List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[triggering bro]

He did terrifically well with the picks he had in his first draft.

Seb, Newnes and Jimmy with pix 25, 37 and 43 in a compromised draft was a ripping return. All best dozen or so several years later.

Overall he’s done pretty damn well when you look at best 22 players he’s selected. Until this year it seemed he couldn’t nail a gun though. Billings & Gresham are now A grade & close to elite so his legacy is looking good. But gee he struggled drafting talls. I’m not sure if he oversaw the Lee draft/trade (probably did) but there was also Spencer White, Goddard & Paddy.

Edit: Marshall looking like his best tall. Clav hopefully comes on. King was under Libba’s watch.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

An average player will get you an average pick. If they are worth a good pick, why would you get rid of them for an unknown draftee?

Dmac would get you a 2nd at best. Why swap him for a pick 25 unknown that will take around 2-3 years to establish himself?

Doesn't make sense.

IE PLAYER AND A PICK FOR A BETTER PICK.

Why get rid of him. We aren't getting rid of him, i find that terminology insulting to the players.
Fact is we have a good list of B grade players. Lots of them. So many they won't all get games.

So we have a draft pick... picking random number.....lets say 26.
We trade 26 and Phillips for 18.

Or we trade 18 and phillips for 12.

This doesn't mean i hate Phillips , i think he'll be a good player.
I think we only have a few on the list that won't be good players.

 

[gringo2011]

I know you’re not big on Trout but I can’t overly fault his selections. I’ve always said it’s been more a development issue rather than recruitment. The Paddy pick & not taking Bonar the only selections I’m a bit dirty on. I reckon Bonar will be a beast in time.

As ARR said that first draft was excellent but there was a really long break before the next lot of any quality started to come through. He probably suffered from having to draft good boys over talent because he's probably drafted the least superstars of any other recruiter in a similar position and never seemed to get many that hit the ground running.

 

[StCicatriz]

Which is pretty much what I said... kids playing predominately as mids until the champs when they get pushed onto a flank, etc.

So it depends which way you look at it (or which way your cognitive bias runs). Either we're drafting kids & eventually playing them in their natural positions or we're hoping that a kid who's spent a season playing in another role can transition into an area of need.

i think it's as you've called it we are drafting based on a forecast on where they will play, however, there's a disconnect. once they're drafted they had the brief over to the coaches and that's it. they're pretty much done. the rest is up to the coaches.

so take paddy for example. he was forecast to be the guy up forward. the guy you build the forward line around. where if zones or the 6 6 6 rule comes in he has a greater crack at it. list manager and head recruiter pretty much make the call and let the debate unfold with the list committee. of which the senior coach is a member. but as richo has stated before, he can't weight in too heavily, he more ask's questions, because he hasn't had the time to build up a body of work to know that player and really challenge their views. but then we select him, hand him over to the football dept with their brief. then we get that infamous quote from richo commenting on his skinnies, where he questions if he will ever be able to make it given the circumstances.

so whilst the list manager and recruiter may see it like x y z with the players they have selected, it in actuality may end up as a b c after the coaches work with them and get a completely different opinion. without being there internally i suspect Josh Bruce, Jimmy Webster, Dan Mckenzie, Shane Savage and Blake Acres are all examples of this. i think we will have more.

 

[StCicatriz]

I don't believe that for a nano second.

of course you wouldn't its true though!

 

[Sir Skid]

Sydney can keep Buddy. That ship sailed as he's not the player he used to be.

Would upset our functioning fwd structure anyway.

 

[StCicatriz]

He did terrifically well with the picks he had in his first draft.

Seb, Newnes and Jimmy with pix 25, 37 and 43 in a compromised draft was a ripping return. All best dozen or so several years later.

was very consistent in delivering gold late. it's just he some absolute high profile howlers. also just became redundant for the role he was in. he knew nothing about contracts, tpp or modern analytical anaylsis. he was left behind tbh. seem to go ok as a draft recruiter. not sure about the rest. when ameet left it started to become obvious he needed help there i reckon.

hence the move to the banker, even though i'm not sold on him nor the approach the club has taken.

would be interesting looking at his performance in the 2nd round. that seems to be his death zone.

 

[Shred]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...g/news-story/76f6b903b4c1d8212022ba80e0662ad2

Thats an interesting read

Great article thanks for posting.

This is huge for the club. You always want to stay ahead of the curve. Sounds like they have the right guys making the decisions going forward.

Trout was old school, picked some players based on being “a good kid who is family oriented”. Going with his gut “we’ve got a good feeling with this player”. Passed up on talent at times. Paddy for me was this type of selection, an old school one lead forward but fit the narrative above. Not a no.1 selection in the modern game imo.

Our new team was ahead of the curve last draft, getting in the mature aged guys with our last 5 picks. After the Bytel pick, this would have been where we thought the draft fell off. I think we’ll see this more and more from clubs going forward.

Stephen Wells is a guy that’s stayed ahead of the curve for a long time now. He’s been picking mature aged players for a number of years. Before that he was picking players with an asterisk against their name who’s talent was higher than draft selection like Selwood at 7 *bad knees (no.1 talent) and Stevie J *head case at 25 (Top 5 talent).

 

[VDS66]

Without rehashing old discussions.

Looking at this year so far, apart from the compromised draft years, which top 25 picks have been busts by Trout?

Obvious ones are Paddy and Dunstan for different reasons.

And before people get hyper about Dunstan, I think like Paddy he's just not suited to the modern game and will struggle IMO.

 

[Shred]

Without rehashing old discussions.

Looking at this year so far, apart from the compromised draft years, which top 25 picks have been busts by Trout?

Obvious ones are Paddy and Dunstan for different reasons.

And before people get hyper about Dunstan, I think like Paddy he's just not suited to the modern game and will struggle IMO.

Trout era top 25.

*Jury still out on 2016-2017

Bust
2012 - Wright (24), White (25)
2013 - Dunstan (17)
2014- Paddy (1), Goddard (21), McKenzie (22)

Middling
2013 - Acres (18) - will be a “boom” if he becomes more consistent


Boom
2011 - Ross (25)
2013 - Billings (3)
2015 - Gresham (18)

By my count
Boom: 3
Middling: 1
Bust: 6

Something that stands out is he only had two picks in the top 15 between 2011-16.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Trout era top 25.

*Jury still out on 2016-2017

Bust
2012 - Wright (24), White (25)
2013 - Dunstan (17)
2014- Paddy (1), Goddard (21), McKenzie (22)

Middling
2013 - Acres (18) - will be a “boom” if he becomes more consistent


Boom
2011 - Ross (25)
2013 - Billings (3)
2015 - Gresham (18)

By my count
Boom: 3
Middling: 1
Bust: 6

Something that stands out is he only had two picks in the top 15 between 2011-16.

That “bust” Mc Kenzie is looking pretty settled in our 22. ( concussion aside.)

White has been emergency lately (twice?) Not writing him off just yet either.
(Edit: OK, wrong White as pointed out by ARR)

Easy to put Paddy and Goddard in that category with hindsight, but no one can predict major injuries. Although the diabetes issue should have been a huge red flag, esp for a number one pick.

 

[aussierulesrules]

The White at 25 he was referring to was Spencer. Who had talent to burn, but not the application and also had a serious wrist injury when drafted and early days with us.

 

[Premium]

The White at 25 he was referring to was Spencer. Who had talent to burn, but not the application and also had a serious wrist injury when drafted and early days with us.

Brandon White will get his chance , he is still only 22 and now has the body to handle AFL footy.
With Brown and Geary in there 30s there careers don't have to long to go , so we will be looking for guys like White to slip into the team.
The best thing is we have young good replacements.
White 22 , Paton 20 , Wilkie 23 , McKenzie 23 , Marsh 23 , Battle 20 , Clavarino 20 , Joyce 22 , Austin 24
we will not have to worry about depth and atm we have Brown , Webster and Savage to lead the back line to help the young guys out.

Our list is looking strong - the only problem I see is if Bruce or Membery go down we will have to come up with another big forward.
Hopefully they will hold up until we can get Carlisle back fit enough to play and he could fill the void.
I feel King will most probably need a couple seasons before we can start expecting him to impact games.

 

[aussierulesrules]

It's pretty stiff for Brando that the ones who play his type role in the team are all going well and that most of the others in the VFL who are also going really well also play back there.

Otherwise he's obviously playing well enough to warrant a call-up (Hamill said he's had an outstanding 5 or 6 weeks on the club website yesty) and he's shown at times in his AFL games that he's got the talent to make it (his game v Port in Adelaide a couple of years ago in particular was terrific and much like Wilkie of late).

If we don't find a spot for him this year another club could do a lot worse than to grab him.

 

[Verdun66]

I don't know why but I've always had an irrational dislike of Karl, he's like someone bred Christopher Pine with Jason Ackermanis...well he's taken their levels of annoying and upped it anyway.

Played cricket with Karl in Perth for a couple of seasons back in the 80’s. Decent cricketer. Could make things happen. Lots of energy so he was a bit excitable and loved sledging. That could boil over a bit. He gave Kim Hagdorn an absolute gobful one day. Would have made future dealings with Perth journo Kim a bit tricky! I could see how people mightn’t like him, but I did enjoy him as a team mate.

I have said this before but also in that team were Don Pyke and James Brayshaw. Quite a bit younger than me. Loved cricket in Perth.

 

[Verdun66]

He ran the 20 metres in 3 seconds so it’s pretty damn good. Far from elite though. Trout doesn’t mind spinning a yarn.

What makes him look fast out of stoppages is his agility. He’s not only a straight line runner, he seems to move laterally quite a bit to create separation from the opponents.

He’s got that attribute of anticipation. He thinks faster than other people. Makes him look quicker but it is all upstairs. It is an innate ability he has.

 

[Ekomaira]

It's pretty stiff for Brando that the ones who play his type role in the team are all going well and that most of the others in the VFL who are also going really well also play back there.

Otherwise he's obviously playing well enough to warrant a call-up (Hamill said he's had an outstanding 5 or 6 weeks on the club website yesty) and he's shown at times in his AFL games that he's got the talent to make it (his game v Port in Adelaide a couple of years ago in particular was terrific and much like Wilkie of late).

If we don't find a spot for him this year another club could do a lot worse than to grab him.

would be sad to see him playing for another club. his family were so pumped when the Saints picked him up

 

[Ekomaira]

Played cricket with Karl in Perth for a couple of seasons back in the 80’s. Decent cricketer. Could make things happen. Lots of energy so he was a bit excitable and loved sledging. That could boil over a bit. He gave Kim Hagdorn an absolute gobful one day. Would have made future dealings with Perth journo Kim a bit tricky! I could see how people mightn’t like him, but I did enjoy him as a team mate.

I have said this before but also in that team were Don Pyke and James Brayshaw. Quite a bit younger than me. Loved cricket in Perth.

 

[Verdun66]

Brandon White will get his chance , he is still only 22 and now has the body to handle AFL footy.
With Brown and Geary in there 30s there careers don't have to long to go , so we will be looking for guys like White to slip into the team.
The best thing is we have young good replacements.
White 22 , Paton 20 , Wilkie 23 , McKenzie 23 , Marsh 23 , Battle 20 , Clavarino 20 , Joyce 22 , Austin 24
we will not have to worry about depth and atm we have Brown , Webster and Savage to lead the back line to help the young guys out.

Our list is looking strong - the only problem I see is if Bruce or Membery go down we will have to come up with another big forward.
Hopefully they will hold up until we can get Carlisle back fit enough to play and he could fill the void.
I feel King will most probably need a couple seasons before we can start expecting him to impact games.

I want King to come and debut in a semi final and kick 5 like Dermot did. Fairytale stuff.

 

[Verdun66]

Was about that time!

 

[VDS66]

Trout era top 25.

*Jury still out on 2016-2017

Bust
2012 - Wright (24), White (25)
2013 - Dunstan (17)
2014- Paddy (1), Goddard (21), McKenzie (22)

Middling
2013 - Acres (18) - will be a “boom” if he becomes more consistent


Boom
2011 - Ross (25)
2013 - Billings (3)
2015 - Gresham (18)

By my count
Boom: 3
Middling: 1
Bust: 6

Something that stands out is he only had two picks in the top 15 between 2011-16.

2012 was a compromised draft.

Goddard injured, same with Paddy.

That's just top 25.

 

[Keg on legs]

Watching the U18 team playing Casey Demons.

I think I want us to bundle up everything we have for Rowell. He would compliment our midfield beautifully

Our 1st (18) plus armo should do it right?

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Watching the U18 team playing Casey Demons.

I think I want us to bundle up everything we have for Rowell. He would compliment our midfield beautifully

Our 1st (18) plus armo should do it right?

Gawd, talk about over inflating our own. Would need to throw in Sam Gilbert.

 

[triggering bro]

Watching the U18 team playing Casey Demons.

I think I want us to bundle up everything we have for Rowell. He would compliment our midfield beautifully

Our 1st (18) plus armo should do it right?

Yea he looks bloody awesome. He’s like a less sooky & tougher version of Clayton Oliver. He’s ranga Joel Selwood. Want.

 

[StCicatriz]

having a good start to the year is so important when trying to attract elite AFL players

i mean look at the north. their good start last year ended up making them somewhat of a destination club.

we need to aim high here. yes there's a need for someone like Jones, but i think we also need to be aggressive targeting the absolute elite. what about Wines? i'd love him!

ignore contracts they mean nothing these days. just need to be 1 year out from when it expires.