Prediction 2019 Starting 22

[a mayes ing]

Who backs up Steph in the ruck? I don’t think McStay is up to it. I think Walker would be a better option than McStay if you are only playing one ruckman,and imo is as good as McStay as a forward anyway,and a better kick.

Good point, hadn't thought about that. I still prefer McStay over Walker as l just think he is on the cusp of breaking out, where as Walker is a "safe" bet in that we know what he can do but he never will be that forward we have been looking for, imo of course.

Tbh, l am not sure. I don't like the idea of 3 key forwards as l think it makes us too slow. I think Martin can ruck most of the game and if it is like only a chop out (e.g. 5-10% then McStay might be able to do it.).

 

[winged1]

Good point, hadn't thought about that. I still prefer McStay over Walker as l just think he is on the cusp of breaking out, where as Walker is a "safe" bet in that we know what he can do but he never will be that forward we have been looking for, imo of course.

Tbh, l am not sure. I don't like the idea of 3 key forwards as l think it makes us too slow. I think Martin can ruck most of the game and if it is like only a chop out (e.g. 5-10% then McStay might be able to do it.).

Oscar is ahead of both, our centre work is better with him there and he is just as dangerous as a fwd. Walker should play back. McStay needs to find some consistency

 

[carnaroys08]

Full Back: Luke Hodge Marcus Adams Darcy Gardiner
Half Back Alex Witherden Harris Andrews Allen Christensen
Centre: Tom Cutler Jarrod Berry Hugh McCluggage
Half Forward: Charlie Cameron Eric Hipwood Dayne Zorko
Full Forward: Lincoln McCarthy Daniel McStay Cam Rayner
Ruck: Steph Martin Lachie Neale Jarrod Lyons
Int: Daniel Rich Lewis Taylor Nick Robertson Zac Bailey

Next cab off rank (mids): Rhys Mathieson, Mitch Robinson Ryan Lester, Cedric Cox, Brandon Starcevich, Jacob Allison
(forwards): Josh Walker, Toby Wooler, Connor Ballenden, Sam Skinner
(defenders): Josh Walker, Jack Payne, Sam Skinner
(Rucks): Oscar McInerny, Archie Smith


Reasoning:
Backline:
Christensen - In the back to provide more run. Doesn't do a lot up forward so killing 2 birds with 1 stone.
Adams - I went with him over Walker as Adams is much better 1 on 1 and imo a better interceptor.
Rest is pretty straight forward.

Midfield:
Neale and Lyons - In the ruck ups due to them being seriously good contested and clearance players. Would hope Berry, Rayner goes in as well.
Bailey - I wanted to put Mitch Robinson in but it was a toss up with him and Bailey and l feel like we aren't going to be pushed around anymore. Bailey provides more with his express speed.
McInerny - I didn't put him up there due to already having 2 key forwards. I felt like having another one compromised our ability to keep it in our fwd 50. Would hope he still gets game time sometime in the season.
Taylor - I put him in as he is a good link u player from def 50 to fwd 50

Forwards:
McCarthy - He continues to get contracts form Geelong despite being injured all the time which says something. However, he does need to show it in the preseason, otherwise he goes out for Mitch Robinson or a Starcevich.
Rayner - I put him at full forward but l would want him going into centre bounces some of the time.

Nice team & like some of your reasoning.
You don't think we're going to get pushed around anymore? Getting physical against a young team would be pretty high on the agenda of opposition coaches I'd think; that would make Robinson a must. Martin to Ruck solo is a bit of a stretch; the Big O received a nice contract extension, was never dropped once he debuted R6 & was also part of our 3 talls in the forward line tactic. The team played 3 tall inexperienced forward most of last year & we couldn't get enough goals out of them. It's difficult to imagine Fagan playing with less talls up forward therefor making things more difficult for Hipwood & McStay. You could be on the money if the game plan is moved more towards manic pressure to trap the ball in by quick smaller forwards like the Tigers plan. Adams at Full Back is a common & confusing theme amongst supporters; when one considers all the dialog that points to him not playing FB.
No matter how things pan out, the variety of teams listed by supporters is testament to the quality of the depth in our list. I reckon this is the strongest list, in terms of depth, the Brisbane Lions have ever had. It's not difficult to imagine McCluggage, Berry, Rayner, Witherden, Hipwood, Gardiner & Adams developing into genuine A graders. Along side current A graders Zorko, Neale, Andrews & Lyons; I think the list would be the strongest the Brisbane Lions have ever had. There are legitimate reasons why the Club is comparing this group with the Three peat era.

*edit
Ps: This is the year to buy a membership with the "September Membership" add on It's only an extra $40.

 

[a mayes ing]

Oscar is ahead of both, our centre work is better with him there and he is just as dangerous as a fwd. Walker should play back. McStay needs to find some consistency

that is debatable. Oscar played 16 games for 14 goals so less than a goal a game, whereas McStay played 21 games for 22 goals and the 1st several games he was being played as a defender.
However, l do agree that we might need McInerny in to help decrease the load on Martin, maybe we could play Hipwood further up the ground, however he is our leading goalkicker so we don't want to lose too many goals from him. Tough decision for the coaching group

 

[carnaroys08]

maybe we could play Hipwood further up the ground,

This list is so flexible, Hipwood leading up the ground is a viable option. It's exciting to think of the all different set ups Fagan & Co. have at their disposal.

 

[Jivlain]

that is debatable. Oscar played 16 games for 14 goals so less than a goal a game, whereas McStay played 21 games for 22 goals and the 1st several games he was being played as a defender.
However, l do agree that we might need McInerny in to help decrease the load on Martin, maybe we could play Hipwood further up the ground, however he is our leading goalkicker so we don't want to lose too many goals from him. Tough decision for the coaching group

My feeling is that Oscar brings the ball down to the potential advantage of our smalls more often. And probably gets infringed against a fair bit more too, even if they’re rarely paid just yet.

 

[carnaroys08]

Notice a few sides with no taylor in them or mention of very interesting I can't see McCarthy taking his spot just yet will need to prove fitness first Squizzy starts round 1 imo

Taylor's position in this improving team is interesting and worth a look at. I think he might be on a hiding to nothing next year as far as staying at the Lions; doesn't mean he won't have a super 2019 by the way. I'll explain that later. A NAB Rising Star, no question he's a quality player. Taylor will be 24 when next season starts. One would reasonably expect him to be still improving as a player. It's true & does not go unnoticed that Taylor spent the first three years of his career with a Club which was a basket case. No doubt in my mind, Taylor was not given quality football development under Leppitsch.
When Fagan was appointed after the 2016 season, things changed dramatically for the better. Under Fagan, Taylor's goal kicking has improved significantly, 17 goals 13 behinds in 2016, 17/15 in 2017, 22/7 in 2018. Since Fagan took over as coach, Taylor has been named & played in every regular season game, he's durable & getting a good go. This season gone, he was named as a starting forward twice, on the wing ten times & on the bench ten times. When new players come in to a side are bench starters normally the ones who are dropped?
Things that concern me as a supporter are his 2017/2018 year on year tackles per game were down ca. 23% putting him at the same average tackles per game as in his first year, his goal assists were down 33% coupled with a small dip in score assists, his meters gained were down ca. 25% & his turnovers were up 15%. Some (not all) of these stats may have an explanation & may be outside of Taylors control, eg: other players are kicking inaccurately when he feeds them. We simply don't if that's the case or not; but it could be. Taylors KPI's for 2017/2018 (the ones the public get to see) don't read well for a Rising Star winner who has just finished his 5th year of footy.
Here's why I reckon he might be on a hiding to nothing. Taylor's contract is up at the end of season 2019. He was re-signed towards the end of 2016 to a 3 year deal on a reported $400,000 per year. Imo that was an outrageous contract for a third year a small fwd, with his output. That year he kicked 17 Goals 13 Behinds & averaged 59.8 pts in AFL Fantasy which is a rough guide to a players performance. The Club payed way overs. If Taylor doesn't have a fantastic start to 2019, he'll find himself in the NEAFL pretty quickly & 2019 would be his last as a Lion. If Taylor does have a fantastic start to the year, his Manager will rightfully be looking for an immediate contract extension and a pay rise. With the deep talented young list we have, he'd be priced out of the market for the Lions & most value to the Club as a mid year or end of year trade.
It will be interesting how this plays out.

 

[mick1013]

Taylor's position in this improving team is interesting and worth a look at. I think he might be on a hiding to nothing next year as far as staying at the Lions; doesn't mean he won't have a super 2019 by the way. I'll explain that later. A NAB Rising Star, no question he's a quality player. Taylor will be 24 when next season starts. One would reasonably expect him to be still improving as a player. It's true & does not go unnoticed that Taylor spent the first three years of his career with a Club which was a basket case. No doubt in my mind, Taylor was not given quality football development under Leppitsch.
When Fagan was appointed after the 2016 season, things changed dramatically for the better. Under Fagan, Taylor's goal kicking has improved significantly, 17 goals 13 behinds in 2016, 17/15 in 2017, 22/7 in 2018. Since Fagan took over as coach, Taylor has been named & played in every regular season game, he's durable & getting a good go. This season gone, he was named as a starting forward twice, on the wing ten times & on the bench ten times. When new players come in to a side are bench starters normally the ones who are dropped?
Things that concern me as a supporter are his 2017/2018 year on year tackles per game were down ca. 23% putting him at the same average tackles per game as in his first year, his goal assists were down 33% coupled with a small dip in score assists, his meters gained were down ca. 25% & his turnovers were up 15%. Some (not all) of these stats may have an explanation & may be outside of Taylors control, eg: other players are kicking inaccurately when he feeds them. We simply don't if that's the case or not; but it could be. Taylors KPI's for 2017/2018 (the ones the public get to see) don't read well for a Rising Star winner who has just finished his 5th year of footy.
Here's why I reckon he might be on a hiding to nothing. Taylor's contract is up at the end of season 2019. He was re-signed towards the end of 2016 to a 3 year deal on a reported $400,000 per year. Imo that was an outrageous contract for a third year a small fwd, with his output. That year he kicked 17 Goals 13 Behinds & averaged 59.8 pts in AFL Fantasy which is a rough guide to a players performance. The Club payed way overs. If Taylor doesn't have a fantastic start to 2019, he'll find himself in the NEAFL pretty quickly & 2019 would be his last as a Lion. If Taylor does have a fantastic start to the year, his Manager will rightfully be looking for an immediate contract extension and a pay rise. With the deep talented young list we have, he'd be priced out of the market for the Lions & most value to the Club as a mid year or end of year trade.
It will be interesting how this plays out.

He is 23 still will get another deal 100%

 

[Lifelong Lion]

Taylor's position in this improving team is interesting and worth a look at. I think he might be on a hiding to nothing next year as far as staying at the Lions; doesn't mean he won't have a super 2019 by the way. I'll explain that later. A NAB Rising Star, no question he's a quality player. Taylor will be 24 when next season starts. One would reasonably expect him to be still improving as a player. It's true & does not go unnoticed that Taylor spent the first three years of his career with a Club which was a basket case. No doubt in my mind, Taylor was not given quality football development under Leppitsch.
When Fagan was appointed after the 2016 season, things changed dramatically for the better. Under Fagan, Taylor's goal kicking has improved significantly, 17 goals 13 behinds in 2016, 17/15 in 2017, 22/7 in 2018. Since Fagan took over as coach, Taylor has been named & played in every regular season game, he's durable & getting a good go. This season gone, he was named as a starting forward twice, on the wing ten times & on the bench ten times. When new players come in to a side are bench starters normally the ones who are dropped?
Things that concern me as a supporter are his 2017/2018 year on year tackles per game were down ca. 23% putting him at the same average tackles per game as in his first year, his goal assists were down 33% coupled with a small dip in score assists, his meters gained were down ca. 25% & his turnovers were up 15%. Some (not all) of these stats may have an explanation & may be outside of Taylors control, eg: other players are kicking inaccurately when he feeds them. We simply don't if that's the case or not; but it could be. Taylors KPI's for 2017/2018 (the ones the public get to see) don't read well for a Rising Star winner who has just finished his 5th year of footy.
Here's why I reckon he might be on a hiding to nothing. Taylor's contract is up at the end of season 2019. He was re-signed towards the end of 2016 to a 3 year deal on a reported $400,000 per year. Imo that was an outrageous contract for a third year a small fwd, with his output. That year he kicked 17 Goals 13 Behinds & averaged 59.8 pts in AFL Fantasy which is a rough guide to a players performance. The Club payed way overs. If Taylor doesn't have a fantastic start to 2019, he'll find himself in the NEAFL pretty quickly & 2019 would be his last as a Lion. If Taylor does have a fantastic start to the year, his Manager will rightfully be looking for an immediate contract extension and a pay rise. With the deep talented young list we have, he'd be priced out of the market for the Lions & most value to the Club as a mid year or end of year trade.
It will be interesting how this plays out.

I agree that it'll be interesting with Taylor - I think it'll be interesting for the entire 2013 draft class (obvious exception of Gardiner who's extended). I'll be interested to see if they all get new deals, and the number of years they get offered.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Just checked Lewie's statistics - one that stood out was 5.2 score involvements per game. Lachie Neale averages 5.5.

 

[jackess]

Just checked Lewie's statistics - one that stood out was 5.2 score involvements per game. Lachie Neale averages 5.5.

5.2 is pretty average for a half forward.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

5.2 is pretty average for a half forward.

Not at the Lions.

 

[jackess]

Not at the Lions.

Quite a few around 5 per game

 

[LionCub29]

The one thing that quality leaders do is openly discuss performance (positive and negative) and speak about what is required for promotion, retention etc. it is critical to have a clear plan on what a successful future looks like in having those discussions. Apparently, Fagan (and Noble) have been good at the open discussions and, based on selections (particularly the last half of the season), could not have been more clear about how they see the future. The whole list can see that.

That has continued with:
- Mayes (being rarely played in the back half and being traded)
- Bastinac and Allison being rookied (again rarely played in the back half and surplus to requirements unless very significant improvement in areas of deficiency);
- Neale, Adams, McCarthy being traded in. Adams and McCarthy weren’t brought in to play NEAFL.

Following the same reasoning and assuming no significant dip in performance:
- Oscar is a walk up start (as I think he should be - need 50 games or more in him when Stef finishes - I think he could be better than good)
- Taylor plays (but greater competition for his spot)
- McStay’s position (both on the ground or at all) will depend upon the use of Adams
- attempts will be made to fit McCarthy in the team when he gets back to full fitness.

There will be big competition for spots and the pre-season intra-club games will be more fierce than any time in recent years. Darwinian theory...

 

[cotter101]

Gardiner Adams Hodge
Christensen Andrews Witherden

McCluggage Neale Cutler

Taylor Hipwood Rayner
Cameron McStay McCarthy

Martin, Zorko, Lyons

Berry, Robinson, Rich, Robertson.

 

[Milux]

Gardiner Adams Hodge
Christensen Andrews Witherden

McCluggage Neale Cutler

Taylor Hipwood Rayner
Cameron McStay McCarthy

Martin, Zorko, Lyons

Berry, Robinson, Rich, Robertson.

Pritty much mine except I'd swap McCarthy for Mcinerny. Unless our game plan changes which I doubt we will play Hipwood Mcstay and Big O up forward.

 

[Dylan12]

Unless our game plan changes which I doubt we will play Hipwood Mcstay and Big O up forward.

Wasn’t that our forward set up most of last season?

 

[Milux]

Wasn’t that our forward set up most of last season?

Yes. So unless our gameplan has changed it will remain that way ?

 

[Dylan12]

Yes. So unless our gameplan has changed it will remain that way ?

My bad, I didn’t read your post correctly first time round.

 

[Milux]

My bad, I didn’t read your post correctly first time round.

All gud.

I like the 2 talls in hippy and big O then the third being Mcstay. Very promising young players.

 

[royboys4eva]

Gardiner Adams Hodge
Christensen Andrews Witherden

McCluggage Neale Cutler

Taylor Hipwood Rayner
Cameron McStay McCarthy

Martin, Zorko, Lyons

Berry, Robinson, Rich, Robertson.

Berry on the bench??

 

[Fatcat08]

Berry on the bench??

Doesn't mean too much. Team don't always start all their best mids in the first bounce, given the nature of rotations you want to ensure that you have some top liners ready to come on in the first rotation, rather than playing an a and b team mid combo, you try to spread it around more. Especially when you're balancing your types in there. Balance would suggest you probably won't see all 3 of Berry, Lyons and Neale in midfield contests at the same time very often, albeit both Berry and Neale have the pace and ability to play both inside and out.

 

[Lions Flag 2020]

Gardiner Adams Hodge
Christensen Andrews Witherden

McCluggage Neale Cutler

Taylor Hipwood Rayner
Cameron McStay McCarthy

Martin, Zorko, Lyons

Berry, Robinson, Rich, Robertson.

I have to have big O and bailey in my team. For the first time in a long time there is real competition. Starc, Skinner, Wooller, Payne, Eagles, Walker as well as the two who need to come out above will all be pushing to get into this team.

 

[Warwick]

Said every year:
1. The list is in the best shape it’s been in for years.
2. It’s the first year for a long time that there is genuine depth / competition for spots.
3. All things considered, the reserves should win the flag.

As for the strongest or deepest list we’ve ever had???

There’s still 6-8 players on the list I don’t think are AFL quality. I feel we’re still short a couple of better-than-B grade mids, a decent running defender, and a dangerous small forward away from finals. But I will admit the signs are much more promising though...

My round 1 team:

B: Cutler, Adams, Gardiner
HB: Hodge, Andrews, Witherden
C: McLuggage, Berry, Zorko
HF: Taylor, Hipwood, Christensen
F: Rayner, McInerney, Bailey
Foll: Martin, Neale, Lyons
Int: Rich, Robinson, Robertson, McStay

 

[DashinD]

Said every year:
1. The list is in the best shape it’s been in for years.
2. It’s the first year for a long time that there is genuine depth / competition for spots.
3. All things considered, the reserves should win the flag.

As for the strongest or deepest list we’ve ever had???

There’s still 6-8 players on the list I don’t think are AFL quality. I feel we’re still short a couple of better-than-B grade mids, a decent running defender, and a dangerous small forward away from finals. But I will admit the signs are much more promising though...

My round 1 team:

B: Cutler, Adams, Gardiner
HB: Hodge, Andrews, Witherden
C: McLuggage, Berry, Zorko
HF: Taylor, Hipwood, Christensen
F: Rayner, McInerney, Bailey
Foll: Martin, Neale, Lyons
Int: Rich, Robinson, Robertson, McStay

Charlie could be the dangerous small forward?