Official Club Stuff 2019 St.Kilda Membership Thread (~28,000 - 26/12/2018)

StCicatriz

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Yeah I've seen the data first hand so it is true. In 2009 we had more members than Richmond did, so were people back then saying Richmond didn't have a large supporter base?

We are a club that can reach 75,000+ members.
I'm sure if we had 3+ decades of multiple flags we'd have massive numbers too.

Sad reality is I think as a club we are appealing to the general public but we don't convert them to paid up members because we always find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Look at the current rebuild. ****** that one all because we couldn't get the head of footy appointment right to drive things from there.

Hopefully with the moorabbin expansion coming to an end there will be a bigger focus on football rather than lobbying for money.

Need to get back to basics here.
 

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George

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I'm sure if we had 3+ decades of multiple flags we'd have massive numbers too.

Sad reality is I think as a club we are appealing to the general public but we don't convert them to paid up members because we always find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Look at the current rebuild. ****** that one all because we couldn't get the head of footy appointment right to drive things from there.

Hopefully with the moorabbin expansion coming to an end there will be a bigger focus on football rather than lobbying for money.

Need to get back to basics here.
Sorry what? Richmond hadn't won a flag for 37 years and had 75,000 members, so I'm not too sure what you mean.
 

Sir Skid

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What scares me is that a lot of what our Sainter of doom StCicatriz said this time last year actually did come to pass!
I fervently hope that this does not happen two years in a row :eek:
I seem to remember someone called Defacto who won Supercoach one of the first years it ran.
 

StCicatriz

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Sorry what? Richmond hadn't won a flag for 37 years and had 75,000 members, so I'm not too sure what you mean.
Their membership base was built on the back of having multiple decades of premiership success. You don't think so?

No different to hawthorn etc.

I'm sure if we had that same history our membership and attendance would be very similar.

Likewise if hawthorn had our history I doubt they'd have the numbers they do now.

Surely you agree with that.

I don't see how that makes me grumpy or in some need of a beverage or any other slight piss take people want to make.

It's the reality of the situation. It's also the argument for equalization that our club made. The reason why the large clubs are big isn't because they are well run now. Likewise the reason why the small clubs are small isn't because they are poorly run now. It's the build up of decades of history and circumstance.

The best way we can turn this around is to ensure we are successful on field. Not just flash in the pan stuff either like the dogs. I'm talking sustained success.

Right now we have been out of finals for 7 hole seasons. Kids have started and finished high school in that time. Others have started and finished primary school. It's far too long. We need to start consistently playing finals.

Until that happens we will always be talking about this sleeping giant of a supporter base.
 
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George

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Thread starter Moderator #212
Their membership base was built on the back of having multiple decades of premiership success. You don't think so?

No different to hawthorn etc.

I'm sure if we had that same history our membership and attendance would be very similar.

Likewise if hawthorn had our history I doubt they'd have the numbers they do now.

Surely you agree with that.

I don't see how that makes me grumpy or in some need of a beverage or any other slight piss take people want to make.

It's the reality of the situation. It's also the argument for equalization that our club made. The reason why the large clubs are big isn't because they are well run now. Likewise the reason why the small clubs are small isn't because they are poorly run now. It's the build up of decades of history and circumstance.

The best way we can turn this around is to ensure we are successful on field. Not just flash in the pan stuff either like the dogs. I'm talking sustained success.

Until that happens we will always be talking about this sleeping giant of a supporter base.
We've actually had more success than most clubs in the AFL era.

I've seen the supporter base figures, we stack up very similar to Richmond.
 

StCicatriz

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We've actually had more success than most clubs in the AFL era.

I've seen the supporter base figures, we stack up very similar to Richmond.
I'm not doubting you that we don't. I believe you and the club. That's not my argument here.

My argument is that we don't convert them to rusted on members because we haven't had sustained success. That's what differentiates us from the Richmond Hawthorn etc.
 

George

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I'm not doubting you that we don't. I believe you and the club. That's not my argument here.

My argument is that we don't convert them to rusted on members because we haven't had sustained success. That's what differentiates us from the Richmond Hawthorn etc.
I don't agree with you. Because clubs like Carlton who also had success in the 70's and 80's can only manage 50,000 members a year.

The real reason Richmond have so many members isn't because of success 40 years ago, it's because they were smart with their member activation programs. From 2010 a lot of young families have moved to suburbs surrounding Richmond and the Tigers have quite simply been brilliant in attracting young families with young kids to sign up.

I think what you think is happening is that young kids who grew up in the 70's saw Richmond win 2 premierships between 70-79, and one in '80, and their kids turned into Richmond supporters and so on, like it has run in the family. I don't think that's necessarily the case either. Richmond haven't been great for a very very long time, Carlton won a flag in '95, were in a Grand Final in '99, and won more than the Tigers did in the 70's & 80's, yet are stuck on 50k members despite having won the most amount of premierships in the league.

We are a big club. Our supporter 'catchment' area is huge. Finnis' isn't joking when he says "from Port Melbourne to Portsea". I think it was 1 in 5 people are Saints supporters along the south-east.

Our real issue is that we haven't been a very well run club at really any point in our history bar right now. Since Matt has stepped in we have seen the off-field growth of the football club grow year on year. Since the AFL era we have been involved in four Grand Finals and played in 12 out of a possible 29 finals series. From 2000 to 2010 we had the most wins of any club. There is enough sustained success there to bring supporters on board but because of our poorly run administration we haven't capitalised on it at all.

I don't think premierships really do make that much of a difference if I'm brutally honest. Look at Carlton, North Melbourne and to a lesser extent the Western Bulldogs. It's really done nothing for them.

What hurts right now is that we should be right up there with the heavyweights of the competition. It should really be the "big five". Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond, Carlton and us. After the decade we had from 2000 to 2010 we should be at 75,000 members by now.

But we will get there. That I have no doubt. We had 30,000 members when Matt took over. Within the next two to three years we will be pushing near on 55,000. It's a huge increase and the professionalism & quality that the club is run at right now is evident. It took Richmond 9 years to grow their supporter base from 35,000 to 75,000 (4,450 increase per year). If by 2020 we have 55,000 members we would be running at an increase of around 4000 a year as well.

If Matt stays in the role, or develops a foundation within the club that can still operate as efficiently then by 2025 we will have 75,000 members - irrespective of results. And that's the key. Creating a membership base that is sustained irrespective of results.
 

gringo2011

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I don't agree with you. Because clubs like Carlton who also had success in the 70's and 80's can only manage 50,000 members a year.

The real reason Richmond have so many members isn't because of success 40 years ago, it's because they were smart with their member activation programs. From 2010 a lot of young families have moved to suburbs surrounding Richmond and the Tigers have quite simply been brilliant in attracting young families with young kids to sign up.

I think what you think is happening is that young kids who grew up in the 70's saw Richmond win 2 premierships between 70-79, and one in '80, and their kids turned into Richmond supporters and so on, like it has run in the family. I don't think that's necessarily the case either. Richmond haven't been great for a very very long time, Carlton won a flag in '95, were in a Grand Final in '99, and won more than the Tigers did in the 70's & 80's, yet are stuck on 50k members despite having won the most amount of premierships in the league.

We are a big club. Our supporter 'catchment' area is huge. Finnis' isn't joking when he says "from Port Melbourne to Portsea". I think it was 1 in 5 people are Saints supporters along the south-east.

Our real issue is that we haven't been a very well run club at really any point in our history bar right now. Since Matt has stepped in we have seen the off-field growth of the football club grow year on year. Since the AFL era we have been involved in four Grand Finals and played in 12 out of a possible 29 finals series. From 2000 to 2010 we had the most wins of any club. There is enough sustained success there to bring supporters on board but because of our poorly run administration we haven't capitalised on it at all.

I don't think premierships really do make that much of a difference if I'm brutally honest. Look at Carlton, North Melbourne and to a lesser extent the Western Bulldogs. It's really done nothing for them.

What hurts right now is that we should be right up there with the heavyweights of the competition. It should really be the "big five". Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond, Carlton and us. After the decade we had from 2000 to 2010 we should be at 75,000 members by now.

But we will get there. That I have no doubt. We had 30,000 members when Matt took over. Within the next two to three years we will be pushing near on 55,000. It's a huge increase and the professionalism & quality that the club is run at right now is evident. It took Richmond 9 years to grow their supporter base from 35,000 to 75,000 (4,450 increase per year). If by 2020 we have 55,000 members we would be running at an increase of around 4000 a year as well.

If Matt stays in the role, or develops a foundation within the club that can still operate as efficiently then by 2025 we will have 75,000 members - irrespective of results. And that's the key. Creating a membership base that is sustained irrespective of results.
I think the way we run memberships now helps our growth. Roll over memberships take away any chance of leaving for lots of us. Compared to the 1990s when they were like a closed club it's a world away. I bought my first St Kilda membership in the SOS campaign in the 1990s. It took about 4 tries to get anyone to send out a paper form and then you had to take it into the club and pay for it in person. Around that time it was like they didn't want members. Then they got smart and had the booths to buy it at the ground in the Wizzard cup matches and that got free entry into the preseason matches. It progressed a lot to the point it's at today.
 

saint66au

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Good discussion..my query is though, if we had/have all this huge latent supporter base (Port to Portsea etc etc)...why didnt we have 50,000-60,000 members when we DID have sustained success (if finals without a flag can be called that, but thats another debate). I think its twofold. One, we didnt actually win the damn thing, and two the Club stank off-field for one reason or another. A flag however would have seen people forgive a multitude of sins
 

StCicatriz

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I don't agree with you. Because clubs like Carlton who also had success in the 70's and 80's can only manage 50,000 members a year.

The real reason Richmond have so many members isn't because of success 40 years ago, it's because they were smart with their member activation programs. From 2010 a lot of young families have moved to suburbs surrounding Richmond and the Tigers have quite simply been brilliant in attracting young families with young kids to sign up.

I think what you think is happening is that young kids who grew up in the 70's saw Richmond win 2 premierships between 70-79, and one in '80, and their kids turned into Richmond supporters and so on, like it has run in the family. I don't think that's necessarily the case either. Richmond haven't been great for a very very long time, Carlton won a flag in '95, were in a Grand Final in '99, and won more than the Tigers did in the 70's & 80's, yet are stuck on 50k members despite having won the most amount of premierships in the league.

We are a big club. Our supporter 'catchment' area is huge. Finnis' isn't joking when he says "from Port Melbourne to Portsea". I think it was 1 in 5 people are Saints supporters along the south-east.

Our real issue is that we haven't been a very well run club at really any point in our history bar right now. Since Matt has stepped in we have seen the off-field growth of the football club grow year on year. Since the AFL era we have been involved in four Grand Finals and played in 12 out of a possible 29 finals series. From 2000 to 2010 we had the most wins of any club. There is enough sustained success there to bring supporters on board but because of our poorly run administration we haven't capitalised on it at all.

I don't think premierships really do make that much of a difference if I'm brutally honest. Look at Carlton, North Melbourne and to a lesser extent the Western Bulldogs. It's really done nothing for them.

What hurts right now is that we should be right up there with the heavyweights of the competition. It should really be the "big five". Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond, Carlton and us. After the decade we had from 2000 to 2010 we should be at 75,000 members by now.

But we will get there. That I have no doubt. We had 30,000 members when Matt took over. Within the next two to three years we will be pushing near on 55,000. It's a huge increase and the professionalism & quality that the club is run at right now is evident. It took Richmond 9 years to grow their supporter base from 35,000 to 75,000 (4,450 increase per year). If by 2020 we have 55,000 members we would be running at an increase of around 4000 a year as well.

If Matt stays in the role, or develops a foundation within the club that can still operate as efficiently then by 2025 we will have 75,000 members - irrespective of results. And that's the key. Creating a membership base that is sustained irrespective of results.
i can't agree. i do think the sustained success forms a base and i think more the influence of the supporters around them that have seen it that make it easier to convert them into members. basically its the whole argument for equalisation that i agree with. the argument that because a club is small is often the build of what came before it rather than what is occurring now and that a large club that is poorly run can get by and is insulated from poor decisions more so than a small club.

so using your example of carlton. 50k is a massive number for where they are at. its more than we have ever had. now imagine if carlton were well run. imagine how many they would have. they're at their absolute lowest, extremely poorly run and they still have 50k. if we had the same administration and approach we would not crack 40k. probably not even 35k. hell lets go with the 30k number you gave. lets compare that result with where carlton are now and its a massive 20k difference. you are comparing a club who as you put it, although i disagree, "we haven't been a very well run club at really any point in our history bar right now". a club with a good administration to that of one which arguably has its worst administration in the history of its club, and they're out performing us by default without any effort pretty much. i think our membership team are absolutely smashing it right now but they can't outperform the shitfest that is carlton.

i dont think we are well run, but i dont think we are carlton levels of bad here. they're just abysmal. i rate their coach, but everything else is an absolute mess. but they consistently out perform us membership wise because they have the base of sustained succes.

its also no coincidence that the biggest clubs in melbourne are the ones with the premierships that spanned multiple decades. splash some finals on that base and the numbers spike. i firmly believe the reason richmond were so big is because they had that base. you splash optimism and finals on it and look at it take off:
1546569711547.png


gale took over in 2009. watch those numbers majorly spike when they start climbing the ladder (dont underestimate the sell of as young list from a draft back then that starts winning some games) and then hit finals. look at the impact from winning a flag. their biggest spike is when they get the cup. 28k. thats huge! now look at the low. 6 years out of finals. no cup. an absolute mess in 2007 and they still crack 30k. our membership numbers in 2007 after a pretty good period leading up to it. lots of optimism. 30k. so i think the difference is because of the base behind them they have a larger number of rusted on types. they have a base more easily "activated".

i mean look at the impact on melbourne. look at hawthorn pre their flags, to how theyve gone past then. look at the impact on our own club. you want that membership number to hit 50k off the back of 2 decades of being poorly run, then you need a long period of sustained success behind it. it's how you weather the storm and build up influence.

i think you nailed it here: "After the decade we had from 2000 to 2010 we should be at 75,000 members by now.". so why isnt that the case? add another decade in, so lets go from 1990 to 2010. i think its because it was two decades of good football with some lows in there that was pretty insular without any ultimate success. with no sustained success behind it. a supporter group that expects st kilda to shoot itself in the foot and to ultimately fail. little confidence in how its run and the decisions it makes.

now lets suppose we won the flag in 1970. 3 in 1980, instead of being utterly shite. we snagged the one in 1997. then went on to win in 2004, 2009 and 2010. got close in 2005. i have no doubt what so ever in my mind that we would have had 50k members when matt took over. the mentality within the supporter base would be completely different. people would be more engage because its more rewarding and entertaining. they get rusted on. they have more faith in the club. you dont lose them. they are more easily activated and sold an optimistic line that converts to membership.

if we want to be richmond or hawthorn then we need to start making sure we have sustained success on field.
 

George

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i can't agree. i do think the sustained success forms a base and i think more the influence of the supporters around them that have seen it that make it easier to convert them into members. basically its the whole argument for equalisation that i agree with. the argument that because a club is small is often the build of what came before it rather than what is occurring now and that a large club that is poorly run can get by and is insulated from poor decisions more so than a small club.

so using your example of carlton. 50k is a massive number for where they are at. its more than we have ever had. now imagine if carlton were well run. imagine how many they would have. they're at their absolute lowest, extremely poorly run and they still have 50k. if we had the same administration and approach we would not crack 40k. probably not even 35k. hell lets go with the 30k number you gave. lets compare that result with where carlton are now and its a massive 20k difference. you are comparing a club who as you put it, although i disagree, "we haven't been a very well run club at really any point in our history bar right now". a club with a good administration to that of one which arguably has its worst administration in the history of its club, and they're out performing us by default without any effort pretty much. i think our membership team are absolutely smashing it right now but they can't outperform the shitfest that is carlton.

i dont think we are well run, but i dont think we are carlton levels of bad here. they're just abysmal. i rate their coach, but everything else is an absolute mess. but they consistently out perform us membership wise because they have the base of sustained succes.

its also no coincidence that the biggest clubs in melbourne are the ones with the premierships that spanned multiple decades. splash some finals on that base and the numbers spike. i firmly believe the reason richmond were so big is because they had that base. you splash optimism and finals on it and look at it take off:
View attachment 601203

gale took over in 2009. watch those numbers majorly spike when they start climbing the ladder (dont underestimate the sell of as young list from a draft back then that starts winning some games) and then hit finals. look at the impact from winning a flag. their biggest spike is when they get the cup. 28k. thats huge! now look at the low. 6 years out of finals. no cup. an absolute mess in 2007 and they still crack 30k. our membership numbers in 2007 after a pretty good period leading up to it. lots of optimism. 30k. so i think the difference is because of the base behind them they have a larger number of rusted on types. they have a base more easily "activated".

i mean look at the impact on melbourne. look at hawthorn pre their flags, to how theyve gone past then. look at the impact on our own club. you want that membership number to hit 50k off the back of 2 decades of being poorly run, then you need a long period of sustained success behind it. it's how you weather the storm and build up influence.

i think you nailed it here: "After the decade we had from 2000 to 2010 we should be at 75,000 members by now.". so why isnt that the case? add another decade in, so lets go from 1990 to 2010. i think its because it was two decades of good football with some lows in there that was pretty insular without any ultimate success. with no sustained success behind it. a supporter group that expects st kilda to shoot itself in the foot and to ultimately fail. little confidence in how its run and the decisions it makes.

now lets suppose we won the flag in 1970. 3 in 1980, instead of being utterly shite. we snagged the one in 1997. then went on to win in 2004, 2009 and 2010. got close in 2005. i have no doubt what so ever in my mind that we would have had 50k members when matt took over. the mentality within the supporter base would be completely different. people would be more engage because its more rewarding and entertaining. they get rusted on. they have more faith in the club. you dont lose them. they are more easily activated and sold an optimistic line that converts to membership.

if we want to be richmond or hawthorn then we need to start making sure we have sustained success on field.
Good post mate but I don't agree that the reason we don't have more members now is because of not winning a flag/having "success". We have been poorly run for a long time. Club basically shut the supporters out during 08-11.

Anyway we can agree to disagree, you make some good points obviously and can't argue with those, but I guess we just have different views as to why/how these results came to be.
 

Diehard Saint

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Good post mate but I don't agree that the reason we don't have more members now is because of not winning a flag/having "success". We have been poorly run for a long time. Club basically shut the supporters out during 08-11.

Anyway we can agree to disagree, you make some good points obviously and can't argue with those, but I guess we just have different views as to why/how these results came to be.
Any membership update George?
 

StCicatriz

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Good post mate but I don't agree that the reason we don't have more members now is because of not winning a flag/having "success". We have been poorly run for a long time. Club basically shut the supporters out during 08-11.

Anyway we can agree to disagree, you make some good points obviously and can't argue with those, but I guess we just have different views as to why/how these results came to be.
lets hope we get what i want anyway

i doubt anyone will be unhappy with a long period of sustained success. even me.
 

DGontheQT

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Whilst the club may have made progress , it still needs to clean up their act on supporter engagement.
They are shockingly poor at providing information too , and that could facilitate such engagement.
Get that right , and together with improvement on field , the supporters will flock back.
 

saint66au

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Good post mate but I don't agree that the reason we don't have more members now is because of not winning a flag/having "success". We have been poorly run for a long time. Club basically shut the supporters out during 08-11.

Anyway we can agree to disagree, you make some good points obviously and can't argue with those, but I guess we just have different views as to why/how these results came to be.
Yes the "Bubble" mentality of that era hurt without question. "You'll thank us when we get you a flag"..well you didnt and now its still biting us on the bum years later
 
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