Opinion 2019 Trade Period - Pass or Fail

How do you rate the AFC's 2019 trade period?

  • Reid smashed it! King of the world!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I'm ok with it. Reckon we got rid of some deadwood and have come out on top.

    Votes: 38 31.7%
  • I'll let you know in 3 years.

    Votes: 17 14.2%
  • Not reamed, but feeling a little sore around the edges.

    Votes: 44 36.7%
  • WTF just happened?!?

    Votes: 21 17.5%

  • Total voters
    120

cmndstab

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It’s not a second. The second we got will very closely be matched by the third we gave away. We couldn’t even manage to give the future fourth rounder back instead of the third. That’s pathetic.
Are you thinking of the Jenkins trade? We definitely got a second round pick for Keath. The steak knives (our 2020 third rounder for their 2019 third rounder) is a tie at worst, and is arguably in our favour.
 

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CharlieCrow

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Why are we hated so much by the commentators of the AFL, either their in house journos or that ridiculous bunch on trade radio/TV? Barrett just slams us at every opportunity and that stupid ranking of trades just made me laugh! They accepted it was a clean out. And when there's a cleanout of old players and / or those that cant make your team then you get unders. That's how it works. Sure, we could have got more for Keath and possibly Greenwood, but I'm just happy to see them all go to make sure the rebuild can start in earnest.

The best example of how bad the AFL commentators are is that I actually found Kane Cornes the most measured ad reasonable!
 

Wood_Duck

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I’ve given the reasons why I believe it’s epic.

Are we rebuilding or not? Loading up with a bunch of average picks ain’t going to cut it. We should have traded out some real currency and brought in quality picks for a proper rebuild.
You might be understating the difficulty of getting deals done during trade week. I reckon the fact that so many deals didnt get done would indicate teams were giving nothing up. We went in with a very week hand. We had no leverage with Greenwood due to PSD, no leverage with Jenkins because he was contracted on big money, the Keath deal was a bit under but Dogs really didn't have currency. Reckon you are being a bit harsh.
 

Elite Crow

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You might be understating the difficulty of getting deals done during trade week. I reckon the fact that so many deals didnt get done would indicate teams were giving nothing up. We went in with a very week hand. We had no leverage with Greenwood due to PSD, no leverage with Jenkins because he was contracted on big money, the Keath deal was a bit under but Dogs really didn't have currency. Reckon you are being a bit harsh.
Bulldogs had currency. They had 13 which should have held out for with pick 23 back. They needed him a lot more than we needed 45.

Then failing that, in regards to the pick swap next year, we got their second but gave our 3rd back, there is likely to be very little difference between the 2. Surely we could have least managed to give them only a fourth back. We effectively traded Keath for 45 which is shit.

And further to that, the contracts for Keath and Greenwood would take them to 31 and 32 with triggers. They are not an issue with our list profile. We were happy for them to go as we believe they held trade currency which we got badly wrong.
 
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arsene wenger1

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Why are we hated so much by the commentators of the AFL, either their in house journos or that ridiculous bunch on trade radio/TV? Barrett just slams us at every opportunity and that stupid ranking of trades just made me laugh! They accepted it was a clean out. And when there's a cleanout of old players and / or those that cant make your team then you get unders. That's how it works. Sure, we could have got more for Keath and possibly Greenwood, but I'm just happy to see them all go to make sure the rebuild can start in earnest.

The best example of how bad the AFL commentators are is that I actually found Kane Cornes the most measured ad reasonable!
And then they act like we’re the paranoid ones when we call them out on it
 

Geoffa32

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We now have no choice but to move on from the grand final team

Out: Cameron, Douglas, Greenwood, Jacobs, Jenkins, Lever, Otten, Betts

Will Mackay, Atkins, Kelly and Knight also still be best 22?

---

We have no choice but to finally move on from our failed 2016 side

Out: Betts, Cameron, Cheney, Douglas, Jacobs, Jenkins, Lever, Lyons, McGovern, Thompson

---

We have no choice but to move on from R23, 2019

Out: Betts, Douglas, Greenwood, Jacobs, Keath

More games pumped in to Jones, Fogarty, and Milera
This is why I see this period as somewhat of a success.

The only real list clogger over 25 is Mackay. Gibbs can still be a quality player if his head is right.

Hartigan could be considered another, however our KPD depth is him and Butts. Hopefully Harto and Butts can rotate in that second KPD role.


We still needed to keep a core of 6 to 8 quality players over 27 to provide decent structure for the younger players to work in. Talia, Tex, Smithers, Lynch, Sloaney, Brown.

We are actually quite a young side now. The bulk of our list in that 22 to 28 bracket.

Had Burton not f’ed it up 2017 to 2019 was our window. That era is gone now. Time to build for the next one.


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Wood_Duck

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Bulldogs had currency. They had 13 which should have held out for with pick 23 back. They needed him a lot more than we needed 45.

Then failing that, in regards to the pick swap next year, we got their second but gave our 3rd back, there is likely to be very little difference between the 2. Surely we could have least managed to give them only a fourth back. We effectively traded Keath for 45 which is shit.

And further to that, the contracts for Keath and Greenwood would take them to 31 and 32 with triggers. They are not an issue with our list profile. We were happy for them to go as we believe they held trade currency which we got badly wrong.
Dogs ruled out using 13. It was never going to happen. In the end I think Reid et.al let their heads rule their hearts. 45 is better than nothing. Letting keath go for nothing whilst being an opportunity to beat our chests, was not in the best interest of the club. History suggests players like Worpel and Sloane are still around into the forties if you know what you are doing.
 

Geoffa32

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Bulldogs had currency. They had 13 which should have held out for with pick 23 back. They needed him a lot more than we needed 45.

Then failing that, in regards to the pick swap next year, we got their second but gave our 3rd back, there is likely to be very little difference between the 2. Surely we could have least managed to give them only a fourth back. We effectively traded Keath for 45 which is shit.

And further to that, the contracts for Keath and Greenwood would take them to 31 and 32 with triggers. They are not an issue with our list profile. We were happy for them to go as we believe they held trade currency which we got badly wrong.
Do you think we are contenders in the next three years?

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How did we get well over for Jenkins? We basically got equivalent picks and are paying half his contract?
while we may be paying half his contract, remember it was a reduced contract, Jenkins is taking a pay cut.
what we are not paying is 500K for a SANFL player more like 100k to 200K max.
 

ams4crows

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Do you think we are contenders in the next three years?

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Realistically no, but no one expected the Young Bulldogs to win from 7th they just had an exceptional September (with a little umpiring help)

We will just have to wait and see
 

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rocket18

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I haven't been too positive about the AFC over the last decade and whilst I feel we should have got more for Hugh & Keith I am rapt we have culled so many players who are past it.

From our round 23 team we lose:
Betts - Stengle
Douglas - Pick 4
Greenwood - McAdam
Jacobs - ROB
Keath - Doodee

The guys on the right are immediately an upgrade on how the guys on the left played in 2019
- PLUS they have the potential to improve further.

Surprisingly I am quite buoyant about next season and finals are a real chance.

We still have a solid core of senior players - Tex, Sloane, Talia, Smith, Laird, Brown, Seed, Brad.

Moved on a load of deadwood and have Jones, Fog, Ned and a couple others ready to step up.

Why all the doom and gloom, as above the guys going out (on their 2019 form/age) are being replaced by better options - in a few cases a much better option.
 

Elite Crow

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Do you think we are contenders in the next three years?

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Responding to Wood_Duck as well.

No. Do I consider Bulldogs contenders with Keath? Yes. Therefore we should have got a lot more than we did. This 13 was never on the table is crap. They had a lot more to lose and as I said at least only given them next years fourth back.

Pick 45 is a nothing pick. We have plenty of picks in that range already.

And what message have we sent to the rest of the teams when we say we will not be trading him only with 1 hour to go to then accept the same pick we said was miles away all trade period?

All clubs need to say to us is “that pick is off the table” knowing we will fold.
 

Geoffa32

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Realistically no, but no one expected the Young Bulldogs to win from 7th they just had an exceptional September (with a little umpiring help)

We will just have to wait and see
True.

The Bulldogs also had a young side and were able to play kids and not waste salary on older guys playing Reserve footy while plaing kids.

We keep Greenwood and Keath that is two spots two younger guys miss out on each week.

I would rather play Wilson as bigger bodied mid over Greenwood. Purely based on age. Ability as a mid is about the same. Why carry both?

It is dubious what position Keath plays next year with Doedee back in and Keaths credentials as an actual defender, as opposed to interceptor, are questionable.

These are two guys you keep on if you are contending. We are not.

As you say we may jag a finals.position and flag. But that will come more from youthful enthusiasm rather than keeping players like Keath and Greenwood.


Looking at the immediate trades it is a fail. But look at a bigger picture and there is a definite plan in place.

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Geoffa32

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Responding to Wood_Duck as well.

No. Do I consider Bulldogs contenders with Keath? Yes. Therefore we should have got a lot more than we did. This 13 was never on the table is crap. They had a lot more to lose and as I said at least only given them next years fourth back.

Pick 45 is a nothing pick. We have plenty of picks in that range already.

And what message have we sent to the rest of the teams when we say we will not be trading him only with 1 hour to go to then accept the same pick we said was miles away all trade period?

All clubs need to say to us is “that pick is off the table” knowing we will fold.
You would have been happy if we got nothing?

Ideally what you are suggesting would have been great. Reid held out as long as he could. But he is accountable for his actions and getting nothing is worse than what we got.

Chest beating is fine, but what would sending Keath to the draft achieve for our club?

Threat of PSD? He would end up at the Doggies anyway.

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rocket18

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Further to my previous post, losing Charlie and McGovern was infinitely worse then what we "lost" this year.

We had no one that could/was able to replace Charlie and Gov, this time we already have similar or better options, we lose nothing with this "crop" going.

Edit: People are getting caught up with the media "the sky is falling" w***ers.
Analyse what we have already got on our list that will replace these players - we will be a better team immediately. (which is strange for losing so many senior players) but we were way overdue for a clean out.
 

Elite Crow

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You would have been happy if we got nothing?

Ideally what you are suggesting would have been great. Reid held out as long as he could. But he is accountable for his actions and getting nothing is worse than what we got.

Chest beating is fine, but what would sending Keath to the draft achieve for our club?

Threat of PSD? He would end up at the Doggies anyway.

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Yes I would have preferred nothing. The cost now would have been better for the next time we get in a similar situation. What message have we told the rest of the clubs? Hang on and we will fold.

And to get to the Bulldogs they had a lot of other teams in their path including us.

Why did West Coast give up so much for Kelly? Why didn’t they just use the PSD threat?
 

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So ... IF we keep #4 and GWS get #3 - given those three picks are done and dusted- who would we target?

BUT - having asked that ... I actually doubt we will end up with #4
Green we force GWS to lose points from 2020 draft, they will lose either their 1st or 2nd rd pick, they don't have enough this year and carry over points are taken from the first pick in the next year draft
Also he will be a handy player for us. If they say no. and we are one of 2 clubs actually interested in him.
 

Brenton Davy

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I never cease to be amazed at threads like this. No-one can make a definitive call yet and won’t be able to for sometime. It only ends up as ANOTHER thread for the doomsayers and naysayers to complain about the club and/or it’s personnel.

Not everything is rosy, nor is every trade going to be a win.By the same token, we have taken steps in the right direction.

Bump this in 3 years. Then we’ll know.
 

Geoffa32

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Yes I would have preferred nothing. The cost now would have been better for the next time we get in a similar situation. What message have we told the rest of the clubs? Hang on and we will fold.

And to get to the Bulldogs they had a lot of other teams in their path including us.

Why did West Coast give up so much for Kelly? Why didn’t they just use the PSD threat?
Because Kelly is a far better player

We were never getting a first rounder for Keath. Even with the swap of our second. 27 and less than 30 games. Dubious whether he can hold down a true KPD role or just an interceptor. He is no Jeremy McGovern.



Look at Lever. The Dees had to bring in May as Lever struggles with the defensive aspect of being a KPD.

I personally think he was probably worth a second rounder at best. And yes going on points there pick 13 plus our second rounder for Keath is "fair".


But let's not kid ourselves the actual player the doggies can get with pick 13 is better than the potential of Keath (he is still potential) and our second rounder. There is no way they were giving up pick 13 in that trade.


Is it really worth getting nothing over a pick downgrade of mid 20s to 45, given a second rounder is his fair value?






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Elite Crow

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Because Kelly is a far better player

We were never getting a first rounder for Keath. Even with the swap of our second. 27 and less than 30 games. Dubious whether he can hold down a true KPD role or just an interceptor. He is no Jeremy McGovern.



Look at Lever. The Dees had to bring in May as Lever struggles with the defensive aspect of being a KPD.

I personally think he was probably worth a second rounder at best. And yes going on points there pick 13 plus our second rounder for Keath is "fair".


But let's not kid ourselves the actual player the doggies can get with pick 13 is better than the potential of Keath (he is still potential) and our second rounder. There is no way they were giving up pick 13 in that trade.


Is it really worth getting nothing over a pick downgrade of mid 20s to 45, given a second rounder is his fair value?






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They valued Keath enough to give him a 4 year deal on decent coin. Keath also fills a need for them, thats why they targeted him and given their deficiencies he will give them a far greater chance of winning a premiership in the next 3-4 years than pick 13.

As for getting through to them in the PSD, all it takes is one club in 11 to pick him up. He's a decent player and the threat to the Bulldogs was real.
 

Flying_as_One1991

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I think the trade period was neither a pass or a fail on our account. We cleared tons of salary, we got deals done for everyone, we have 6 picks inside the top 50 to work with and currency picks for next year now over to Hamish to see what he can do and the Matty Nicks and the coaching staff to bring it all together.
 

scoota10

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Picks swaps can continue to happen any time from now right up until (and during) the draft.

Delistings can still happen... I'm not sure what the cut off for those are, but I assume it has to be in time for those players to nominate for the draft.

Delisted free agents can still sign with clubs - again, I'm not sure exactly when that starts / finishes.
Thankyou
 

OutofTownCrow

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The best 3 picks we have we already had. The best we brought in was 37. We added very average picks, the chances of them being the elite talent we need are very remote.
Lots of other clubs gave away the good picks they had, or downgraded them.

The fact we held ours is a good thing.

All the 'we should have kept' talk is ignoring the non-football parts.

Keath's manager said there was no way Alex was going back to AFC. That will tend to weaken your negotiating hand a little.

Jenkins was thrown out of our club.

Betts chose to go to Carlton because he wants to play a full season of AFL.

Greenwood wanted more money and years than we could offer.

Jacobs was not required.

Douglas walked out.

Otten walked out.

I'm glad we didn't keep any of them. Keath included.

Fresh start, new coach, new KPIs.

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