List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part II

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#gosaintas

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Can you pop up the quote from the interview where Stuv has stated that?

Thanks in advance.

PS. What a disgraceful, childish and stupid post.
It's already been shown he wanted out last year and we wouldn't trade him.
It's pretty clear he wants out this year.
He's done nothing this year for the club yet is our highest paid player.
Sometimes he trains, sometimes he plays, sometimes he doesn't do either.
Just let him go and get whatever we can get for him.
If Geel refuse to offer a 1st rounder then he can sit out next year too.
 

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BrutThough

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I'm not having a go at you.. But as I've been pretty strong on this, if the player wants to go for legitimate reasons, then so be it.

Hindsight is always fun. But in Jack's case we didn't need it.. He expressed he wanted to go home for family reasons and he was struggling. We said no. Not sure if we thought that would be a positive on his life.
It wasn't in the clubs best interest to let him leave last year.
And clearly Jack was comfortable enough with the decision to stay considering it would have been very easy to force the clubs hands and make it known if he desperately needed to return too Geelong.
 

Impatient Saint

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Yep, because after finishing third last it would have gone down very very well to let our best player walk out the club and into Geelong for a draft pick. :rolleyes:
You truly are an ignorant individual, how about having some forward thinking or is it beyond you! Chronic depression is not something that just magically disappears. If Geelong were happy to take him last year the club should have facilitated it, for reason of his WELFARE alone.
 

plugger66

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Crap compensation is as good as no compensation when broader impacts are considered.

We need to be mindful of not openly inviting more, potentially more borderline instances in future.

Remember when was it mitch clark who was homesick for WA and fixed that by going to geelong?

I recall potentially tippett or someone else doing similar? Homesick for somewhere they didnt go?

If the geelong offer were substandard, we'd be better served in the long run (retaining our own players and have more clout in negotiating for new players) buy saying thanks, but no thanks.

And again apart from you who is saying crap compensation? And because it is mental illness we arent better off saying no you can just sit out the year. We lose on any front if we say that. And i don't think Jack has mentioned home sickness at all. What has been mentioned is it may be better for him around family and friends.
 

George

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It's already been shown he wanted out last year and we wouldn't trade him.
It's pretty clear he wants out this year.
He's done nothing this year for the club yet is our highest paid player.
Sometimes he trains, sometimes he plays, sometimes he doesn't do either.
Just let him go and get whatever we can get for him.
If Geel refuse to offer a 1st rounder then he can sit out next year too.
I'm sure if he ends up killing himself from what he is going through you will be well pleased. Shocking comments lately from you.
 

Mikka84

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It wasn't in the clubs best interest to let him leave last year.
And clearly Jack was comfortable enough with the decision to stay considering it would have been very easy to force the clubs hands and make it known if he desperately needed to return too Geelong.
It was a credit to Jack that he didn't push our hand. Wanted to do the right thing by the club. But it didn't sit too well with him. Again hindsight, but we knew he wasn't happy and should have made it happen imo.
 

plugger66

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It wasn't in the clubs best interest to let him leave last year.
And clearly Jack was comfortable enough with the decision to stay considering it would have been very easy to force the clubs hands and make it known if he desperately needed to return too Geelong.

I said this last year and will say it again. I believe Jack was happy to stay even though he would have preferred to go home.
 

VDS66

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Oct 4, 2011
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The lack of empathy for someone suffering with a mental illness just because they want to see someone play football in their colours or someone else from a trade is pretty disappointing.

Having never suffered a mental health crisis, only the odd down period, but seeing all around me my whole life ( mother had mental health challenges her whole life, daughter who suffers acute anxiety), the blaise attitude towards Steven and his health is a bit bewildering.

We don't know the circumstances of this man, if he needs to be with his family so be it.
Nobody or nothing would stop me being with my family, not contracts, not employment, and certainly not football if it was keeping me away.

Seems as though some hold others to a different standard to what they would require in their personal life.

I don't think this is an abstract dry argument about contracts and trades.
Agree.

It's horrible. Just look at Majak to see how these things can play.

I've work hard to overcome my demons and having spoken to others in here, they have as well. Others are still fighting.

It's easy to just say if I can do it, so can you etc etc.

We have our neighbours daughter who suicided. Her younger sister who is only 14 is spending 9 months in south Africa at a special clinic to clean her up after turning to drugs. The victims best friend has just been admitted into an institution after two years of mental health issues.

I don't want to over dramatise Jack's situation, but this s**t is serious.

I understand people not wanting the club screwed over, but it's not black and white.

Anyway, I'm going to step away from this discussion as it hits too close to home for comfort.

Cheers.
 
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Joffaboy

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Quite the contrary, I have nothing but sympathy and best wishes for jack.

My problem isn’t with him or St Kilda who I’m sure will do the right thing being in possession of all the facts. Just very uncomfortable with apparently rampant tampering and the role it may have played in jacks decision making.

I wanted beams and McCarthy to be treated fairly and accommodated within reason.
My post wasn't aimed at you or anybody in particular, apologies if you thought it was.

I however do find your argument about not approaching contracted players curious.
 

Yawkey way

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I don’t get what you are saying. All clubs are doing the same including us. You can be upset jack may leave but you can’t be upset that Geelong as doing exactly what we are doing
My problem is simple you shouldn’t be inducing players to break contracts and it’s punished in other sports. The AFL should look into it generally especially with front loading becoming a common part of contracts. I wondered what came first jack struggling in Melbourne or geelongs approach. Mikka has provided some insight which puts them in a better light.
Mate. There is no tampering going on. All teams are approaching the management of contracted players. My team, your team, every team. St Kilda have a right to refuse to let him go if they wish, but please don’t pretend that your club aren’t doing exactly the same thing.
Where have I said St Kilda aren’t doing it or that I’m comfortable with it?.
 

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Yawkey way

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My post wasn't aimed at you or anybody in particular, apologies if you thought it was.

I however do find your argument about not approaching contracted players curious.
No it’s fine I didn’t take it that way, it’s just I had a few questions about the situation so responded.

In the NFL they have rules and penalties, I have just assumed that you can’t make offers to contracted players directly or through their agents. I thought it was more have a coffee and express a general admiration for a player and an interest to talk should he be made available.

 

Joffaboy

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My problem is simple you shouldn’t be inducing players to break contracts and it’s punished in other sports. The AFL should look into it generally especially with front loading becoming a common part of contracts. I wondered what came first jack struggling in Melbourne or geelongs approach. Mikka has provided some insight which puts them in a better light.

Where have I said St Kilda aren’t doing it or that I’m comfortable with it?.
Contracts aren't broken though. They are mutually agreed upon to be set aside.

Ask Cam McCarthy, Brice Gibbs, and Jack Steven if they could break their contract.

If both parties agree, the contract is null and voided, not broken.
If the parties don't agree, the player stays or sits out a year.
 

Drake Huggins

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When you are clinically depressed getting to the shower, let alone 100kms up the road is a challenge. If his mental health is his number one priority, as it should be, his optimal environment for recovery and management of his condition is one that provides familial and professional support in the most convenient way.

Most players spend 5-6 days at the club, training and playing. Travelling for hours each day is stressful and demotivating. When depressed, things that seem trivial or inconsequential to others, take on monumental proportions for sufferers. A truly terrible illness.
 

St Kilda Death

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Is their actually any source on Jack wanting to go to geelong last year?
Or is it just geelong chasing him as they have been the last 10 years and we are making something of it because of what he's going through?
 

plugger66

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I did notice that.
You will also notice that particular poster which was gosaints has no idea about mental illness. He thinks Jack just picks and chooses when to train and he has dome nothing for our club this year. Im really disgusted that people just don't get it today. maybe years ago it could be explained but there are far to many articles on the internet and on TV not to realise the importance of understanding mental health. To some though its just an excuse. They aren't really sick. Where are the broken bones?
 

plugger66

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Is their actually any source on Jack wanting to go to geelong last year?
Or is it just geelong chasing him as they have been the last 10 years and we are making something of it because of what he's going through?

Im certain they were chasing him and im nearly certain Jack asked to be traded but was more than happy to continue his contract with us.
 

VDS66

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When you are clinically depressed getting to the shower, let alone 100kms up the road is a challenge. If his mental health is his number one priority, as it should be, his optimal environment for recovery and management of his condition is one that provides familial and professional support in the most convenient way.

Most players spend 5-6 days at the club, training and playing. Travelling for hours each day is stressful and demotivating. When depressed, things that seem trivial or inconsequential to others, take on monumental proportions for sufferers. A truly terrible illness.
I think if people have an issue with the possible trade itself, they should direct that angst at the club and not Jack.

The insinuations that he is sucking the clubs money or selecting when to play are just disgusting IMO.

OK now I'm REALLY leaving the discussion...
 

plugger66

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I think if people have an issue with the possible trade itself, they should direct that angst at the club and not Jack.

The insinuations that he is sucking the clubs money or selecting when to play are just disgusting IMO.

OK now I'm REALLY leaving the discussion...

I will meet you at the Banger for a beer. We can talk about it then.
 
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