2019 team rankings according to Champion Data | Page 4 | BigFooty

2019 team rankings according to Champion Data

Discussion in 'AFL - The Australian Football League' started by RUNVS, Nov 29, 2018.

  1. FrustratedTiger

    FrustratedTiger Senior List

    Richmond
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    Champion Data stats have always only been relevant when they confirm the point you are trying to make. Otherwise they are completely useless
     
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  2. blackcat

    blackcat Brownlow Medallist

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    they must tweak the algorithms surely, or Ted Hopkins files chapter eleven *

    #browntablets
    American corporate regulatory statutes innit
     
  3. Vikingnz

    Vikingnz Premium Platinum

    Richmond
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    Haha, what? There is bias, in the model builder determining what weightings to apply to different stats.
     
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  4. shintemaster

    shintemaster Premium Gold

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    Admittedly their stats wouldn't account for injuries - who, when, mid game, training related etc... But yeah, this is not an individual sport so stats are of less value than some sports except for where there are clearer 1 on 1 contests (say ruck contests) or kicking for goal, specific angles etc.
     
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  5. MarkT2

    MarkT2 Norm Smith Medallist

    Collingwood
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    Surely this is embarrassing for Champion Data?

    The 2018 list proves how inaccurate the CD system is on a team assessment and the 2019 list looks like more confirmation. How can the premier be ranked so low? They don't have a highly ranked midfield but come September the WCE midfield beat Collingwood's twice and destroyed Melbourne's.

    It's not possible that CD's ranking formulae equate to actually winning which after all is what the ladder actually does measure.
     
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  6. 00Stinger

    00Stinger Duel Group 1 winner

    Melbourne
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    Other Teams:
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    you know all AFL clubs use their stats, right?

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  7. Engimal v3

    Engimal v3 Club Legend

    North Melbourne
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    Bit rough on Cripps, yeah?
     
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  8. 00Stinger

    00Stinger Duel Group 1 winner

    Melbourne
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    none of those players are elite

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  9. Isaac Cumming No 1

    Isaac Cumming No 1 Premium Platinum

    GWS
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    Shiel was in the AA team in 2017, that's a pretty elite group.
     
  10. Topkent

    Topkent Premium Platinum

    Melbourne
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    Being elite for a single season doesn't make you elite. Then James Frawley is still an elite FB
     
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  11. Isaac Cumming No 1

    Isaac Cumming No 1 Premium Platinum

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    He's 25, doubt it will be his only time. He wasn't eligible in 2015 because of injury. , Must have been close in 2016 and played a new role in 2018 for the first time.
     

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  12. Trav 20

    Trav 20 Norm Smith Medallist

    Melbourne
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    CD's stats and algorithms have far more credibility than the IPCCs flawed climate model predictions, which are never correct, yet I bet most of you lemmings worship the climate change hoax.

    The irony.
     
  13. Engimal v3

    Engimal v3 Club Legend

    North Melbourne
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    Yeah, **** climate change believers!
     
  14. Topkent

    Topkent Premium Platinum

    Melbourne
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    Irrelevant. He's not in the AFL elite
     
  15. Isaac Cumming No 1

    Isaac Cumming No 1 Premium Platinum

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    No it isn't, and yes he is.
     
  16. Gethelred

    Gethelred Norm Smith Medallist

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    Fraught with huge problems. Do 21 year olds improve across the board? Do they do so sufficiently to provide what, a 10-20% statistical bump for all 21 year olds across the board as a predictive model?

    Champion data release this kind of thing for several reasons, but one of them is to highlight the weaknesses of a purely statistical approach of observing AFL. They don't depict things as they could be, or try to predict the future; the depict things as they are, make of it what you will. It's the media and the Supercoach people that make much of it.
     
  17. Sprout

    Sprout Brownlow Medallist

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    Just utterly clueless.
     
  18. blitzer

    blitzer Norm Smith Medallist

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    Champion data are not any better at predicting the ladder than anyone else. It is however good to get an objective and stats driven view point to add to the overall argument.

    One of the weaknesses of using stats to drive player value is that players that are assigned more negative or negating roles will always be underrated. This could include a range of roles including defenders, taggers, defensive forwards etc. On the flip side if you are comparing certain roles it probably does a pretty good job. eg comparing key forwards or comparing rucks.

    Some stats are situational for how much value they provide. I've always thought of tackles in this way. For example if an slow inside midfielder racks up tackles well to be honest, yes its good to lay tackles rather than not laying them but they are not even close to comparable to a tackle inside 50 particularly if it gives up a free. I'd rather 1 run down tackle that wins a free than 3 i'll just hug the nearest player in congestion tackles so we get a ball up.
     
  19. Topkent

    Topkent Premium Platinum

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    So your elite must be like 20% of the competition then
     
  20. AmericanAFL

    AmericanAFL Debutant

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    Honest question from a new fan- what constitutes a cheap possession in your opinion?

    Also, any other examples of stat padding you could explain would be greatly appreciated.
     
  21. Trav 20

    Trav 20 Norm Smith Medallist

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    The West Coast poster was just having a laugh. I'm not sure why he's being taken seriously.
     
  22. AmericanAFL

    AmericanAFL Debutant

    Melbourne
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    Is that a stat that is tracked- “tackles that win a free”?
     
  23. Topkent

    Topkent Premium Platinum

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    Cheap possession generally means people think it added no value.
    So often you will see a midfielder handball to someone standing still who will handball it back to them. Cheap

    Or a bloke who gets it and handpasses backwards. Cheap

    We value more aggressive use of the ball here. So someone going in an winning it in amongst 3 blokes raising his arms and then handballing it to someone clear is a valuable touch. Basically it's how we separate players who both get 30 disposals as some like Dangerfield and Martin will create forward momentum when they get the ball where as others just pass the problem onto someone else so to speak.
     
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  24. RUNVS

    RUNVS Hall of Famer

    Sydney
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    Cheap possession is usually one that is not an attacking disposal, and not under a lot of pressure. It is especially true when a player gets 2, 3 or even 4 disposals in the space of a few seconds when a team is handballing it amongst themselves.
     
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  25. AmericanAFL

    AmericanAFL Debutant

    Melbourne
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    Ok thanks. Is there anyone out there attempting to track stats that combine an element of “value judgement” by a human? So in this case a stat like “productive disposal”.
     
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