List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[plugger66]

Would you expect your employer to take a hit to their business to solve your personal issues they have nothing to do with?

No but if they could send him somewhere else to make him happy and also a potential replacement I reckon they would do it. Doesn’t help the business with them sitting home and they still pay him.

 

[Mikka84]

I’m very comfortable with us deciding last year to hold him. His situation was impossible to foresee and you can’t let players go on the off chance they go through what Steven has. If he’d not suffered mental health issues this year, there’s every chance he’d be in line for a 5th B&F and we’d be stoked.

Forget all the issues this year. Its more when a player wants out, they normally get there. I have the view if they want to go, let them and get the best deal available. They obviously, for whatever reason, don't want to be at the club anymore. Rarely ends well.

For what its worth, Jack has had a mental illness for many years. Just some circumstances this year flared the issue beyond reasonable help.

 

[pebblesofsand]

You always say it’s nonsence arguments but do you think the club would tell a player who still wants to play ones every game you will be back up and he goes that’s fine. If that is the case then get them if not why would they come to us. How does our ruck and forward set up work if both play? Nonsense would suggest you are right. When longer was fit this year you wanted him in yet the club held firm with one ruck. They will continue to do that.

No nonsense would be to argue that the club says to a player - come to us - you'll get a game every week - in your preferred position - irrespective of your form.

Surely you don't seriously believe that St Kilda should recruit on that basis?

Whether we have Goldstein, Jacobs, Ryder or some unknown ruckman joinn Marshall at the club - the message will be the same - if you're the best performing player in your position you will play seniors - if not you will play at Sandy.

Here's your contract - sign it if you agree!!!!

As for not asking because you think they might not agree to the challenge - talk about a recipe for mediocrity - here's me thinking you actually wanted the club to improve!!!!

And Longer - I'm only talking about other ruckmen because I'm assuming he (and Pierce) are gone because of concussion issues - if that's not the case I'm more than happy for him to be the "2nd" back up ruckman and then pursue a young prospect as the third option.

 

[VDS66]

Would you expect your employer to take a hit to their business to solve your personal issues they have nothing to do with?

Given I am the business owner, and also someone who has gone through what Jack is going through I'd be supporting him 100% regardless if he remains or goes.

Some things transcend money and business.

You strike me as the type that upon hearing of a kid overdosing would just say it's their fault for being an addict.

I hope I'm wrong but that's how you're coming across TBH.

 

[#gosaintas]

There's no real angst re. selection. Just angst about Jack going to Geelong for unders. If he's well enough to play for them then he's well enough to play for us unless we get market price for him. We've set him up financially, are still paying him a fortune for no return this year so it's a first rounder or see out your contract Jackie boy.

 

[plugger66]

No nonsense would be to argue that the club says to a player - come to us - you'll get a game every week - in your preferred position - irrespective of your form.

Surely you don't seriously believe that St Kilda should recruit on that basis?

Whether we have Goldstein, Jacobs, Ryder or some unknown ruckman joinn Marshall at the club - the message will be the same - if you're the best performing player in your position you will play seniors - if not you will play at Sandy.

Here's your contract - sign it if you agree!!!!

As for not asking because you think they might not agree to the challenge - talk about a recipe for mediocrity - here's me thinking you actually wanted the club to improve!!!!

And Longer - I'm only talking about other ruckmen because I'm assuming he (and Pierce) are gone because of concussion issues - if that's not the case I'm more than happy for him to be the "2nd" back up ruckman and then pursue a young prospect as the third option.

No they don’t say they will get a game but the player would say you have Marshall so where do I play with everyone fit. If you don’t think that well I’m surprised. The message won’t be the same at the clubs. If Goldstein went to a club without a ruck it’s different to him going to Collingwood. If Jacobs still wants to be first ruck he knows that going to a club with one already won’t work. Why do you think he wants to leave now?

 

[plugger66]

There's no real angst re. selection. Just angst about Jack going to Geelong for unders. If he's well enough to play for them then he's well enough to play for us unless we get market price for him. We've set him up financially, are still paying him a fortune for no return this year so it's a first rounder or see out your contract Jackie boy.

Every injured player gets paid. Nothing special there. As for not playing this week I certainly have no issue. He plays the moment he is ready. Obviously not ready yet

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

Having sowed the seeds in his mind that they want him and he can get there who knows what impact that has had?

No I don’t want the details I want the broad story not whispers and rumours, you know him well and that colours your view. It’s always a roller coaster of conflicting emotions when sport meets business, there’s jack the person and jack the football star contracted to St Kilda on big money.

I hope it works out for jack and I expect we’ll do the right thing within reason but I’ll never be happy with Geelongs part in this. Even if it was completely unrelated they have still attempted to induce a contracted player to break that contract, very poor form imo if the information oh here is true.

Lucky St Kilda have never tried to poach contracted players!

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Exactly, if Geelong try to take advantage of the situation, we call in the AFL, tell them we are willing but point out the Beams trade value.

This is a very good point. If any trade negotiations drag out and it goes to mediation, similar past trades will be looked at.

 

[Yawkey way]

Has Geelong spoken to jack.

That’s my point plugger, people like purple suggest Geelong are sniffing around and that’s what I have a problem with.

Jack has a problem which he works through with the club winds up at Geelong I’m comfortable with that. Not the smell that their part of our problem.

The AFL are out of control imo there are rules around what you can and can’t do why have them if the players, managers and clubs just ignore them and go unpunished.

Lucky St Kilda have never tried to poach contracted players!

Why have rules then ghost?

 

[bird_man]

Clearly every club tries to lure contracted players. That's the way it is these days. We aren't innocent.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

That’s my point plugger, people like purple suggest Geelong are sniffing around and that’s what I have a problem with.

Jack has a problem which he works through with the club winds up at Geelong I’m comfortable with that. Not the smell that their part of our problem.

The AFL are out of control imo there are rules around what you can and can’t do why have them if the players, managers and clubs just ignore them and go unpunished.


Why have rules then ghost?

What rules?
You’re allowed to ask contracted players management if they’re interested in a deal. It happens every week.
If the player is contracted then the club has the right to decline to deal.
What did we do with Hanners? We’ve done it with contracted players this year too.
It’s all fair.

 

[Yawkey way]

We've lost a number 1 draft pick for nothing and the world still turns and we are still in ok shape.

Missing out on a geelong 2nd rounder would hardly be a tragedy.

I would argue we would get that value back and more in future negotiations with other clubs recognising we wont bend over.

I think I’m pissed about it because I don’t want to punish jack but reward Geelong.

Maybe just whispers stirring up the clicks but I hate it.

 

[plugger66]

This is a very good point. If any trade negotiations drag out and it goes to mediation, similar past trades will be looked at.

It’s not similar but unfortunately the end result of beams may hurt that situation anyway

 

[The_Steadier]

No but if they could send him somewhere else to make him happy and also a potential replacement I reckon they would do it. Doesn’t help the business with them sitting home and they still pay him.

Its gonna hurt our business when jack steven kicks 3 goals and has 40 possies against us in an elimination final.

The least we can do is be fairly compensated for that damage given we have a valid and generous contract.

On that point- pure speculation, but I would expect that we have front loaded jacks money a lot over the last few years just to meet the cap minimum.

It would be an interesting factor if he's already been paid 400k of his 2020 800k wouldn't it?

This happened with GAJ at gold coast- GAJ pushed for a massive contract (the one after his initial GC one).

GC coughed up- 1 mill a year for 3 years, despite at that point he'd been very injured etc.
He then got most of the money paid in the first 18months front loaded.

Then a year into the contract, requested a trade, citing his genuine personal issues (which were existent during the time he was negotiating his new deal btw- it's not like it came up after he'd signed.)

GC denied his trade request and held him to his contract, but they came to the party in lots of other ways- as you would expect a responsible and compassionate employer would do.

We can be a compassionate, responsible employer for jack without resorting to giftwrapping him to a direct rival for peanuts.

 

[70s sainter]

Do you really believe an AFL club would recruit someone with giving them a medical?

No I wouldn’t but based on results so far we didn’t test him properly or our doctors have no idea . So which one is it ?

 

[plugger66]

That’s my point plugger, people like purple suggest Geelong are sniffing around and that’s what I have a problem with.

Jack has a problem which he works through with the club winds up at Geelong I’m comfortable with that. Not the smell that their part of our problem.

The AFL are out of control imo there are rules around what you can and can’t do why have them if the players, managers and clubs just ignore them and go unpunished.


Why have rules then ghost?

Geelong are obviously more than sniffing around just as we are with hill. I’m confused what the difference is. I can’t see any

 

[Yawkey way]

What rules?
You’re allowed to ask contracted players management if they’re interested in a deal. It happens every week.
If the player is contracted then the club has the right to decline to deal.
What did we do with Hanners? We’ve done it with contracted players this year too.
It’s all fair.

You can’t directly approach a player, I’m not clear on what you can do through a manager but I’d be surprised if you make offers.

 

[plugger66]

Its gonna hurt our business when jack steven kicks 3 goals and has 40 possies against us in an elimination final.

The least we can do is be fairly compensated for that damage given we have a valid and generous contract.

On that point- pure speculation, but I would expect that we have front loaded jacks money a lot over the last few years just to meet the cap minimum.

It would be an interesting factor if he's already been paid 400k of his 2020 800k wouldn't it?

This happened with GAJ at gold coast- GAJ pushed for a massive contract (the one after his initial GC one).

GC coughed up- 1 mill a year for 3 years, despite at that point he'd been very injured etc.
He then got most of the money paid in the first 18months front loaded.

Then a year into the contract, requested a trade, citing his genuine personal issues (which were existent during the time he was negotiating his new deal btw- it's not like it came up after he'd signed.)

GC denied his trade request and held him to his contract, but they came to the party in lots of other ways- as you would expect a responsible and compassionate employer would do.

We can be a compassionate, responsible employer for jack without resorting to giftwrapping him to a direct rival for peanuts.

All guess work but that’s the risk of front loading. Who is suggesting gift wrapping jack. I certainly haven’t. I’m just saying if he wants to go it will happen. A fair deal will be done but it won’t be near last years value.

 

[The_Steadier]

Forget all the issues this year. Its more when a player wants out, they normally get there.

No they dont when contracted.

Loads of contracted players request trades every year and don't go anywhere

 

[plugger66]

You can’t directly approach a player, I’m not clear on what you can do through a manager but I’d be surprised if you make offers.

You can do what you like through a manager. A player can’t sign anything

 

[Impatient Saint]

Geelong offered us a very good deal end of last year when jack said he would entertain a return back home.

We refused to do the deal. Now its come back around, he basically hasn't played for a year, the offer of course would be less.

Sometimes its better to do the deal if a player really wants out. They end up getting what they want end of the day anyway.

Totally agree what a stupid decision that has turned out to be for both Stuv & the club. I often wonder WTF goes on in our football club we have absolutely no forsight.

An early pick in last years draft would be like gold.

In the same breath they give a complete GOP like McKenzie a 3 year extension.

 

[Yawkey way]

Geelong are obviously more than sniffing around just as we are with hill. I’m confused what the difference is. I can’t see any

I wouldn’t be approaching contracted players mid contract it’s that simple.

If Geelong are as you say doing more than sniffing around then how is that responsible or reasonable behaviour.

 

[Mikka84]

No they dont when contracted.

Loads of contracted players request trades every year and don't go anywhere

Loads? Doubt it. Some, yes. Ones that have any power usually get to where they want to.

Making noise is completely different. Thats just a manager doing his job to get the best deal back from the club.

 

[BrutThough]

Totally agree what a stupid decision that has turned out to be for both Stuv & the club. I often wonder WTF goes on in our football club we have absolutely no forsight.

An early pick in last years draft would be like gold.

In the same breath they give a complete GOP like McKenzie a 3 year extension.

Yep, because after finishing third last it would have gone down very very well to let our best player walk out the club and into Geelong for a draft pick.