List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[triggering bro]

Tell Geelong Steven is all yours if you can get us Hill. Seems a logical solution with Kelly likely to Freo.

 

[OxSaint]

Jus

Yes. Club before player.

Just let him go. He won’t get a great contract from Geelong as a 31yearold anyway so 2nd round compo is what we will get next year. He has given us good service at a poor time for the club. Stuv is t the type to play to mid 30’s.

 

[Yawkey way]

You can do what you like through a manager. A player can’t sign anything

So you can induce someone to break a contract and the AFL are fine with that? Tampering has penalties in other sports.

 

[busso_mick]

The lack of empathy for someone suffering with a mental illness just because they want to see someone play football in their colours or someone else from a trade is pretty disappointing.

Having never suffered a mental health crisis, only the odd down period, but seeing all around me my whole life ( mother had mental health challenges her whole life, daughter who suffers acute anxiety), the blaise attitude towards Steven and his health is a bit bewildering.

We don't know the circumstances of this man, if he needs to be with his family so be it.
Nobody or nothing would stop me being with my family, not contracts, not employment, and certainly not football if it was keeping me away.

Seems as though some hold others to a different standard to what they would require in their personal life.

I don't think this is an abstract dry argument about contracts and trades.

Extremely well put Joffa. Jack is a human being first, a St Kilda footballer second. He has given great service to the club, won 4 B&F awards and will go down as one of our best ever players. He has accumulated a lot of credits at the club and owes us absolutely nothing. If he wants to pursue a change of scenery due to personal reasons then I will give him the green light. He is contracted so we do have some say in the matter, I am sure that Geelong will not try to lowball us just for the sake of it.

 

[Mikka84]

Yep, because after finishing third last it would have gone down very very well to let our best player walk out the club and into Geelong for a draft pick.

And yet now we'll most likely be getting a second round pick.. If they want to walk, let them. Does more damage keeping a disgruntled employee than it does letting them go for the right compensation.

We could have had Clark or Dursmaa as an example.

 

[plugger66]

I wouldn’t be approaching contracted players mid contract it’s that simple.

If Geelong are as you say doing more than sniffing around then how is that responsible or reasonable behaviour.

Firstly you can approach players. Secondly why are Geelong doing it and we aren’t. I would suggest neither have approached the player this year but have approached the managers. More than sniffing around just meant they want him not they have spoken to him. Every single club would have approached many managers of many contracted players.

 

[borderbarry]

If the Kelly deal gets done first Geelong are going to have alot of picks to trade with. I would be asking for Geelongs 1st and 2nd, with out second pick 55 I think, going back to them.

 

[VDS66]

And yet now we'll most likely be getting a second round pick.. If they want to walk, let them. Does more damage keeping a disgruntled employee than it does letting them go for the right compensation.

We could have had Clark or Dursmaa as an example.

Have to say that in hindsight our decision to hold him will bite us on the bum.

 

[plugger66]

So you can induce someone to break a contract and the AFL are fine with that? Tampering has penalties in other sports.

I don’t get what you are saying. All clubs are doing the same including us. You can be upset jack may leave but you can’t be upset that Geelong as doing exactly what we are doing

 

[The_Steadier]

Extremely well put Joffa. Jack is a human being first, a St Kilda footballer second. He has given great service to the club, won 4 B&F awards and will go down as one of our best ever players. He has accumulated a lot of credits at the club and owes us absolutely nothing. If he wants to pursue a change of scenery due to personal reasons then I will give him the green light. He is contracted so we do have some say in the matter, I am sure that Geelong will not try to lowball us just for the sake of it.

You're the boss on a company.... and your best and star, and contracted employee wants you to let them go work for your direct rival for nothing.... just because they have given you years of good service?

Can you be my boss please?

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

All I know is, I would much rather see Jack happy and healthy and playing for a different team then not playing at all.
If that means taking a deal that seems unfair to us but it makes his transition to another team smoother, I'm fine with that. The guy has done enough for the Saints and deserves some happiness.

But hey, season isn't over and deals not done yet is it so why not wait and see.

 

[BrutThough]

And yet now we'll most likely be getting a second round pick.. If they want to walk, let them. Does more damage keeping a disgruntled employee than it does letting them go for the right compensation.

We could have had Clark or Dursmaa as an example.

If only we had a crystal ball to predict Jack wouldn't be able to play this season due to his mental health issues and see that Duursma would be available at that pick. Jack's season hasn't been because he is a disgruntled employee and if he was fit enough to play, he would be giving his heart and soul every single game which is all you want from any player.

With what we knew at the time, Jack Steven was our best player and we couldn't afford to have him walk out of the club. Fans were already disgruntled enough with the way that season panned out and were already questioning whether we had any good players on the list at all.

Do you really think letting our only proven commodity walk for a mystery draft pick was the best thing to do in that exact moment?

 

[cooperrules]

Yep pick 49 and a swap of fourths seems fair.

Cap relief

 

[Mikka84]

Have to say that in hindsight our decision to hold him will bite us on the bum.

Hindsight is a wonderful things i know.. we could have easily taken McHenry or Sturt who have't played a game yet.

But it does help support the argument, if the deal isn't bad, and the player really wants out ( and in this case was for health and family reasons ) then let them go and get the best we can back.

 

[plugger66]

You're the boss on a company.... and your best and star, and contracted employee wants you to let them go work for your direct rival for nothing.... just because they have given you years of good service?

Can you be my boss please?

Who is saying nothing apart from you

 

[Mikka84]

If only we had a crystal ball to predict Jack wouldn't be able to play this season due to his mental health issues and see that Duursma would be available at that pick. Jack's season hasn't been because he is a disgruntled employee and if he was fit enough to play, he would be giving his heart and soul every single game which is all you want from any player.

With what we knew at the time, Jack Steven was our best player and we couldn't afford to have him walk out of the club. Fans were already disgruntled enough with the way that season panned out and were already questioning whether we had any good players on the list at all.

Do you really think letting our only proven commodity walk for a mystery draft pick was the best thing to do in that exact moment?

I'm not having a go at you.. But as I've been pretty strong on this, if the player wants to go for legitimate reasons, then so be it.

Hindsight is always fun. But in Jack's case we didn't need it.. He expressed he wanted to go home for family reasons and he was struggling. We said no. Not sure if we thought that would be a positive on his life.

 

[EconomicDecline]

Cap relief

We need cap relief? That’s laughable

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Yep I've changed my tune on Stevens. Had enough of his maybe I'll leave, maybe I won't, maybe I'll play, maybe I won't. I bet he doesn't forget to pick up his huge wage. Sandy for the rest of the year and then trade him for whatever we can get.

Can you pop up the quote from the interview where Stuv has stated that?

Thanks in advance.

PS. What a disgraceful, childish and stupid post.

 

[Yawkey way]

The lack of empathy for someone suffering with a mental illness just because they want to see someone play football in their colours or someone else from a trade is pretty disappointing.

Having never suffered a mental health crisis, only the odd down period, but seeing all around me my whole life ( mother had mental health challenges her whole life, daughter who suffers acute anxiety), the blaise attitude towards Steven and his health is a bit bewildering.

We don't know the circumstances of this man, if he needs to be with his family so be it.
Nobody or nothing would stop me being with my family, not contracts, not employment, and certainly not football if it was keeping me away.

Seems as though some hold others to a different standard to what they would require in their personal life.

I don't think this is an abstract dry argument about contracts and trades.

Quite the contrary, I have nothing but sympathy and best wishes for jack.

My problem isn’t with him or St Kilda who I’m sure will do the right thing being in possession of all the facts. Just very uncomfortable with apparently rampant tampering and the role it may have played in jacks decision making.

I wanted beams and McCarthy to be treated fairly and accommodated within reason.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

There's plenty of media fiction on the left. It's not solely a right wing issue.

Based on your earlier post its not surprising that you identify with the ring wingers.

 

[Yawkey way]

I'm not having a go at you.. But as I've been pretty strong on, if the player wants to go for legitimate reasons, then so be it.

Hindsight is always fun. But in Jack's case we didn't need it.. He expressed he wanted to go home for family reasons and he was struggling. We said no. Not sure if we thought that would be a positive on his life.

See that’s what I want to hear, so we knew jack was struggling and turned him and a good deal down.

 

[busso_mick]

You're the boss on a company.... and your best and star, and contracted employee wants you to let them go work for your direct rival for nothing.... just because they have given you years of good service?

Can you be my boss please?

I think you are confusing reality with Supercoach. Don't you have any empathy for Jack?

 

[The_Steadier]

Who is saying nothing apart from you

Crap compensation is as good as no compensation when broader impacts are considered.

We need to be mindful of not openly inviting more, potentially more borderline instances in future.

Remember when was it mitch clark who was homesick for WA and fixed that by going to geelong?

I recall potentially tippett or someone else doing similar? Homesick for somewhere they didnt go?

If the geelong offer were substandard, we'd be better served in the long run (retaining our own players and have more clout in negotiating for new players) buy saying thanks, but no thanks.

 

[Cattergirl]

Quite the contrary, I have nothing but sympathy and best wishes for jack.

My problem isn’t with him or St Kilda who I’m sure will do the right thing being in possession of all the facts. Just very uncomfortable with apparently rampant tampering and the role it may have played in jacks decision making.

I wanted beams and McCarthy to be treated fairly and accommodated within reason.

Mate. There is no tampering going on. All teams are approaching the management of contracted players. My team, your team, every team. St Kilda have a right to refuse to let him go if they wish, but please don’t pretend that your club aren’t doing exactly the same thing.

 

[The_Steadier]

I think you are confusing reality with Supercoach. Don't you have any empathy for Jack?

I've got loads of it- but I'm suprised you seem to think that employers should go to seemingly unlimited lengths to fix employees personal problems.