List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread - Part III

[Diehard Saint]

Correct but isn’t the discussion around what’s best for Jack?

I’m just suggesting that going to Geelong is maybe not the best thing for him.

He doesn’t seem like the type motivated by the hype of afl.

I just don’t see present-day Jack and Chris Scott as a match made in heaven.

 

[BrutThough]

They need someone to replace hawk who's 31 and coming to the end but probably get a year or two out of him. Bruce would kick as many goals as Hawk with a good midfield in front of him. Bruce was only about 12 behind Kennedy with a midfield that couldn't hit him on the tit if they tried.

Bruce has to work up the field and ruck with us as well so possibly even do better. I think he'll embarrass a few when he gets to the dogs.

I think you are overrating Bruce a bit here and blaming a lot of his averageness on our midfield rather than acknowledging his inability to hold a mark every second week, his hit or miss kicking and his pertinacity to go missing despite ample opportunity.

And yes, Bruce has to work up the field like every single forward in the competition, and ruck at times. No matter which team he goes to, he will be expected to do this.

 

[karaoke]

No reason a Steven > Geelong trade can’t be a Win-Win-Win for all parties.

Just needs to be worked through.

 

[gringo2011]

Dont totally agree with that.
Firstly,just on the Fwds, if Bruce leaves he is replaced by M.King.
I understand King hasnt played yet due to injury,but if he lives up to his Nickname we should not lose out in that area.
On the Midfield,if Hannebery(who is all class) plays a Full Season or even 90% of the games thats a bonus.
Hill will add bucket loads of Talent to the Team.
Bytel is very much an unknown talent at this stage missing a full season due to his back.
Jack by all reports was a Top 10 pick if not injured.
Our Midfield will not be poor in 2020 if they all stay Healthy.
Jones can be added to that list as well.While many on here say he is a terrible kick and dont want him.He reguarly gets the ball.
Marshall will also get to be even better in the Ruck than he was in 2019
Those additions will improve our Midfield big time.

The midfield is poor compared to others because of the lack of top end talent. Stuv was our best but he'll be gone. Hanners was AA quality but hasn't been great since 2016- it's going to take luck for him to get back to that, Hill is A grade but not a superstar, Dunstan is serviceable, Gresham is serviceable as a mid, Steele is good but not a star, Ross is good but not a star. Marshall is probably the only one that other sides would lust after IMO. Comparing it to a side like the Dogs who have Mc Crae who racks up 35 possessions a week, Bont who is superstar, Dunkley who has become elite, Brodie Smith who looks a gun and another 5 or so that are all good quality but not stars. English also who looks like Marshall's equal in young ruck stocks.

We need guys like Hunter Clark to come in and become a superstar mid to progress.

 

[gringo2011]

I think you are overrating Bruce a bit here and blaming a lot of his averageness on our midfield rather than acknowledging his inability to hold a mark every second week, his hit or miss kicking and his pertinacity to go missing despite ample opportunity.

And yes, Bruce has to work up the field like every single forward in the competition, and ruck at times. No matter which team he goes to, he will be expected to do this.

I think everyone would acknowledge that we drop the ball on him and never hit him lace out on a lead. We will see anyway, it looks like he's gone so we can actually measure it next year. I'd put him down for 50 goals at the Dogs. Bruce is a work horse and fill gaps all down the field and backup rucks. Imagine how many forwards have had to do that and still be the focal point. He will make a difference to our side. Without him we only won 4 matches and had Stuv at full flight and membery kicked less goals than Gresham.

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

I’m starting to warm on Z Jones. I thought he was 4 years older than he really is. Think there’s room for improvement but if he does improve it’ll make the team better.

Yeah a few have scoffed at him but our list is meh. I think he is easily straight into our top 10 best players. So he'd be a plus.

 

[Jade Buddha]

The midfield is poor compared to others because of the lack of top end talent. Stuv was our best but he'll be gone. Hanners was AA quality but hasn't been great since 2016- it's going to take luck for him to get back to that, Hill is A grade but not a superstar, Dunstan is serviceable, Gresham is serviceable as a mid, Steele is good but not a star, Ross is good but not a star. Marshall is probably the only one that other sides would lust after IMO. Comparing it to a side like the Dogs who have Mc Crae who racks up 35 possessions a week, Bont who is superstar, Dunkley who has become elite, Brodie Smith who looks a gun and another 5 or so that are all good quality but not stars. English also who looks like Marshall's equal in young ruck stocks.

We need guys like Hunter Clark to come in and become a superstar mid to progress.

Think you are taking an overly pessimistic view of our squad and an overly optimistic view of the dogs squad
Reality lies in the middle somewhere

 

[BrutThough]

I think everyone would acknowledge that we drop the ball on him and never hit him lace out on a lead. We will see anyway, it looks like he's gone so we can actually measure it next year. I'd put him down for 50 goals at the Dogs. Bruce is a work horse and fill gaps all down the field and backup rucks. Imagine how many forwards have had to do that and still be the focal point. He will make a difference to our side. Without him we only won 4 matches and had Stuv at full flight and membery kicked less goals than Gresham.

We do that at times, but there are also many times a game we kick the ball to the right spot and Bruce drops an easy mark or just gets overworked by a better defender. Full blame can't be put on the midfield. Bruce's own faults need acknowledged as well.

Membrey was injured last year - knee injury and it affected his kicked for about a month when he came back from it, and because of our other injuries had to play on the oppositions best defender for most of the year. If we play King plus Ryder or even Battle who will be more dangerous after a year down in defence, it puts him on a defender closer to his size which will favour him.

And by saying he will kick 50 goals for the dogs - only 6 players kicked over 50 goals this year. Do you honestly think Bruce will be a top 6 forward next season? Because on all evidence available throughout his career, I would say he won't be. He will be a loss but he isn't the different between us winning and losing every game next season.

 

[jimmytigs]

re steven,assuming he is all but gone and we arent going to get better than a pick in the 30s for him,like pretty much every so called expert(as opposed to the defenitly non experts here)keep saying,how about that and abbott or z.smith thrown in with the pick?surplus at geelong,but we do need 1 more ruck on the list after marshall & ryder & at least these guys are ready to go when required

 

[Jade Buddha]

Just on Bruce if he was truely that good, rose coloured glasses off, wouldn’t pick 12 be a certainty.
Dogs clearly don’t rate him there or they’d be offering us the pick.

 

[gringo2011]

Think you are taking an overly pessimistic view of our squad and an overly optimistic view of the dogs squad
Reality lies in the middle somewhere

Dogs won't win a premiership next year but should play finals. They are very young and probably not ready but they have elite players through the midfield. Need another couple of talls, forwards and probably another gun rebound defender to free up JJ but they are well ahead of us. They have elite players we have GOPs by the dozen, we are more evenly spread but nowhere near their top end.

We will improve but not going to do much in the jumping up the ladder without Stuv and Bruce off setting the ins. It's not set in stone, several players already on the list and a healthy injury list could make us very competitive but it's not likely.

 

[gringo2011]

We do that at times, but there are also many times a game we kick the ball to the right spot and Bruce drops an easy mark or just gets overworked by a better defender. Full blame can't be put on the midfield. Bruce's own faults need acknowledged as well.

Membrey was injured last year - knee injury and it affected his kicked for about a month when he came back from it, and because of our other injuries had to play on the oppositions best defender for most of the year. If we play King plus Ryder or even Battle who will be more dangerous after a year down in defence, it puts him on a defender closer to his size which will favour him.

And by saying he will kick 50 goals for the dogs - only 6 players kicked over 50 goals this year. Do you honestly think Bruce will be a top 6 forward next season? Because on all evidence available throughout his career, I would say he won't be. He will be a loss but he isn't the different between us winning and losing every game next season.

yeah, I think with good supply and not having to be a Mr Fixit all over the ground he'd be a very good forward. He did it when we had Roo to take the best defender and played him as a deep FF. You don't see Tom Lynch up in defence to take the kick in mark then being the back up ruck. He's had to be more than he should be to cover our lack of depth.

Anyway we will see next year.

 

[DT_35]

Just on Bruce if he was truely that good, rose coloured glasses off, wouldn’t pick 12 be a certainty.
Dogs clearly don’t rate him there or they’d be offering us the pick.

Yeh I mean they are offering him a 4 year deal on decent coin, probably coz he’s no good right....?

 

[gringo2011]

Just on Bruce if he was truely that good, rose coloured glasses off, wouldn’t pick 12 be a certainty.
Dogs clearly don’t rate him there or they’d be offering us the pick.

Who says they won't?

 

[Jade Buddha]

Dogs won't win a premiership next year but should play finals. They are very young and probably not ready but they have elite players through the midfield. Need another couple of talls, forwards and probably another gun rebound defender to free up JJ but they are well ahead of us. They have elite players we have GOPs by the dozen, we are more evenly spread but nowhere near their top end.

We will improve but not going to do much in the jumping up the ladder without Stuv and Bruce off setting the ins. It's not set in stone, several players already on the list and a healthy injury list could make us very competitive but it's not likely.

Yep they’ve got a nice little engine room but a way less than great forward line and Bruce won’t lift to more than around 40 goals a game which means not much of an increase in output given he’ll replace someone.

I also think our defence is way better than theirs when fit and healthy. Battle will keep getting better and represents a someone that can have a huge impact next year.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Yeh I mean they are offering him a 4 year deal on decent coin, probably coz he’s no good right....?

Did I say he was no good?
I think he is good but not great. His marking is his asset. Ground work is ordinary.
So tell me why they wouldn’t offer pick 12?

 

[Jade Buddha]

Who says they won't?

Pretty much everyone
Our supporters, their supporters, the media

 

[CALL ME SNAKE]

Nowdays its got less to do with what a player is worth but more so what a club is prepared to give to get him.
I can see ' paying overs' happening a lot more often now.

 

[PostmanBish]

I just don’t see present-day Jack and Chris Scott as a match made in heaven.

I can't imagine any scenario where playing for Chris Scott would be a mental-health positive. It's likely also fair to say that Stuv won't receive the same latitude as an "expensive recruit" from the Geelong fans who just watched another minor premiership evaporate in the prelim, as he does from the St Kilda faithful, being a "4 time B&F and beloved son of the club".

If he really wants to have that inflicted on him, we should definitely work to facilitate it, but we should send him to the beach with a bucket of dimmies, a slab, and a fishing rod while the club goes hammer-and-tongs at Geelong until it gets a fair offer for what Stuv has left to offer that club ... and based on the last 3 weeks, there's still plenty there if he gets fit and motivated.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Bruce has been a good get for us and may yet stay at the saints if we don’t get what we want for him but if you are being honest here our forward line needs better. We need change and an improved midfield won’t turn him from a good toiler to a great forward.

He’s a guy that’s got the most out of himself through effort/work rate. I’ve been one of his biggest fans because he really gives you his best effort every time and we have had some seriously ordinary efforts from some this year.
I’d like to keep him but right now at this time he represents our only potential on the trade table. At probably the best we’ll get for him.

 

[Keg on legs]

Our overall depth is just about the best I've ever seen it in my nearly 50 years of following this club. What we lack is one or 2 superstars. Whether we grow our own or can attract some only time will tell. But inject a couple of top tier guns into our 22 and we are looking very good imo.

I'm bullish for where we are heading

 

[gringo2011]

Pretty much everyone
Our supporters, their supporters, the media

No offence but most of our supporters are dumb, we have been conditioned to accept what ever the club does no matter how stupid and sell it to ourselves as a positive. We are nearly as bad as we were in the 80s and we still fight among ourselves about how much more or less resilient we are for putting up with mediocrity like it's a huge badge of honour. I'm pretty sure Ralph was stirring up trouble and winding Saints fans up by saying we'd sell him for nothing. The club is going to struggle to get anyone to games if they don't start to progress. Memberships will start to go at some point.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I can't imagine any scenario where playing for Chris Scott would be a mental-health positive. It's likely also fair to say that Stuv won't receive the same latitude as an "expensive recruit" from the Geelong fans who just watched another minor premiership evaporate in the prelim, as he does from the St Kilda faithful, being a "4 time B&F and beloved son of the club".

If he really wants to have that inflicted on him, we should definitely work to facilitate it, but we should send him to the beach with a bucket of dimmies, a slab, and a fishing rod while the club goes hammer-and-tongs at Geelong until it gets a fair offer for what Stuv has left to offer that club ... and based on the last 3 weeks, there's still plenty there if he gets fit and motivated.

Yep if we are really serious about our concerns for Jacks health ensuring he doesn't end up in the fishbowl of Geelong should be our first priority.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Any update on Ben King?

He’s on his end of season break.

Probably just flying to a few dream destinations

 

[Jade Buddha]

No offence but most of our supporters are dumb, we have been conditioned to accept what ever the club does no matter how stupid and sell it to ourselves as a positive. We are nearly as bad as we were in the 80s and we still fight among ourselves about how much more or less resilient we are for putting up with mediocrity like it's a huge badge of honour. I'm pretty sure Ralph was stirring up trouble and winding Saints fans up by saying we'd sell him for nothing. The club is going to struggle to get anyone to games if they don't start to progress. Memberships will start to go at some point.

I don’t take offence G, happy to be told I’m wrong but I really think the culture you are speaking of is not St.Kildas alone. All we can do as a group of supporters or any group of supporters starved for success is back those coming in to start getting it right. Seems like they are moving in the right direction.
With regards to Bruce, yes he’s probably our best tall target atm but we need reshaping and we need trade currency.
He won’t get much better and we need better. I’m actually in the camp the rates Battle as a forward with better potential than Bruce. We have a good backline already without him.