List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

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gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
23,626
50,573
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Collingwood also have no cap left.


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Bah ha ha, Collingwood and cap? There are rumours doing the rounds that a substantial gambling debt was paid outside the cap. Essendon also gave Shiel an interest in a property company outside the cap. Essendon also got to pay players outside the cap as "compensation". The AFL don't actually care about it any more. Just do what big business does with tax and get creative.
 

mightymalaka

What we have here is a failure to communicate!
May 7, 2018
5,158
15,706
Road to Nowhere
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The reality is we have to spend the money in our cap anyway or at least 95% of it!
So we might as well just go for it and try and get anyone and everyone that comes avail who will improve us ( emphasis on the improve us )
Billings will get a very generous offer no doubt, so up to him whether he values his club and team mates and wants to repay that faith!
We also have a pretty ordinary hand, draft picks wise so it's inevitable that big changes will have to be made re trading players out
In order to get the ones we want in! So favourites will be sacrificed, as to who they are is anybody's guess at the moment!

But one thing i know is that i will feel better giving some young talent that comes in some of that compensation rather than
Keep giving it to under performing players currently at the club that don't deserve it frankly, for they are the reason we are in this mess
As we have been a poor team for too long!

Second half of this year will be very interesting as to who stands up and wants to be a part of the future of the StKilda footy club
As there is no doubt if they impress with the money we have to spend all will be compensated extremely well!
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
15,502
28,392
AFL Club
St Kilda
Which FAs did we miss out on?

Fyfe, Dusty, an OOC Kelly.

Why didn’t we get them?

Because they didn’t move.

Why?

Because their clubs were suddenly able to afford to re-sign them.

You’re right though, nothing to do with list management at all




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Mate I gave you a list of players that moved. There literally was no difference before or after the cap change. Players still moved.

It's rare big name out of contract players move to begin with. Its why we didnt lose roo when gold coast had literally 2m a year to throw at him.

But hey like you said we have a bunch of cap space available. There will be no sudden increase by the AFL that you claimed stopped us before. So there should be no reason we can't get a gun this time right!
 

St Muir

Team Captain
Oct 18, 2018
432
1,501
AFL Club
St Kilda
The reality is we have to spend the money in our cap anyway or at least 95% of it!
So we might as well just go for it and try and get anyone and everyone that comes avail who will improve us ( emphasis on the improve us )
Billings will get a very generous offer no doubt, so up to him whether he values his club and team mates and wants to repay that faith!
We also have a pretty ordinary hand, draft picks wise so it's inevitable that big changes will have to be made re trading players out
In order to get the ones we want in! So favourites will be sacrificed, as to who they are is anybody's guess at the moment!

But one thing i know is that i will feel better giving some young talent that comes in some of that compensation rather than
Keep giving it to under performing players currently at the club that don't deserve it frankly, for they are the reason we are in this mess
As we have been a poor team for too long!

Second half of this year will be very interesting as to who stands up and wants to be a part of the future of the StKilda footy club
As there is no doubt if they impress with the money we have to spend all will be compensated extremely well!
This sums it up really well. We've got a crap draft hand, some ordinary players that aren't improving and a handful of promising players we can build around. Yes, we are still rebuilding whether people like it or not. To do that, some of the ordinary players will have to be traded. I'd rather we got on the front foot and build a list that can win a premiership. We've already lost a few years not being ruthless enough and if we continue on this path we'll be mid-table at best with no prospects. Purgatory awaiting extinction.
 

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Oct 4, 2011
18,876
47,480
AFL Club
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This sums it up really well. We've got a crap draft hand, some ordinary players that aren't improving and a handful of promising players we can build around. Yes, we are still rebuilding whether people like it or not. To do that, some of the ordinary players will have to be traded. I'd rather we got on the front foot and build a list that can win a premiership. We've already lost a few years not being ruthless enough and if we continue on this path we'll be mid-table at best with no prospects. Purgatory awaiting extinction.
Also agree. Time we got serious and made players accountable.

One thing for certain is that next year under a new coach, people will see pretty quickly where players are at.

Just as a rising tide lifts all the boats, a falling tide quickly exposes those who aren't wearing shorts or bathers.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
23,626
50,573
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Examples please


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Selling Mc Evoy for picks/ Savage, not offering Dal a contract when he waned to stay, low balling BJ, giving Hawthorn a first rounder that got the O'Meara done for Clark who doesn't seem much better than the players who went around our pick from the year before. Stanley for Hugh Goddard, Freeman for a second round pick, selling Mc Evoy then paying overs for Hickey and Longer, perpetually using future picks but still not getting a huge reward for it.

I would say our best talent has all been in the draft and we waste a lot anyway. Marshall was drafted, Gresham was drafted, Billings drafted, King was drafted. The only one that wasn't a high pick was Mashall. We should be using our high picks on best available talent unless we are getting an A+ mid for the pick.

We apparently got timid with how much we were willing to offer some of our FA targets, if we have a war chest just front load offer a contract to a player like Coniglio and worst case it makes life very hard for GWS to retain talent later.
 

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St Muir

Team Captain
Oct 18, 2018
432
1,501
AFL Club
St Kilda
Also agree. Time we got serious and made players accountable.

One thing for certain is that next year under a new coach, people will see pretty quickly where players are at.

Just as a rising tide lifts all the boats, a falling tide quickly exposes those who aren't wearing shorts or bathers.
'a falling tide quickly exposes those who aren't wearing shorts or bathers'. I've never heard that expression before, very funny!
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
23,626
50,573
Melbourne
AFL Club
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Caldwell looks fantastic when fit, I was really hoping we’d find a way to get an extra first last year and pick him.

We went another way and it didn’t happen but this kid will be a gun and I’d happily swap our first pick or a player for him. There was some talk he was homesick and wanted out, if that’s true you’d hope we’d be at the head of the line and prepared to pay what he’s worth.

If we do a medical (independent and external) and he's okay we should look at him but I would be offering a future pick for him before a player, we have nothing GWS would want unless we over paid with a player we can't afford to lose.

I don't think we can trade any more picks out of this draft so it has to be a future pick. I liked him too but offering crazy overs for an untried player doesn't look close to what a professional list management team would do. It looks like the Stocker trade from last year where if it doesn't work out we open ourselves up to a lot of pressure.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
23,626
50,573
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
The reality is we have to spend the money in our cap anyway or at least 95% of it!
So we might as well just go for it and try and get anyone and everyone that comes avail who will improve us ( emphasis on the improve us )
Billings will get a very generous offer no doubt, so up to him whether he values his club and team mates and wants to repay that faith!
We also have a pretty ordinary hand, draft picks wise so it's inevitable that big changes will have to be made re trading players out
In order to get the ones we want in! So favourites will be sacrificed, as to who they are is anybody's guess at the moment!

But one thing i know is that i will feel better giving some young talent that comes in some of that compensation rather than
Keep giving it to under performing players currently at the club that don't deserve it frankly, for they are the reason we are in this mess
As we have been a poor team for too long!

Second half of this year will be very interesting as to who stands up and wants to be a part of the future of the StKilda footy club
As there is no doubt if they impress with the money we have to spend all will be compensated extremely well!

One good thing about a new coach is that we will see a few players start playing for their careers.
 

VDS66

Brownlow Medallist
Suspended
Oct 4, 2011
18,876
47,480
AFL Club
St Kilda
Selling Mc Evoy for picks/ Savage, not offering Dal a contract when he waned to stay, low balling BJ, giving Hawthorn a first rounder that got the O'Meara done for Clark who doesn't seem much better than the players who went around our pick from the year before. Stanley for Hugh Goddard, Freeman for a second round pick, selling Mc Evoy then paying overs for Hickey and Longer, perpetually using future picks but still not getting a huge reward for it.

I would say our best talent has all been in the draft and we waste a lot anyway. Marshall was drafted, Gresham was drafted, Billings drafted, King was drafted. The only one that wasn't a high pick was Mashall. We should be using our high picks on best available talent unless we are getting an A+ mid for the pick.

We apparently got timid with how much we were willing to offer some of our FA targets, if we have a war chest just front load offer a contract to a player like Coniglio and worst case it makes life very hard for GWS to retain talent later.
Are we going back that far? OK...

Robbo, Bruce and Membrey for peanuts.

Jake, great trade.

Your boy Ross drafted. So were Acres - who like the 2nd coming of Jesus could also take over 2000 years and still not arrive - Dunstan and a few others.
 

bird_man

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 14, 2012
19,065
33,613
The River Murray
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I wouldnt pay that much for billings hes done nothing to deserve it. 600k absolute max. If he doesnt take it then see ya later.
Haha. So we let him walk for a few extra dollars at the same time we are happy to pay overs to get players in...

At a time where we are desperate for outside mids that can kick...
 

The_Steadier

Norm Smith Medallist
May 6, 2009
5,812
10,097
AFL Club
St Kilda
Also agree. Time we got serious and made players accountable.

One thing for certain is that next year under a new coach, people will see pretty quickly where players are at.

Just as a rising tide lifts all the boats, a falling tide quickly exposes those who aren't wearing shorts or bathers.

On the contrary I think we are seeing where our players are at right now.

A whole group of honest solid toilers, nothing more or less.

That could be the base for a successful team- any delicious baked cake is comprised of mostly boring old flour and water.

But without any flavour or fun stuff, it's not much of a cake.



In the ross lyon years we had plenty of flour and water types- but they were of course the wind beneath the wings of our star brigade.

We're still well short of stars even in a very hypothetical situation where say hanners, steven and carlisle get back to full fitness (robbo and paddy are done), and maximus king is a riewoldt-esque rising star winner.

I am not in love with the cho, I genuinely couldn't care if he stays or goes... but I think with the puzzle pieces he's got to work with- he's doing as well any anyone would be.

I think he's got this group playing a game style that suits them best- the problem is that their best is only good enough for midtable.
Can't get blood from a stone.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
23,626
50,573
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
This sums it up really well. We've got a crap draft hand, some ordinary players that aren't improving and a handful of promising players we can build around. Yes, we are still rebuilding whether people like it or not. To do that, some of the ordinary players will have to be traded. I'd rather we got on the front foot and build a list that can win a premiership. We've already lost a few years not being ruthless enough and if we continue on this path we'll be mid-table at best with no prospects. Purgatory awaiting extinction.

We can't really afford to sell the new rebuild to members. Players will be leaving next year just through attrition and losing too many at once will make even baselining hard. The new coach is going to have to be tough, I reckon who ever comes in is going to struggle to be anything but bottom 4 especially if we trade away GOPs who lets face it will get second rounders at best.

Our best trade prospects would be Billings, Gresham, Marshall, Ross as first rounders. Membrey, Steele, Bruce, Parker second rounders, Acres, Dunstan etc probably thirds, Longer, Pierce etc all delisted FAs. Newnes would be a FA so probably second round compo pick.

To me we can't afford to lose anyone that is in the first round group and the second round group are worth more to us than the trade is worth.
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
23,626
50,573
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
Are we going back that far? OK...

Robbo, Bruce and Membrey for peanuts.

Jake, great trade.

Your boy Ross drafted. So were Acres - who like the 2nd coming of Jesus could also take over 2000 years and still not arrive - Dunstan and a few others.

Don't really know what your point is. We are good at drafting and trades? Jake worked out because Gresham was a great get. Jake has really not played that many games for us yet, pretty much lost two full years from suspension or injury. Great when he gets on the park though.

Last year we traded out a lot of this years picks and sold Hickey off when he was the pick of the playing rucks, even as a back up he would have offered more than the two we kept. I think we don't do list management in a sensible way.
 

pebblesofsand

Premiership Player
Oct 18, 2011
4,418
10,402
AFL Club
St Kilda
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If we are looking at things to do just to meet the salary cap requirements, I'd rather re-list past players like Barry Breen, Bruce Duperouzel etc etc who saved the club in the 80's by forgoing wages owed to them rather than pay extra's for current players who aren't performing up to standard.

Barry Breen 1 year rookie contract $600K
 

gringo2011

Premium Gold
Nov 12, 2011
23,626
50,573
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
On the contrary I think we are seeing where our players are at right now.

A whole group of honest solid toilers, nothing more or less.

That could be the base for a successful team- any delicious baked cake is comprised of mostly boring old flour and water.

But without any flavour or fun stuff, it's not much of a cake.



In the ross lyon years we had plenty of flour and water types- but they were of course the wind beneath the wings of our star brigade.

We're still well short of stars even in a very hypothetical situation where say hanners, steven and carlisle get back to full fitness (robbo and paddy are done), and maximus king is a riewoldt-esque rising star winner.

I am not in love with the cho, I genuinely couldn't care if he stays or goes... but I think with the puzzle pieces he's got to work with- he's doing as well any anyone would be.

I think he's got this group playing a game style that suits them best- the problem is that their best is only good enough for midtable.
Can't get blood from a stone.

Richmond are made up of a bulk of solid Bs and a few really high end players, WC as well have a lot of solid if unspectacular players.

We need to get some really high end talent to off set the soldiers.

If King, Gresham, Marshall and Billings can become elite and we draft a gun mid or two in the next two drafts there is no reason we can't be good enough. To me you keep the best of what you have and only trade out or push the starting 22 players out as you get a better prospect already showing enough. Then you have surplus and can move on players. We are in a position where we don't have much to trade out any more without making us worse in the short term.

Draft well with what we have and we are alright IMO.
 

The_Steadier

Norm Smith Medallist
May 6, 2009
5,812
10,097
AFL Club
St Kilda
If we are looking at things to do just to meet the salary cap requirements, I'd rather re-list past players like Barry Breen, Bruce Duperouzel etc etc who saved the club in the 80's by forgoing wages owed to them rather than pay extra's for current players who aren't performing up to standard.

Barry Breen 1 year rookie contract $600K

ahaha- legend. I love that idea.
 

mightymalaka

What we have here is a failure to communicate!
May 7, 2018
5,158
15,706
Road to Nowhere
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Manchester United
We can't really afford to sell the new rebuild to members. Players will be leaving next year just through attrition and losing too many at once will make even baselining hard. The new coach is going to have to be tough, I reckon who ever comes in is going to struggle to be anything but bottom 4 especially if we trade away GOPs who lets face it will get second rounders at best.

Our best trade prospects would be Billings, Gresham, Marshall, Ross as first rounders. Membrey, Steele, Bruce, Parker second rounders, Acres, Dunstan etc probably thirds, Longer, Pierce etc all delisted FAs. Newnes would be a FA so probably second round compo pick.

To me we can't afford to lose anyone that is in the first round group and the second round group are worth more to us than the trade is worth.
So from that list there Gringo who do we trade then?
We have just signed up Gresham and Marshall for quite a while and there is no way either those 2 go anywhere!
Of the 2nd rounder group, cannot see the club letting go of Membrey, Steele or Parker esp after 1 year
And the 3rd rounders are completely pointless to trade as they have no value!

So that leaves us with Billings, Ross and Bruce.....Pretty sure if the club have their way they will want Billings to stay and will offer him
A substantial contract that he is unlikely to get elsewhere, so that one looks to up to the player!
Which leaves Ross and Bruce! From what i can tell they are def the two most likely to be traded if we want to get in some fresh
Identified talent as we have a crap hand at the draft, so it's either for 1st or 2nd round picks or more likely any one that we can
Attract that is an upgrade outside of the Free agents of course!
As you have pointed out there will be plenty going either through natural attrition, forced retirements and just plain retirements
Plus Newnes possibly to Free Agency!

See what i mean about having to give up something tangible to get something decent!
Of course there is also the chance of Steven or Carlisle leaving for greener pastures! Personally i believe that both will stay, maybe Steven
But i hope not but that's it!
So yeah it's fine to say let's just go to the draft but we have sh!t low picks, so sadly for any fans that have become too attached to
The two mentioned, something has got to give bud!
It's not ideal but it's where we are at unfortunately!
 
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