List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part II

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Virgin Dog

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Not sure why you come over to argue. Every club board is full of supporters wanting a trade that is heavily in their favour.

It's no different to the Dogs board with supporters expecting to get a contracted Josh Bruce who is being offered a large 3 or 4 year deal for a late second round pick.
Who says I'm arguing? People are allowed to have discussion around here, and of course there's going to be disagreement. Seems there's Saints fans who think they'll get our 1st for Bruce (or even more), Dogs fans who think we'll get him for our 2nd, and then there's reality where the clubs meet somewhere in the middle
 

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bird_man

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Dogs first for Bruce on traded for Hill.

That makes the most sense.

Not many players have been moved on in recent history directly for a top 5 pick. The Lachie Weller deal was a disaster.
I'd be surprised if the Dockers accepted pick 14 for Hill whilst we were still holding onto pick 5 unfortunately.
 

Virgin Dog

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Dogs first for Bruce on traded for Hill.

That makes the most sense.

Not many players have been moved on in recent history directly for a top 5 pick. The Lachie Weller deal was a disaster.
The problem is that Hill is worth more than Bruce, so I doubt it's that simple. Whatever you get for Bruce won't be enough to satisfy Fremantle in a Hill trade, so something else needs to be added in, or else you guys will have to pay your Pick 5, and keep whatever you received for Bruce
 

Indie Rock

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The problem is that Hill is worth more than Bruce, so I doubt it's that simple. Whatever you get for Bruce won't be enough to satisfy Fremantle in a Hill trade, so something else needs to be added in, or else you guys will have to pay your Pick 5, and keep whatever you received for Bruce
Do you feel that pick 14 for Bruce straight up is a fair deal?

What's the general feeling amongst your support on what he is worth?
 

Yawkey way

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That’s unfair on Fremantle in my opinion. Hill elected to sign the contract and now wants to leave three years after he went home. The deal will need to be in their favour.
It all depends on how much we want him, Fremantle can cop the rough with the smooth the same as everybody else.

They have benefited from the go home factor and picked up hill for a second rounder. Jack Steven is contracted what do you think we should do, trade him to Geelong for a reasonable return or demand the world and hold him to the contract he was happy to sign.

I expect St Kilda will pay a late first for hill probably more, that to me seems a fair deal for both clubs and the player. Again Fremantle can always so no, the ramifications of that are their problem not ours but he is contracted.
 

stavro#4

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I'd be surprised if the Dockers accepted pick 14 for Hill whilst we were still holding onto pick 5 unfortunately.
I can’t be bothered digging but I would be very interested in seeing what the last 10 player trades are for a top 5 pick.

I know there was Lachie Weller, which is a disgusting deal in hindsight and commented onnaccordingly this week.

There was the “Generational” Tom Boyd and Superstar All Australian 2 x BnF winner Ryan Griffin mega deal.

Can’t think of many more recently.
 

SaintsSeptember

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So we got the rumours that we were shopping Bruce around, then we find out the dogs have offered him a huge deal.
I wonder what came first in the "actual" sequence of events.

The whole interest in Rhyder, Jenkins etc might have happened when they Saints found out that the Dog's were into Bruce.
Better to let him go this year when we have contract leverage, than next year when we don't.
 

Mowman

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But Hill is desperate to leave - Bruce is happy to stay at the Saints and we will reward him well if he stays.

Are Freo happy to break up Hills relationship to keep him?

Doubt it so that's a big difference
End of the day Hill still has 2 years on a contract Freo do not have to let him go

We on here just want everything in our favour
 

bird_man

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I can’t be bothered digging but I would be very interested in seeing what the last 10 player trades are for a top 5 pick.

I know there was Lachie Weller, which is a disgusting deal in hindsight and commented onnaccordingly this week.

There was the “Generational” Tom Boyd and Superstar All Australian 2 x BnF winner Ryan Griffin mega deal.

Can’t think of many more recently.
Prestia, and he wasn't contracted.

There have been plenty of bigger deals that haven't involved a top 5 pick though, such as two firsts with 2nd coming back.

He's contracted, so Freo will player hard ball. I guess we can trade pick 5 out and split it and see how it goes but as long as we have 5, they'll want it.
 

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Yawkey way

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So we got the rumours that we were shopping Bruce around, then we find out the dogs have offered him a huge deal.
I wonder what came first in the "actual" sequence of events.

The whole interest in Rhyder, Jenkins etc might have happened when they Saints found out that the Dog's were into Bruce.
Better to let him go this year when we have contract leverage, than next year when we don't.
When is he a SFA.
 

Winmar2Lockett

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What annoys me about the Bruce and Carlisle are on the table talk from the club is the timing as much as anything else.

We’re supposedly at that time in the middle of a process to select a new senior coach, so was that just a sham, does ratten have the job.

If the club had waited until a new coach was appointed then I’d be more comfortable knowing that ratten had spent 12 months looking at the list and this is the way he wanted the team to go. If it isn’t ratten and it gets out after the appointment then I’d just assume the new coach didn’t rate them.

Why are we putting the cart before the horse, plenty of players will change clubs but why publicly announce it before you appoint a coach.
Let's be clear... it is not the club making these noises. It is media speculation, no doubt encouraged by player managers and driven as truth by supporters on social medai.

The fact is that Bruceyhas a year left on his deal.

So it's pretty reasonable to think that his manager instigates talks with the Dogs in order to put pressure on StK to extend him now. The club either does that or realised this may be an opportunity to take advantage of. A month out from trade week (and probably a day out from the new coach being announced) why the rush to do anything?

So before you throw around accusations like 'sham', maybe look at how and why these rumours start.
 

Winmar2Lockett

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Sounds far more accurate than our first rounder and a highly rated young midfielder. Lipinski has only just turned 21, has had his best season yet, and has found a consistent spot in our 22. From the Dogs perspective, this is like trading Pick 12 + Pick 20 at least for Bruce

As it is, Bruce won't be traded for Pick 12 on its own (if our 1st is involved and it's that low, I can guarantee there's something coming back). In the event that we made prelims (hence a pick 15-18) it would be much closer to straight swapping, but even then I'd think there's still something coming our way (like a later pick swap to our advantage).
In a reasonably weak draft its pure semantics over pick 12 v pick 15-18.

You pay a premium for big forwards who can play. Simple as that.
 

SaintsSeptember

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That’s unfair on Fremantle in my opinion. Hill elected to sign the contract and now wants to leave three years after he went home. The deal will need to be in their favour.
Fremantle only paid pick 23 for Hill, they leveraged the bulls**t go-home factor in their favour. ( pick 23, Cox played one game for the Lions this year ).
I don't give a rat's what is perceived as fair for them under the current circumstance, and anything we give up needs to consider that Hill is a bit flakey and is only a relationship bust-up away from running home again.
If they get a second round pick , they have come out of the whole thing ahead.
If they get a first rounder they are are laughing.

Scenario : Saints give up pick 5 for Hill. Hill returns to West Coast in 2021 for second round pick. Say it couldn't happen!!!
 

Virgin Dog

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Do you feel that pick 14 for Bruce straight up is a fair deal?

What's the general feeling amongst your support on what he is worth?
I think it's slight overs, and wouldn't happen unless we got absolutely desperate (i.e. didn't pick up any talls and it gets to the last day of the trade period). Among our supporter base, I've found most seem to agree that he's worth anywhere around Pick 17-25. Depending on where we finish and what the Saints other trade targets are, I could see a trade of our 2nd and one of our 3rds (Pick 30 + Pick 41). On draft points, this is roughly Pick 17, but it's split between two picks which allows for on-trading for the Saints other targets. This allows the Saints to turn Bruce into something like Zak Jones + Hugh Greenwood, while allowing the Dogs to retain their 1st (which will most likely be gone for Jack Martin if he does choose us). The issue with us involving our 1st is that we'd likely want something coming back, but Saints don't have a 2nd or 3rd
 

pebblesofsand

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Let's be clear... it is not the club making these noises. It is media speculation, no doubt encouraged by player managers and driven as truth by supporters on social medai.

The fact is that Bruceyhas a year left on his deal.

So it's pretty reasonable to think that his manager instigates talks with the Dogs in order to put pressure on StK to extend him now. The club either does that or realised this may be an opportunity to take advantage of. A month out from trade week (and probably a day out from the new coach being announced) why the rush to do anything?

So before you throw around accusations like 'sham', maybe look at how and why these rumours start.
Yep - starting point is the modern reality that every player is tradeable for the right deal.

I doubt we will entertain a trade for Bruce unless its mega bonus for us.(ie Pick 12 and Lipinski)

Bruce has played as our sole tall forward this year and to suggest we would trade him for an OK deal on the basis that Battle, King or Ryder could magically fill the gap is fanciful.

Battle is an undersized forward, King hasn't played a game and Ryder is heading to the retirement village.
 

tomsimpkin31

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Fremantle only paid pick 23 for Hill, they leveraged the bulls**t go-home factor in their favour. ( pick 23, Cox played one game for the Lions this year ).
I don't give a rat's what is perceived as fair for them under the current circumstance, and anything we give up needs to consider that Hill is a bit flakey and is only a relationship bust-up away from running home again.
If they get a second round pick , they have come out of the whole thing ahead.
If they get a first rounder they are are laughing.

Scenario : Saints give up pick 5 for Hill. Hill returns to West Coast in 2021 for second round pick. Say it couldn't happen!!!
He's clearly a better player than he was three years ago. His value then is pointless. We got Bruce for something like pick 48 didn't we? I'm sure we'll expect more now.

You don't have to give a rats bout what's fair. None of us do. But the theme on this board at times is setting ourselves up for disappointment.

If he wants to come to us, we'll have made a commitment to get the deal done. He's going to cost more than the mid teens pick people think he is.
 

SaintsSeptember

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Who wants to come to Melbourne ? Brad Hill does. What happens at Freo if they play hardball? What happens at StKilda if we play hardball.
Who wants Bruce at the Bulldogs? The Bulldogs do. What happens at StKilda if we play hardball. What happens at the dogs if they play hardball.

Cmon guys, channel that inner Dodoro.
 

SaintsSeptember

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He's clearly a better player than he was three years ago. His value then is pointless. We got Bruce for something like pick 48 didn't we? I'm sure we'll expect more now.

You don't have to give a rats bout what's fair. None of us do. But the theme on this board at times is setting ourselves up for disappointment.

If he wants to come to us, we'll have made a commitment to get the deal done. He's going to cost more than the mid teens pick people think he is.
Its ok Brad , if the flogs you work for ask for all of our draft picks, jade gresham, and jack billings, we'll get the deal done.
Yeah right.

The Saints need to approach it as , "what is he worth" not "what do we have "
I'd love to play poker against you.
 
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