Prediction 2019 Starting 22

Milux

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After the session I attended last week i noticed Adam's probably did at best 40% of the running. I'd have Walker and Eagles ahead at this stage to play round 1. Couldn't justify playing an underdone injury prone player over 2 players completing a pre season. Still alot of water to go under the bridge.
 

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My team, touch rationale, touch intuition!

FB: Christensen Skinner Gardiner.
HB: Rich Andrews Bailey.
C: McCluggage Witherden Cutler.
HF: Cameron Adams Rayner.
FF: McStay Hipwood Zorko.
Foll: Martin, Berry, Neale

INT: Hodge, Lyons, McInerney, Robinson.
Emg: Smith, Cox, Taylor, McCarthy
 

Tom14

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After the session I attended last week i noticed Adam's probably did at best 40% of the running. I'd have Walker and Eagles ahead at this stage to play round 1. Couldn't justify playing an underdone injury prone player over 2 players completing a pre season. Still alot of water to go under the bridge.
Sure, but ruling him out of your 22 because he didn't do a full running load in late November/early December seems pretty premature too. Wouldn't surprise me if the club doesn't want him doing a full load just yet and I don't think that means he won't be fit for round 1.
 

Milux

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Sure, but ruling him out of your 22 because he didn't do a full running load in late November/early December seems pretty premature too. Wouldn't surprise me if the club doesn't want him doing a full load just yet and I don't think that means he won't be fit for round 1.
I didn't rule Adam's out completely. Just for mine Walker and Eagles are ahead. Adam's did look in ok shape though.
 
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If anyone put Eagles in there best 22..... Shouldn't be anywhere near best 22 if we are pushing for finals.
The same can be said for McStay in regards to a Finals team.

But, i liked what i saw of Eagles and think he could turn into a very serviceable key back. Runs, jumps, is aggressive. Remember Merrett?

And, McStay is a year older, and with an improved year from Hippy and Big O, he could indeed turn out to be the third tall we need.
 
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Nunez

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The same can be said for McStay.

But, i liked what i saw of Eagles and think he could turn into a very serviceable key back. Runs, jumps, is aggressive. Remember Merrett?
How can the same be said for McStay? He's clearly viewed as best 22 by the club and most fans?
 
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How can the same be said for McStay? He's clearly viewed as best 22 by the club and most fans?
Clearly? Not in my eyes. The only reason we persisted with him last year was because we didn't have another option. The young kids aren't ready. He single handedly lost us two games last year - missed sitters, we lost by under a goal. Not good enough for a bloke mid-20s now.

His goal kicking is woeful, and he very rarely impacts the contest. Sure, he takes 1 or 2 decent marks a game, but rarely converts.

I believe we tolerate him because we're desperate for him to succeed. But he consistently under delivers. Time will tell.
 

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Clearly? Not in my eyes. The only reason we persisted with him last year was because we didn't have another option. The young kids aren't ready. He single handedly lost us two games last year - missed sitters, we lost by under a goal. Not good enough for a bloke mid-20s now.

His goal kicking is woeful, and he very rarely impacts the contest. Sure, he takes 1 or 2 decent marks a game, but rarely converts.

I believe we tolerate him because we're desperate for him to succeed. But he consistently under delivers. Time will tell.
Quoting one word of a sentence doesn't really paint the full picture mate. If you were to ask Fagan, Noble etc if they see McStay as best 22 they would laugh and say of course.

Does he have areas to improve? Yes, like practically in our best 22.

As you mentioned, his kicking and impacting contests were not up to standard for a part. He was dropped, trained with a kicking coach and returned a much better overall prospect. All of his stats improved. His defensive work was much better. His constested marking improved. He averaged 1.5 goals a game which was a scratch under Hipwood which for a second forward you'd certainly take.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think you'll find the club rates Dan highly and will be pushing to re-sign him ASAP because we see him as a best 22 KPF for years to come.
 

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Clearly? Not in my eyes. The only reason we persisted with him last year was because we didn't have another option. The young kids aren't ready. He single handedly lost us two games last year - missed sitters, we lost by under a goal. Not good enough for a bloke mid-20s now.

His goal kicking is woeful, and he very rarely impacts the contest. Sure, he takes 1 or 2 decent marks a game, but rarely converts.

I believe we tolerate him because we're desperate for him to succeed. But he consistently under delivers. Time will tell.
Writing off a 23 year old (mid 20s?) but saying someone who will be 29 before next season could turn into a serviceable key back. Seems strange to me.

I don’t believe McStay will ever consistently kick 50 goals in a season but I believe he can be part of a forward line that regularly kicks decent scores. With the option to swing him down back as well.
 

Milux

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If anyone put Eagles in there best 22..... Shouldn't be anywhere near best 22 if we are pushing for finals.
Do yourself a favour and go back to what I first said about Eagles. Round 1 is along way from finals.

From what limited game time we seen of eagles I thought he was very impressive. I seen a hungry, angry hard it 27 year old making the most out of a chance to live everyone's dream.

I think in his last game (injured his shoulder) he made one effort to spoil/attack the ball and the impact hurt his shoulder. He got up and made a 60 m sprint to the next and impacted that aswell. Sometimes determination can be the most powerful thing.

I'm not saying Eagles is finals ready. But if he can take his opportunity and play 15-20 games next year alot will be surprised.
 

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Writing off a 23 year old (mid 20s?) but saying someone who will be 29 before next season could turn into a serviceable key back. Seems strange to me.

I don’t believe McStay will ever consistently kick 50 goals in a season but I believe he can be part of a forward line that regularly kicks decent scores. With the option to swing him down back as well.
Did you wake up hangry? Where did i write him off? What is 23 if not mid-20s? I will give all our players every chance to succeed and will be the first and loudest to say i was wrong when they do. All i'm saying is that right now, if I wrote down a best-22 prototype to impact finals, McStay as a third tall would be one of the serious question marks. Let alone CHF where most in this thread seems to be picking him!

His position is too vital to a teams success at that level, and if we were Hawthorn or Sydney or Geelong we would be looking to trade in an upgrade on what he has shown to date. We obviously don't have that luxury, so we work with what we've got. As a third tall he consistently missing chances an amateur would slot, which cost us junk games, let alone Finals games. Getting bodied out of contests, or not even making contests is basically a goal the other way in finals footy. I watch him closely every game, and right now he has much more improvement to make up than what he showed in the last couple of games, as mentioned by Nunez . That is my point. I'm not saying he's the only one, but he comes to mind when referencing another Key Position player ala Eagles. Yes Eagles is 28, but so what? He could play his position until he is 32, when we should be playing finals, and i see him as someone who has shown equal amounts to McStay in his one year.
 

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On McStay..... I have this impression (not based on any clear data) that he has played his best during games when our mid field is on top or at least breaking even. As the delivery into the forward line deteriorates McStay appears to get a bit lost and his impact on the game decreases. I guess he is not a natural forward and is not able to generate scores from haphazard delivery or to change the course of a game like great forwards do.

I hope he is being coached to improve this understanding of this aspect of his game which to me is more of a problem than his kicking. Also if our structures improve and we win more contested football I hope/expect him to stay in the game longer. Confidence builds competency which in turn builds confidence. I think he is serviceable at the moment but has the athelitic ability to to be a very serviceable third forward which I guess is why the club are persisting with him in the role.

Just my two cents worth...
 

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McStay's biggest problem (other than his goalkicking) is he doesn't offer much around the ground.

He has all the tools to be a solid lead up CHF/flanker yet continually looks for the "easy" option of having the ball kicked over the back to him and/or attempt a speccie on someone's shoulders.

Now whether that's laziness or just not being a natural forward, until this part of his game improves I only ever see him as that flashy, inconsistent type forward.

Edit. But like others have said he's not alone in terms of having things to improve on if we want to start climbing that ladder.
 

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Did you wake up hangry? Where did i write him off? What is 23 if not mid-20s? I will give all our players every chance to succeed and will be the first and loudest to say i was wrong when they do. All i'm saying is that right now, if I wrote down a best-22 prototype to impact finals, McStay as a third tall would be one of the serious question marks. Let alone CHF where most in this thread seems to be picking him!

His position is too vital to a teams success at that level, and if we were Hawthorn or Sydney or Geelong we would be looking to trade in an upgrade on what he has shown to date. We obviously don't have that luxury, so we work with what we've got. As a third tall he consistently missing chances an amateur would slot, which cost us junk games, let alone Finals games. Getting bodied out of contests, or not even making contests is basically a goal the other way in finals footy. I watch him closely every game, and right now he has much more improvement to make up than what he showed in the last couple of games, as mentioned by Nunez . That is my point. I'm not saying he's the only one, but he comes to mind when referencing another Key Position player ala Eagles. Yes Eagles is 28, but so what? He could play his position until he is 32, when we should be playing finals, and i see him as someone who has shown equal amounts to McStay in his one year.
For our next finals push we’ll have Hipwood, Rayner, Cameron and possibly Zorko and other resting mids on top of McStay. Sure it would be great to have Tom Lynch but I don’t think we need another A grade tall to be a top team. When we have the midfield capable to make us a top 4 team then McStay could easily be a 2 goal a game forward like Darling or other second talls.

Part of being serviceable I’d say would be contributing for more than a few years. Eagles will just be a backup for another year and then find another career.
 

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I'm not confident on Eagles at all. Love his endeavour and enthusiasm but he's near last in our KPP stocks in my opinion. Doesn't keep his feet well enough and, for his size, I thought he got out-muscled too often. He definitely shows glimpses of being something better and, if he was 21, I'd be a lot more bullish that, with time and development, he'd turn out OK. But I think the combination of his age, current weaknesses and improving competition for spots among our talls will see him a fair way off senior footy next season.

If he proves me wrong, then I'm fine with that because he is pretty fun to watch!
 

Milux

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I'm not confident on Eagles at all. Love his endeavour and enthusiasm but he's near last in our KPP stocks in my opinion. Doesn't keep his feet well enough and, for his size, I thought he got out-muscled too often. He definitely shows glimpses of being something better and, if he was 21, I'd be a lot more bullish that, with time and development, he'd turn out OK. But I think the combination of his age, current weaknesses and improving competition for spots among our talls will see him a fair way off senior footy next season.

If he proves me wrong, then I'm fine with that because he is pretty fun to watch!
He is definitely pushing the proverbial up the hill to get there.
 

Tom14

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McStay's biggest problem (other than his goalkicking) is he doesn't offer much around the ground.

He has all the tools to be a solid lead up CHF/flanker yet continually looks for the "easy" option of having the ball kicked over the back to him and/or attempt a speccie on someone's shoulders.

Now whether that's laziness or just not being a natural forward, until this part of his game improves I only ever see him as that flashy, inconsistent type forward.

Edit. But like others have said he's not alone in terms of having things to improve on if we want to start climbing that ladder.
This one makes me laugh because it really isn't true and Hippy has been a far worse offender in terms of looking for the easy ball over the back (he did start to improve this late this year). McStay's game against geelong is a pretty good indicator that he can offer things up the ground - he had 9 marks and 14 touches, pretty much all of those were before half time when we were competitive with them.

McStay does things that none of our other key forward options come close to doing and is an absolute lock for best 22. He's a priority re-signing for me too because Vic clubs will come extremely hard for him at the end of next year if we don't lock him up - e.g. the dogs would kill to have his contested marking ability.
 
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This one makes me laugh because it really isn't true and Hippy has been a far worse offender in terms of looking for the easy ball over the back (he did start to improve this late this year). McStay's game against geelong is a pretty good indicator that he can offer things up the ground - he had 9 marks and 14 touches, pretty much all of those were before half time when we were competitive with them.

McStay does things that none of our other key forward options come close to doing and is an absolute lock for best 22. He's a priority re-signing for me too because Vic clubs will come extremely hard for him at the end of next year if we don't lock him up - e.g. the dogs would kill to have his contested marking ability.
Being a Best 22 thread, where on the ground do you have him as a lock? His best game by far was against the Cats as you say, taking 9 marks - double his average output. No doubt his key attribute is he can hold a mark. After that he went goalless against GC, which we won and North, and got a couple against the Pies, playing deeper.

What does he do no one else can? And, do you think he can in the next 12 months do them as well as say De Goey, Stringer, Gray, and even Gunston and Darling who are similar size playing CHF?
Personally, I don't think he is a lock as a forward pocket Third Tall, or as a CHF. Maybe he plays as an up the ground third tall flanker, next to Hippy, with smalls everywhere else. No doubt we are one Key Forward short, hence the discussion. That's where if we can get one or two of Ballenden, Big O, Paine or Fullerton to step up in the next two years our Finals forward line is looking alot more potent.

2020 Potentially
McStay Hipwood Cameron
Rayner Big O/Ball Zorko
 

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My understanding is that Dan McStay is one of the most professional at the club in regards to his preparation for games.
The bloke goes out of his way to make himself better and that is all that Chris Fagan asks for and I really don’t think we can ask for any more either.
He is on the brink of a break out season and if he starts the year well, anything can happen.
He will be best 22 at the start of the year and if he plays well he will remain there.
 

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This one makes me laugh because it really isn't true and Hippy has been a far worse offender in terms of looking for the easy ball over the back (he did start to improve this late this year). McStay's game against geelong is a pretty good indicator that he can offer things up the ground - he had 9 marks and 14 touches, pretty much all of those were before half time when we were competitive with them.

McStay does things that none of our other key forward options come close to doing and is an absolute lock for best 22. He's a priority re-signing for me too because Vic clubs will come extremely hard for him at the end of next year if we don't lock him up - e.g. the dogs would kill to have his contested marking ability.
Agreed. Some people need to remember it takes what 5 or 6 seasons for a Key forward to consistently impact games. I think that is where he is now, however he has been played down back for half his career. So l don't necessarily think he will have a breakout year this year (I hope he does). However, with a better midfield than last year - due to additions of Neale and Lyons) - he will be getting a lot more opportunity.
 

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Interesting on the latest Roar Deal that Connor McFadyen was saying he has played very little midfield during his time in the game, he has mainly played as that 3rd tall type and compares himself to Tom Lynch (Crows) in terms of style of play.

He comes across as confident and is very well spoken.
 

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Interesting on the latest Roar Deal that Connor McFadyen was saying he has played very little midfield during his time in the game, he has mainly played as that 3rd tall type and compares himself to Tom Lynch (Crows) in terms of style of play.

He comes across as confident and is very well spoken.
Interesting also that both Geelong and Richmond after the Champs told him that they would take him with with their first pick.
 

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I remember reading posts about McStay during the Leppa coaching years that Dan was happy to stay a lion because there was no real competition for his spot and he liked that. Obviously things have changed under Fagan in that regard but I think we still see through his goal kicking yips that he has a lot self doubt that creeps in. I still think he will be a solid player but it is clearly something that him and the club will need to be continually working on to get the best out of him.
 

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McStay's biggest problem (other than his goalkicking) is he doesn't offer much around the ground.

He has all the tools to be a solid lead up CHF/flanker yet continually looks for the "easy" option of having the ball kicked over the back to him and/or attempt a speccie on someone's shoulders.

Now whether that's laziness or just not being a natural forward, until this part of his game improves I only ever see him as that flashy, inconsistent type forward.

Edit. But like others have said he's not alone in terms of having things to improve on if we want to start climbing that ladder.
This doesn’t gel at all with my impression from McStay this past season. I distinctly remember him leading up the ground on many occasions and offering a target for our mids transitioning out of defence. Far more often than Hipwood.
 
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