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gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
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Roberton has had his role effectively replaced by Wilkie, and others like Paton seem to do ok as well. I'm not concerned there.
As has been suggested, Armitage has been gone for some time. Great in 2015, OK 2016.. then nothing. One of the reasons we slid back.
Its debatable if McCartin was ever best 22, King 2020 may do more than Paddy ever did. His number one pick doesn't mean he was good.

Steven is the big issue. Having Hannebery could help though.

Its like we are treading water though, every time we get someone decent , something happens to one of the other players.

Drafted players are not ready made though.
If a player is leaving this year, we need to have their replacement 3 years ago.

One of the really disappointing things about having a coach that we wanted gone for two years means that list management, drafting and sorting through the list will happen once a new coach comes in. Next year will realistically be a sorting out year, cull players, mould the list how they want it, try kids etc.

Richo pretty much cleared out the side of youth that Watters had assembled. We are treading water for three years and then start to make the tough decisions. I don't think the club realises how desperate fans are for some success, it feels like they are very happy to delay year after year. Injured draftees, slow burns, not making hard decisions on coaches and staff etc.

I hope Lethers less than democratic approaches can at least make thing move with some pace. The campaigners there now are glacial in their movements.
 

sunny3193

Club Legend
Sep 28, 2016
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Drafted players are not ready made though.
If a player is leaving this year, we need to have their replacement 3 years ago.
The four players, in toto, are more than the games they have played this year.
I suppose the thrust of my concern has been more succinctly summarised in your last paragraph.
I should employ you as my ghost writer!
 

Impatient Saint

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Apr 5, 2016
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Probably safe but Phillips has been around for a long time and can't hold his spot. He's that type that's too good for VFL but seems to not be able to step up.
I think he is hard done by constantly getting dropped especially for Newnes and is definitely worth a spot on the list. He just needs to work on his kicking, which I believe all players can improve if they are given the time to work on it. I was never at that level, but had sloppy kicking as a teenager which improved significantly over time. It can be done and Phillips has plenty of other strong attributes.
 

Enclosed_Animal

All Australian
Jun 14, 2015
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Probably safe but Phillips has been around for a long time and can't hold his spot. He's that type that's too good for VFL but seems to not be able to step up.
Not really sure where the "too good for VFL" bit comes from. All the games I have seen (or those I know have seen) in the last 3 years would put him in the best once, maybe twice. Never seen Phillips come anywhere close to dominating the VFL the way Clarke, White, Lonie, Paddy, Hickey etc have.

I see him as a bigger framed but less productive Nick O'Kearney. His output is about on par with Langlands, who is shaky to be retained even as a rookie.

Sure being contracted will get him another year. But saying he is too good for VFL is a pretty massive stretch. Hell saying he had done enough at VFL to warrant a call up is even stretching things to Long / Young type levels!

Dime a dozen footballer who made it this far because he is fitter than everyone else. Quicker we move on from these ordinary types, the quicker we move forward with the list.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
24,320
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Not really sure where the "too good for VFL" bit comes from. All the games I have seen (or those I know have seen) in the last 3 years would put him in the best once, maybe twice. Never seen Phillips come anywhere close to dominating the VFL the way Clarke, White, Lonie, Paddy, Hickey etc have.

I see him as a bigger framed but less productive Nick O'Kearney. His output is about on par with Langlands, who is shaky to be retained even as a rookie.

Sure being contracted will get him another year. But saying he is too good for VFL is a pretty massive stretch. Hell saying he had done enough at VFL to warrant a call up is even stretching things to Long / Young type levels!

Dime a dozen footballer who made it this far because he is fitter than everyone else. Quicker we move on from these ordinary types, the quicker we move forward with the list.
He probably plays his best footy in the seniors, he's ideally a hard running wingman but we have those in spades, what we lack is fast high production good ones. He's better than some not as good as others. He's just not quite good enough to hold a permanent spot. I could see him making the jump but he could just as easily be delisted before that happens.
 

pebblesofsand

Premiership Player
Oct 18, 2011
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He probably plays his best footy in the seniors, he's ideally a hard running wingman but we have those in spades, what we lack is fast high production good ones. He's better than some not as good as others. He's just not quite good enough to hold a permanent spot. I could see him making the jump but he could just as easily be delisted before that happens.
He's contracted for another year so he gets another run. I hope that doesn't mean Langlands misses out.

Phillips is a bit like a less skilled Sinclair but doesn't look like he'd ever start in the square. Dingley looks like he can win a bit of his own ball AND provide some outside run and spread.

Another year and we will know for certain, but on current exposed form if they were both out of contract at the end of the year and I had to choose, I'd keep Langlands.
 

gringo2011

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Nov 12, 2011
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He's contracted for another year so he gets another run. I hope that doesn't mean Langlands misses out.

Phillips is a bit like a less skilled Sinclair but doesn't look like he'd ever start in the square. Dingley looks like he can win a bit of his own ball AND provide some outside run and spread.

Another year and we will know for certain, but on current exposed form if they were both out of contract at the end of the year and I had to choose, I'd keep Langlands.

If we could combine the two it would be ideal. Imagine the skills of Sinclair and the possession tally of Phillips.
 

Impatient Saint

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Surely we will have enough players retire or traded out and wont have to delist any of the kids this year? Perhaps Rice & Langlands are in trouble if he doesnt get a chance soon?

Its the mid term players that are treading water that I would look at trading like Sinclair, Acres & McKenzie? Having said that I would like to see Acres get a block of 4 games playing solely as a mid and I would even try swapping Sinclair with Savage and see how they go in the different roles.
 
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stfan

Premiership Player
Mar 12, 2008
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Surely we will have enough players retire or traded out
Rowe (though is not on our primary list)
Armo
Brown- Though they may keep for one more year

Possible:
White - stiff to be injured when finally given an opportunity
Rice
Phillips

Likely to go due to fitness/health concerns:
(How many will largely determine the fate of some)
Longer
Pierce
Paddy
Robbo (Wish it wasn't so)

Anyone traded.
 

sunny3193

Club Legend
Sep 28, 2016
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Surely we will have enough players retire or traded out and wont have to delist any of the kids this year? Perhaps Rice & Langlands are in trouble if he doesnt get a chance soon?

Its the mid term players that are treading water that I would look at trading like Sinclair, Acres & McKenzie? Having said that I would like to see Acres get a block of 4 games playing solely as a mid and I would even try swapping Sinclair with Savage and see how they go in the different roles.
I’m interested in your thoughts IS.
Let’s assume that Richo steps down after the Geelong game.
And you’re placed in charge as his replacement.
So everything else is unchanged.
You’ve got a block of six games to make a statement.
What do you do?
Two scenarios:
1. The Board wants you to win games as your priority.
2. The Board wants you to get a real measure of the state of the list (I’ll let you interpret that directive as you see fit) as the priority.
Assume the potential of a permanent gig for you from 2020 is not available to you.
Obviously, scenario 1 is completely different to 2.
And the outcomes consequently probably at odds.

I reckon there could be some quite radical statements made.
 

stfan

Premiership Player
Mar 12, 2008
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I’m interested in your thoughts IS.
Let’s assume that Richo steps down after the Geelong game.
And you’re placed in charge as his replacement.
So everything else is unchanged.
You’ve got a block of six games to make a statement.
What do you do?
Two scenarios:
1. The Board wants you to win games as your priority.
2. The Board wants you to get a real measure of the state of the list (I’ll let you interpret that directive as you see fit) as the priority.
Assume the potential of a permanent gig for you from 2020 is not available to you.
Obviously, scenario 1 is completely different to 2.
And the outcomes consequently probably at odds.

I reckon there could be some quite radical statements made.

The only two priorities should be developing and assessing our players.

That can only be done though by playing a solid team each week.

Players like White should be given say 3 or 4 consecutive games to see where they are at, unless the line is already drawn through their name.
 

Gosaints12

Team Captain
Sep 10, 2018
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I’m interested in your thoughts IS.
Let’s assume that Richo steps down after the Geelong game.
And you’re placed in charge as his replacement.
So everything else is unchanged.
You’ve got a block of six games to make a statement.
What do you do?
Two scenarios:
1. The Board wants you to win games as your priority.
2. The Board wants you to get a real measure of the state of the list (I’ll let you interpret that directive as you see fit) as the priority.
Assume the potential of a permanent gig for you from 2020 is not available to you.
Obviously, scenario 1 is completely different to 2.
And the outcomes consequently probably at odds.

I reckon there could be some quite radical statements made.
I’d be trying to win games, but give the youth games.

Coff, Clark, Hind, Parker to run at AFL. White, Langs, Clav to all get a go. If we lose so what.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

BrutThough

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2010
4,610
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Rowe (though is not on our primary list)
Armo
Brown- Though they may keep for one more year

Possible:
White - stiff to be injured when finally given an opportunity
Rice
Phillips

Likely to go due to fitness/health concerns:
(How many will largely determine the fate of some)
Longer
Pierce
Paddy
Robbo (Wish it wasn't so)

Anyone traded.
Phillips is contracted next year so cant be delisted.
 

Impatient Saint

Club Legend
Apr 5, 2016
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I’m interested in your thoughts IS.
Let’s assume that Richo steps down after the Geelong game.
And you’re placed in charge as his replacement.
So everything else is unchanged.
You’ve got a block of six games to make a statement.
What do you do?
Two scenarios:
1. The Board wants you to win games as your priority.
2. The Board wants you to get a real measure of the state of the list (I’ll let you interpret that directive as you see fit) as the priority.
Assume the potential of a permanent gig for you from 2020 is not available to you.
Obviously, scenario 1 is completely different to 2.
And the outcomes consequently probably at odds.

I reckon there could be some quite radical statements made.
Stfan answered your questions Sunny I think you can do both. Have a look at some different players in different set ups and rotations. You are not going to change players habbits in 6 weeks but you can take the shackles off and see where it takes us.

Our two biggest needs remain a lack of midfield rotations and our inability to kick a winning score. So throw the magnets around and see who jumps out, players can show heaps when they are released and not pidgeon holed in certain roles.
 

BrutThough

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2010
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Yeah, he still can. They just have to pay out his contract. That would be about $200k do peanuts in the scheme of things.
Why would Phillips agree to have his contract paid out when he is entitled to another year? And why would the club feel the need to pay out his contract?
 

bergholt

Premiership Player
Mar 14, 2007
4,062
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Brunswick
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Why would Phillips agree to have his contract paid out when he is entitled to another year? And why would the club feel the need to pay out his contract?
He doesn’t need to agree, the Saints wouldn’t be varying his contract, just paying it out early.

Why? If we’ve decided he’s not going to make it then I guess the argument would be that it’s a waste of a list spot.

I doubt that happens but it is possible.
 

BrutThough

Premiership Player
Oct 2, 2010
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He doesn’t need to agree, the Saints wouldn’t be varying his contract, just paying it out early.

Why? If we’ve decided he’s not going to make it then I guess the argument would be that it’s a waste of a list spot.

I doubt that happens but it is possible.
Clubs cant just decide to pay out a player in the middle of their contract because they think the player is a waste of a list spot. The player needs to agree to a contract payout. If they have offered a player a two year contract, then that player has two years on the list whether they play a game or not.

If the player gets into legal trouble or is violating terms within the contract, then they can terminate it but those are extreme circumstances.
 

bergholt

Premiership Player
Mar 14, 2007
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Clubs cant just decide to pay out a player in the middle of their contract because they think the player is a waste of a list spot. The player needs to agree to a contract payout. If they have offered a player a two year contract, then that player has two years on the list whether they play a game or not.

If the player gets into legal trouble or is violating terms within the contract, then they can terminate it but those are extreme circumstances.
I don’t think that’s true. The contract means the money and salary cap contribution, not necessarily a list spot. You could draft someone and delist them immediately if you wanted to, as long as you paid them the cash and it was counted in the salary cap.
 

saintsrfreak

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Aug 15, 2009
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Clubs cant just decide to pay out a player in the middle of their contract because they think the player is a waste of a list spot. The player needs to agree to a contract payout. If they have offered a player a two year contract, then that player has two years on the list whether they play a game or not.

If the player gets into legal trouble or is violating terms within the contract, then they can terminate it but those are extreme circumstances.
It happened with Nicholas Winmar tho remember? He had a year left on his contract and we still delisted him.
 
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