Opinion 2019 Trade Period - Pass or Fail

How do you rate the AFC's 2019 trade period?

  • Reid smashed it! King of the world!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm ok with it. Reckon we got rid of some deadwood and have come out on top.

    Votes: 38 31.7%
  • I'll let you know in 3 years.

    Votes: 17 14.2%
  • Not reamed, but feeling a little sore around the edges.

    Votes: 44 36.7%
  • WTF just happened?!?

    Votes: 21 17.5%

  • Total voters
    120

Shaz2012

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 15, 2012
7,183
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They’re desperate to pick up Flanders. They said they wanted to move up the draft order to get him
if Flanders is so good we should take him. After bid matching they don’t have any picks that would get you a will Gould or any other player that any draft watcher is talking about. Their top two picks would come on around 15 and 18. Why would we give up 4 for that even if they throw in some later picks?

cant believe how many crows fans are trying to do Geelonga favour here. They have got nothing remotely close to even mention doing a deal with them.
 

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arsene wenger1

Club Legend
Jul 14, 2009
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if Flanders is so good we should take him. After bid matching they don’t have any picks that would get you a will Gould or any other player that any draft watcher is talking about. Their top two picks would come on around 15 and 18. Why would we give up 4 for that even if they throw in some later picks?

cant believe how many crows fans are trying to do Geelonga favour here. They have got nothing remotely close to even mention doing a deal with them.
Agreed
 

Golumless

I'm kind of a big deal on the east side
Jul 12, 2013
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Doedee, Lever -dont understimate the value of a 3rd defender. youre right tjough. i just think Gould could blossom into a quality player and the go home risk shouldnt be a problem. i also likr the idea of another young bid bodied hardnut joining Fog and Frampton. We have bern cryingout for tbese types for 2 decades.
If anything, it's a case of don't overestimate it.

They're in a weird situation in that 3rd talls are valuable to the side, however, similar to a defensive small forward, the list of players who would be good at it is huge. Especially as getting performance out of that position has more to do with who your first and second KPDs are instead of who is playing in that role, as they do the hard work in creating chances for a 3rd tall.

If a third tall doesn't have the potential to move up in the world to a first or second KPD, or towards the midfield, they're relatively worthless as they'll always sit on the knife edge due to how many players are capable of performing in that role. The example of that occurring is Lever, Doedee, Keath.
 

Mutineer

Premium Platinum
Aug 9, 2019
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If anything, it's a case of don't overestimate it.

They're in a weird situation in that 3rd talls are valuable to the side, however, similar to a defensive small forward, the list of players who would be good at it is huge. Especially as getting performance out of that position has more to do with who your first and second KPDs are instead of who is playing in that role, as they do the hard work in creating chances for a 3rd tall.

If a third tall doesn't have the potential to move up in the world to a first or second KPD, or towards the midfield, they're relatively worthless as they'll always sit on the knife edge due to how many players are capable of performing in that role. The example of that occurring is Lever, Doedee, Keath.
Gould won't play as a 3rd tall at AFL level, I expect he'll play back flank/running back Brodie Smith style [think Brodie Smith with contested grunt] where he'll be used to set up play with his accurate highly penetrative kicking....I suspect with his sublime penetrating foot skills he'll also be the team's designated kicker like Brodie.
 

arsene wenger1

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Jul 14, 2009
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Gould won't play as a 3rd tall at AFL level, I expect he'll play back flank/running back Brodie Smith style [think Brodie Smith with contested grunt] where he'll be used to set up play with his accurate highly penetrative kicking....I suspect with his sublime penetrating foot skills he'll also be the team's designated kicker like Brodie.
Has he got decent pace?
 

Mr_Moogle

Brownlow Medallist
May 29, 2011
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Gould won't play as a 3rd tall at AFL level, I expect he'll play back flank/running back Brodie Smith style [think Brodie Smith with contested grunt] where he'll be used to set up play with his accurate highly penetrative kicking....I suspect with his sublime penetrating foot skills he'll also be the team's designated kicker like Brodie.
Really? Gould has a fraction of the speed Smith has and that's after his knee reco.
 

Mutineer

Premium Platinum
Aug 9, 2019
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Really? Gould has a fraction of the speed Smith has and that's after his knee reco.
Yeah really.
If that's what you think you really need to go look at some more footage of Gould's actual football, he is in no way slow and plays with plenty of attacking flair, it's what the player does on the football field not the polished hard boards at some sports stadium, Will plays plenty fast.
 

TheLeftFist8

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Jul 17, 2006
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Yeah really.
If that's what you think you really need to go look at some more footage of Gould's actual football, he is in no way slow and plays with plenty of attacking flair, it's what the player does on the football field not the polished hard boards at some sports stadium, Will plays plenty fast.
Absolutely, would love him in our backline.

Gould Doedee Laird
Brown Talia McPherson (with one of Kelly/Hartigan/Butts/Hamill on bench depending on form and match ups/height required)

Need a pick before Port's 18 I reckon.
 

Mr_Moogle

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Yeah really.
If that's what you think you really need to go look at some more footage of Gould's actual football, he is in no way slow and plays with plenty of attacking flair, it's what the player does on the football field not the polished hard boards at some sports stadium, Will plays plenty fast.
I'm going over some u18 footage. His kicking reminds me of Smith. He has that knack for getting just enough distance on his kicks to catch opposition out of position. He doesn't appear to have the explosive speed of a Brodie Smith but he's no slouch either. He actually looks better in a marking contest than Brodie but that might just be the highlights package throwing me off.

Now I'm reminded how much better the state guernsey looks. Best looking kit ever imo.
 
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Truck25

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Nov 9, 2007
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Gotta say I wasn't happy with some of the trades but I can see what they are doing, short term pain for long term gain. We've gone from the 3rd oldest list to the 3rd youngest list in the space of 10 days, Banked a load of cap space and gave the new coach a good core to work with. Time and time again posters were calling for a purge "bottom out a build again". Well this is what it looks like. It's all over to Haggis now, weave your magic ol' boy and get us some gems.
 

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latinoheat

Club Legend
Sep 8, 2008
2,251
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Anyone see this. Thought it was interesting. Looks like we got reamed in the Keath and Jenkins trades

This list is based on the DVI point values from the Draftguru list: https://www.draftguru.com.au/trades/year/2019. For future picks that assumes clubs finish in the same spots they did this year. Lots of single player trades so we can get reasonably accurate values - only really the Acres-Hill and Howard-Ryder deals which are less clear.

3213: Tim Kelly
3000: pick 1
1878: pick 5

1643: Brad Hill (assuming Blake Acres is about 500 points)
1395: pick 10
1158: Dougal Howard + Paddy Ryder
912: pick 20
882: Ed Langdon
843: Josh Bruce
690: Hugh Greenwood
665: James Aish
643: Callum Ah Chee
629: pick 30
615: Zak Jones
614: Alex Keath
429: pick 40
335: Tom Cutler
302: Lewis Taylor
273: pick 50
226: Sam Frost
197: Marc Pittonet
194: Billy Frampton, Dan Butler, Jon Patton, Sam Jacobs
184: Aiden Bonar
182: Eddie Betts
170: Zac Smith, Jack Steven
146: pick 60
71: Darcy Cameron
67: Andrew Phillips
39: pick 70
0: Josh Jenkins
 

Peter J

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 24, 2008
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What a Muppet... could he love "wellsy" any more..
Can just imagine the bbq at roos house all happy with a stockpile of nothing picks. The time to pull the trigger was last yrs draft! Good old crows always a step behind.
I'm sure we'll get a decent player at pick 4 but please DONT let him be another 180cm midget!
If in referring to 180cm midgets your referring to Jones and McHenry I’d suggest your in for a surprise when they are both up and running
 

Daniel1812

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 20, 2013
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It feels nice to be back.

I don’t understand the media or anyone who thought we failed. We massively needed an overhaul in trading out older players who wouldn’t be in the next tilt.

It’s a shame Eddie left but it was needed to progress with Stengle and Gallucci.

I’m disappointed with the trade of Greenwood though. A pick in the 40’s was shocking even though Hugh was a depth player.
 

SaltPeter

"I’m a professional bullshitter"
Jan 6, 2018
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Happy with it..

would have been more happy if laird,atkins and knight were moved on..

laird because i think hes slightly overrated and easily replaced with some of the youngsters coming through and he wouldve got us a decent return..

and atkins and knight because they are shit.
Doubt Nicks will move Laird on anytime soon. The first thing Nicks did when he arrived at Scotch was to promote Laird to the existing First XVIII leadership group.

Secondly, I think it would be dumb to push talented local players off of the list.
 

BACCS

BigFooty Juggernaut
May 10, 2009
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Doubt Nicks will move Laird on anytime soon. The first thing Nicks did when he arrived at Scotch was to promote Laird to the existing First XVIII leadership group.

Secondly, I think it would be dumb to push talented local players off of the list.
Laird won the B&F last year and is a 2 time AA, of course he isn’t getting moved on. He’s a class player that had a down season and will bounce back.
 

kulak

Premiership Player
May 16, 2006
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Here's how I think all the clubs did overall. Aiming to consider both the value clubs got in trades, as well as strategically how does it move them closer to their next premiership.

West Coast - A

Tim Kelly is a star

No draft picks coming up but no need for them either, they need to win now with their current group.

Brisbane - A

CEY is a very good footballer who provides a big inside presence and will beautifully complement their existing quicker players like Zorko and McCluggage. They got him for free.

Callum Ah Chee and Grant Birchall both low cost high upside players who they would hope will give them more bounce from defence.

Cleared a bunch of list cloggers. Retained picks 16 + 21 for the draft.

Port Adelaide - A

Great value in their trades. Traded a player who wasn't consistently first team for a first round pick.

Great strategic approach. Understand their current group isn't going to win a flag. Understand commercially they aren't well placed to embark on a Carlton style full rebuild and therefore keeping enough senior players around to compete - while trading out OK players for draft picks they hope will be great players.

Sydney - B+

Decent value for Zak Jones who is a handy player but also a 25 year old who isn't a matchwinner.

Strategically they have got a bunch of decent draft picks this year and next while they are rebuilding.

Carlton - B

Cynically offered nothing to GC for Jack Martin knowing it is highly likely they get him for free in the PSD.

Avoided overpaying for Papley.

Cleared a bunch of list cloggers, but don't have great picks to replace them.

Fremantle - B

Traded Brad Hill who is a 26 year old player managing knee issues for pick 10 plus a future second ~ 25.
Traded Ed Langdon who is not particularly good for effectively another future second.
Brought in a couple of ok players in Acres and Aish and have lots of draft picks.

Strategy is unclear. Nat Fyfe is going to be cooked in a few years, at some point they need to surround him with good players and win some matches.

Geelong - B

Lost a star and got the best available value for him.

Added a couple more 30+ guys to their growing collection.

GWS Giants - B

Salary dumped Patton and Bonar.

Surprising Bonar is seen to have been so disappointing that nobody was willing to pay more than NM ended up offering.

Melbourne - B

Strategy makes sense, get talent in ASAP so that it can contribute while Gawn Viney McDonald etc are still around.

Tomlinson and Langdon aren't particularly good players. Tomlinson especially is a low footy IQ athletic specimen and won't get better with age.

North Melbourne - B

Unwilling to rebuild fully, they instead go on the hunt for value pick-offs and trades.

Strategy geared to being competitive without ever really contending. Maybe commercially they feel they have no other option.

Collingwood - nothing doing
Essendon - nothing doing
Richmond - nothing doing

Adelaide - C

Received acceptable value for trades given we were selling players we didn't want to keep.

Strategically awful - if we are contending then we should have kept at least one of CEY and Greenwood as well as Keath. If we are rebuilding then we should have traded out a good quality first team player or two extra first round picks. We did neither, just muddling along aimlessly.

Hawthorn - C

Great players declining and retiring. Pretty good players coming in to replace them.

They haven't nailed the big free agent signings they needed to make their strategy a winner.

Hard to see them winning a flag until after they have rebuilt properly which is years away.

Gold Coast - D

Will lose Jack Martin for nothing.

Signed Brandon Ellis on a big money contract.

Where are their geriatric role model locker room character guys? GWS signed a tonne of guys like Luke Power and James McDonald. Instead they continue to waste money on average age average quality guys like Brandon Ellis.

Hugh Greenwood will be handy and is the only reason they aren't an F.

St Kilda - F

A list with no stars and few young players with the potential to be stars.

Desperately needed to go to the draft and draft some high quality young players.

Instead they trade out their draft picks for some pretty good but not elite 25 year old players who don't change the overall picture. They traded out their 2nd and 3rd next year too.

Terrible. Worse than Gold Coast.
 

marty36

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 17, 2009
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Gould won't play as a 3rd tall at AFL level, I expect he'll play back flank/running back Brodie Smith style [think Brodie Smith with contested grunt] where he'll be used to set up play with his accurate highly penetrative kicking....I suspect with his sublime penetrating foot skills he'll also be the team's designated kicker like Brodie.
what would you consider enough height to play that 3rd tall, granted keath is 198cm Lever 194cm an doedee 188 cm

I think gould is listed at 191 cm
 

Scorpus

The Boys Are Sacked!
Apr 16, 2014
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Interesting analysis from kulak. Not sure I agree, I'll give my rankings

A - West Coast

Trade in one of the best players in the competition without losing anyone or needing to execute 4D chess with draft pick swaps. Clearly will be contending again with a strong list, the perfect move.

A - Brisbane

Hard not to like what they are doing. Retained good draft picks, got in low priced but potential high reward players like Ah Chee and CEY. Traded out Cutler and Taylor who both suck so they won't be tempted into playing them.

A - GWS

Cleared cap space to retain their stars, which is all they need to do because they have a talented list. No pressing list needs, just need internal development and better injury management to keep everyone on the park. Also are well positioned to get more elite talent at the draft.

A - Richmond

When you win the flag, you don't need to do anything. At least they didn't do anything stupid.

A - Western Bulldogs

Traded in Bruce and Keath without spending a first round draft pick, retaining theirs for this year and next. Allows them to keep building their side and potentially accelerate given they needed KPPs. Very clear strategy.

B - Sydney

Didn't massively overpay for Daniher, who they can get next year as a free agent. Also didn't lose Papley. Replaced Jones with Taylor which is a minor downgrade. Also retained pick 5, which is in keeping with their current rebuild. Perhaps could have traded out an older player to accelerate the process.

B - Fremantle

Going through a massive rebuild and have positioned themselves perfectly in the draft to nab 2-3 first round talents. Only had to trade Brad Hill to achieve this, who I think is overrated and they got massive overs for.

Losing Langdon is a bummer though, he was developing nicely and would have been around when they are next contending.

B - Gold Coast

Didn't really need to do anything to have a successful trade period as they were given a huge handout by the AFL. Managed to immediately acquire best 22 players in Greenwood and Ellis for nothing, which provide genuine experience, not the experience of fringe players like in previous years. On top of that, will get the best 2 talents in the draft.

I like that they didn't accept nothing for Martin, making him sweat and taking a stand is better than getting rubbish picks given Gold Coast already have a shit load of picks. However they needed to go harder at a senior leadership player to guide them through the transition.

C - Hawthorn

Traded in Frost and Patton who probably won't add all that much to their team. Seems to be attempting a rebuild but also not attempting a rebuild, having acquired multiple mid-20s players last year with top draft picks. Need to make up their mind as to whether to top up or hit the draft harder, if it's the latter, should have traded out their remaining older players.

C - Melbourne

Langdon is a good pickup given they don't have many of his type on the list. Are also positioned well at the draft, but did so by trading out way too much in 2020. Tomlinson doesn't seem like a need at all. Also feel they missed a trick in not acquiring Jenkins, who is a much better fit for their list profile than Geelong.

You can see what they are thinking - 2019 was a blip and we are contenders that need a small top up - but didn't quite nail the moves to see out that strategy.

C - Adelaide

Fire sold players. Cleared out several aging players who were cooked, thus shedding salary. But at the same time, accepted unders for decent players like Greenwood.

Tepid rebuild perhaps isn't the best move but when shedding 7 players, more can be moved on the next year, and that's what I'd expect

C - North Melbourne

Managed to ream Melbourne for a pick swap favoring 2020, but their short term strategy, like Hawthorn, is confused. Are they topping up, like they did in 2018, or is their list not good enough and needs a rebuild? They need to commit one way or the other, picking up low priced discards and being content with their bottom 8 list is not what I'd have been doing. Either target picks or players.

C - St Kilda

Massively overpaid for Hill and allegedly giving him a big contract. Doesn't seem like a sensible thing to do. Really like the acquisitions of Jones and Howard though, Howard in particular is the exact sort of player a team like St Kilda should be happy to give up a late first round pick for. Trading out Bruce at the right time given he's bog average and they have Max King coming through.

They're clearly banking on some of their recent high draft picks to come on and that's a possibility, but probably should have kept pick 10 rather than going after Hill. Time will tell.

D - Carlton

Went after Papley and Martin but got neither of them. In not trading for Martin, opened themselves up to the risk of not getting him in the PSD. Poor trading.

Replaced Andrew Phillips with Marc Pittonet, which is a downgrade. Used cap space on Betts which doesn't seem a sensible fit for where the list is at. Should have gone after the plethora of other small forwards being traded.

D - Collingwood

Didn't improve their list at all, which given their current position as a flag contender that's not good enough, I think is a fail. Needed to strengthen the forward line but only traded in Darcy Cameron and due to the Beams trade, have no other early talent coming in to push out fringe players.

D - Port Adelaide

Don't understand the Dougal Howard trade at all. Got decent value for him, but at any well coached club he'd be a required player, and he was contracted. Then proceeded to shed even more tall players (Ryder, Frampton) while retaining Westhoff, who has maybe 1 year left at most.

They are signalling a rebuild but getting rid of the wrong players, which will leave them badly exposed.

E - Essendon

Despite all the fans wanting him to stay, they failed to trade out Joe Daniher for massive overs who becomes a free agent next year and can't get on the park anyway. Then proceeded to delist Mitch Brown who they probably needed, and traded in Tom Cutler who sucks.

Have no early picks due to trading in Shiel and will likely stagnate because they are barely good enough to make finals with their current list.

E - Geelong

Lost one of the best players in the competition and didn't get a single top 10 draft pick despite getting a large haul of picks. Then proceeded to waste list spots on Jenkins and Steven, who are both practically finished at AFL level, even though they spent nothing on them.

Seem to be struggling with the reality they badly need a rebuild, and are instead giving it one last shot, which probably won't work as they didn't bring in anyone who will rejuvenate the squad. Holding back on the rebuild will see them crash harder.
 

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