List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[ScrappyDo]

The media are really starting to realise how good of a ruckman Rowan Marshall is. Still the highest rating player since round 11.

Pretty amazing for a bloke that couldn't hold down a spot last year.

Most are wondering why we'd be chasing Todd Goldstein. I'd be surprised if our thoughts haven't changed over the last couple of months.

We need a young back up ruckman that can develop in the VFL and come in when Marshall is injured. Not a 31 year old ruckman that's going to take ruck time out of one the best players in the comp.

Marshall is ahead of Goldstein in every stat except for hit outs and that gap is closing.

Wouldn't you think then Marshall will be ahead of Goldie next year and so there's nothing to worry about??? We get a stellar 2nd ruckman who's not going to push Roma out unless he has a form slump, which l thought is what we'd want, no??
And he costs nothing at the trade table...

Aaand we get Draper to develop in a couple of years.

Come to think of it, this is a bloody dream scenario we're talking about here. What the hell are people worried about?? I don't get it.

 

[bird_man]

Wouldn't you think then Marshall will be ahead of Goldie next year and so there's nothing to worry about??? We get a stellar 2nd ruckman who's not going to push Roma out unless he has a form slump, which l thought is what we'd want, no??
And he costs nothing at the trade table...

Aaand we get Draper to develop in a couple of years.

Come to think of it, this is a bloody dream scenario we're talking about here. What the hell are people worried about?? I don't get it.

First of all, as has been mentioned on numerous occasions, I highly doubt Goldstein is going to come to us to play VFL.

Secondly, not sure how I'd feel about paying a bloke big money to play VFL footy.

Draper makes sense if we can get him cheap.

 

[lewdogs]

We are still two ruckman short on our list. So in the end it doesn't really matter who it is because they'll be behind Marshall, but we need two and we are better off if at least one of them is a good player.

 

[Cornish]

If Romar goes down we are in deep poo, we need a competent backup ruckman.

 

[ScrappyDo]

First of all, as has been mentioned on numerous occasions, I highly doubt Goldstein is going to come to us to play VFL.

Secondly, not sure how I'd feel about paying a bloke big money to play VFL footy.

Draper makes sense if we can get him cheap.

But it really doesn't matter what Goldie wants. On current form, if he comes to us he'll be behind Roma and that's that. At his age and mooted 900k (?) price, there's not really that big a market for him to choose from.
I get that supporters don't want games taken off of Roma, but if he holds his form then that won't happen...
We'd be spending the AFL's money to recruit an AA ruckman to mentor our two prospects for a couple of years.

 

[bird_man]

But it really doesn't matter what Goldie wants. On current form, if he comes to us he'll be behind Roma and that's that. At his age and mooted 900k (?) price, there's not really that big a market for him to choose from.
I get that supporters don't want games taken off of Roma, but if he holds his form then that won't happen...
We'd be spending the AFL's money to recruit an AA ruckman to mentor our two prospects for a couple of years.

We are already paying a bloke close to 900k a year that can't get on the park and you are suggesting we pay a 31 year old 900k to play VFL?

That is one expensive mentor.

I'd prefer we over pay someone that's going to play in the seniors.

Also, I think it does matter what Goody wants. He would be talking to the club prior to signing to see what the plans are going forward. I doubt he would come if we told him the plan was for him to play VFL unless Marshall is injured, so we'd have to lie to get him here because at his age and quality I doubt he goes for that.

 

[The_Steadier]

My view hasn't changed at all on Acres and Ross. On the trade table for mine

We haven't played finals in 8 years with no end in sight for that streak and have just sacked the coach.

I don't think ANYONE should be strictly off the table aside from gresham and billings.

Im not advocating a firesale but we should be open minded about what other teams would offer up in for everyone else on our list. (in terms of star players only- not draft picks. 8 years of rebuilding means we are now looking for star players, not picks.)

If we got a godfather offer of say taranto or heeney for marshall for instance, I'd do it. (and take goldy as a rfa to replace marshall for a few years).

This doesn't mean I'd be putting marshall ON the trade table... I just wouldn't be putting him on a list of untouchables.

So naturally if my opinion is someone like marshall isn't untouchable- then of course a guy like ross certainly isn't either.

However I wouldn't be trying to trade the likes of him or acres etc.
Not because they are untouchable, but simply because there is practically no chance we could get .
Basically they are worth more to us than anyother team would pay.
They are good foot soldiers (acres with potential to be more) - you need these kinds of guys AND stars in the midfield rotation to be successful.

So acres and ross are not off limits, but shouldnt be shopped around.

Our strategy needs to be finding a way of making guys like ross, acres, steele our depth mids... not our top liners.

Obviously a fit hanners and stuv would assist this a truckload... but still we need more above the likes of ross, acres etc even if (big IF) hanners and stuv play fit in 2020.

Maybe hunter clark flicks the switch and becomes a total mid star next year and takes the heat off guys like ross and acres... I hope so, but we can't expect it to happen.

 

[The_Steadier]

But it really doesn't matter what Goldie wants. On current form, if he comes to us he'll be behind Roma and that's that. At his age and mooted 900k (?) price, there's not really that big a market for him to choose from.
I get that supporters don't want games taken off of Roma, but if he holds his form then that won't happen...
We'd be spending the AFL's money to recruit an AA ruckman to mentor our two prospects for a couple of years.

What if roma wasnt here?

 

[bird_man]

We haven't played finals in 8 years with no end in sight for that streak and have just sacked the coach.

I don't think ANYONE should be strictly off the table aside from gresham and billings.

Im not advocating a firesale but we should be open minded about what other teams would offer up in for everyone else on our list. (in terms of star players only- not draft picks. 8 years of rebuilding means we are now looking for star players, not picks.)

If we got a godfather offer of say taranto or heeney for marshall for instance, I'd do it. (and take goldy as a rfa to replace marshall for a few years).

This doesn't mean I'd be putting marshall ON the trade table... I just wouldn't be putting him on a list of untouchables.

So naturally if my opinion is someone like marshall isn't untouchable- then of course a guy like ross certainly isn't either.

However I wouldn't be trying to trade the likes of him or acres etc.
Not because they are untouchable, but simply because there is practically no chance we could get .
Basically they are worth more to us than anyother team would pay.
They are good foot soldiers (acres with potential to be more) - you need these kinds of guys AND stars in the midfield rotation to be successful.

So acres and ross are not off limits, but shouldnt be shopped around.

Our strategy needs to be finding a way of making guys like ross, acres, steele our depth mids... not our top liners.

Obviously a fit hanners and stuv would assist this a truckload... but still we need more above the likes of ross, acres etc even if (big IF) hanners and stuv play fit in 2020.

Maybe hunter clark flicks the switch and becomes a total mid star next year and takes the heat off guys like ross and acres... I hope so, but we can't expect it to happen.

Trading out our best player that is 23 and hasn't reached near the peak yet would be madness IMO.

If we did manage to talk Heeney or Taranto into coming then we'd just have to find another way.

Marshall is a better footballer than Heeney and more important to us. I'd love Taranto but not at the cost of Marshall.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Trading out our best player that is 23 and hasn't reached near the peak yet would be madness IMO.

Especially for someone like Heeney

 

[Drake Huggins]

First of all, as has been mentioned on numerous occasions, I highly doubt Goldstein is going to come to us to play VFL.

Secondly, not sure how I'd feel about paying a bloke big money to play VFL footy.

Draper makes sense if we can get him cheap.

Cue the little girl in the taco shells commercial.
"Why not have both? "
What a great problem to have. Two top ruckmen and a promising one developing and providing even more back up.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Played two pretty good finals games did Raph.

09 Prelim: 21 disposals and 9 marks
08 Prelim: 25 disposals and 9 marks

Also played 7 bloody horrible finals too!!

11 Elimination: 3 kicks, 3 clangers, 2 frees against
09 grand final: 3 kicks, 3 clangers, 3 frees against
09 Elimination: 12 disposals, 2 tackles
08 Qualifying: 13 disposals
06 Elimination: 3 disposals (1 kick), 2 frees against
05 Prelim: 11 disposals
05 qualifying: 15 disposals, 1 tackle

His first quarter in the 09 grand final still gives me nightmares! 100000 fans and 42 other players could see Max Rooke coming, just not Raph

Sam Fisher’s fault.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The_Steadier]

The media are really starting to realise how good of a ruckman Rowan Marshall is. Still the highest rating player since round 11.

Pretty amazing for a bloke that couldn't hold down a spot last year.

Most are wondering why we'd be chasing Todd Goldstein. I'd be surprised if our thoughts haven't changed over the last couple of months.

We need a young back up ruckman that can develop in the VFL and come in when Marshall is injured. Not a 31 year old ruckman that's going to take ruck time out of one the best players in the comp.

Marshall is ahead of Goldstein in every stat except for hit outs and that gap is closing.

Goldy has been putting up those numbers for near on a decade though- you get credit for sustaining elite level.
Roma looks awesome but so did shane wowedien for a year.
I'm not suggesting that roma is a 1 season wonder- but just a reminder that champions are guys that remain elite for years.

Goldstein has done that, Roma is yet to.

 

[Sully111]

We haven't played finals in 8 years with no end in sight for that streak and have just sacked the coach.

I don't think ANYONE should be strictly off the table aside from gresham and billings.

Im not advocating a firesale but we should be open minded about what other teams would offer up in for everyone else on our list. (in terms of star players only- not draft picks. 8 years of rebuilding means we are now looking for star players, not picks.)

If we got a godfather offer of say taranto or heeney for marshall for instance, I'd do it. (and take goldy as a rfa to replace marshall for a few years).

This doesn't mean I'd be putting marshall ON the trade table... I just wouldn't be putting him on a list of untouchables.

So naturally if my opinion is someone like marshall isn't untouchable- then of course a guy like ross certainly isn't either.

However I wouldn't be trying to trade the likes of him or acres etc.
Not because they are untouchable, but simply because there is practically no chance we could get .
Basically they are worth more to us than anyother team would pay.
They are good foot soldiers (acres with potential to be more) - you need these kinds of guys AND stars in the midfield rotation to be successful.

So acres and ross are not off limits, but shouldnt be shopped around.

Our strategy needs to be finding a way of making guys like ross, acres, steele our depth mids... not our top liners.

Obviously a fit hanners and stuv would assist this a truckload... but still we need more above the likes of ross, acres etc even if (big IF) hanners and stuv play fit in 2020.

Maybe hunter clark flicks the switch and becomes a total mid star next year and takes the heat off guys like ross and acres... I hope so, but we can't expect it to happen.

Disagree

Marshall???... really?

We improve our midfield and we're looking good, but not if we're throwing away players like Marshall and Carlisle. Those boxes are ticked as far as great players in their positions, it would be insane to turn that into another problem that needs to be fixed.

I mention Acres and Ross because a) i think they'd have SOME value and b) i've seen enough of them and think we can do better.

Midfield is the problem. Let's fix that, but not to the detriment of the rest of the side.

 

[The_Steadier]

Trading out our best player that is 23 and hasn't reached near the peak yet would be madness IMO.

If we did manage to talk Heeney or Taranto into coming then we'd just have to find another way.

Marshall is a better footballer than Heeney and more important to us. I'd love Taranto but not at the cost of Marshall.

Goldy as an rfa would soften the blow for 2020 and 2021, then grab max gawn has a UFA for 2022.

Well have 2 flags by then with our elite ruck division of goldy (draper backup) and starting midfield of taranto, stuv, hanners, gresh, billings, clark, steele.

We'd be pretty bloody good with guys like seb ross, dunstan and steele as out 7th-9th best mids instead of 1st-3rd.

You gotta break eggs to make an omelete.
Losing roma is far from ideal- but getting a free as good replacement of goldy plus a star like taranto puts us right in the frame for top 4 between 2020-2022.

Yes it's radical- but so was the dogs trading for boyd who won them a flag.
You have to be bold- name 1 team that won a flag being careful.

Fwiw i'd probably trade max king for taranto or heeney or equivalent young gun mid too if it were offered.

 

[The_Steadier]

Especially for someone like Heeney

Ok what about dunkley?
Or whifield?

Or some other gun young mid you DO rate.

Yes, marshall wouldnt get us a fyfe or kelly or cripps level superstar... but I think he could fetch a taranto etc level player in a straight swap.

Don't get too hung up on the name- I'm merely making the point that marshall shouldn't necessarily be off limits under all circumstances.

 

[ScrappyDo]

We are already paying a bloke close to 900k a year that can't get on the park and you are suggesting we pay a 31 year old 900k to play VFL?

That is one expensive mentor.

I'd prefer we over pay someone that's going to play in the seniors.

Also, I think it does matter what Goody wants. He would be talking to the club prior to signing to see what the plans are going forward. I doubt he would come if we told him the plan was for him to play VFL unless Marshall is injured, so we'd have to lie to get him here because at his age and quality I doubt he goes for that.

I think your tying yourself in knots on this one birdie. In short, if we're prepared to cough up the rather exorbitant price, then it comes with a set of conditions. Take it or leave it. The cap space is there to be used, so use it..
Personally l reckon Goldie will have to drop his price regardless.

 

[Ricmel]

I don't think ANYONE should be strictly off the table aside from gresham and billings.

This doesn't mean I'd be putting marshall ON the trade table... I just wouldn't be putting him on a list of untouchables.

I disagree. I think our untouchables are Marshall, Carlisle, Membrey, King, Bruce. Membrey and Bruce might surprise but I think they are ideal types to fill spots around King. I think Clark is close to untouchable - I have seen enough to feel he is going to be exceptional.

Billings and Gresham are interesting to me. My biggest question on both is how much upside is there? If you judge them as having potential to develop into consistent game breakers maybe they are untouchable. But at the moment, if a deal could be done for a Cogs, Gaff, Kelly type that needed one of Gresham or Billings - I would do it.

 

[bird_man]

I think your tying yourself in knots on this one birdie. In short, if we're prepared to cough up the rather exorbitant price, then it comes with a set of conditions. Take it or leave it. The cap space is there to be used, so use it..
Personally l reckon Goldie will have to drop his price regardless.

Well if Goldy comes at a decent price and knows he's more than likely going to play VFL then I'm all for it.

I'm a realist though, I think that's unlikely.

Agree the cap space is there to be used but I still don't think we can afford to pay really good money for a guy we know will play VFL.

I'd prefer we put that towards players that will play seniors.

 

[Premium]

This could well be our trade target

Roos argues if you had to line every player in the AFL up against a wall and pick them one by one, Whitfield would be the first player picked due to how much damage he inflicts with his ball use and decision making.

“I’ve spoken to a few people inside footy clubs, if there was an open market and someone said we are going to start the competition again have your first pick, I wouldn’t be surprised if that fella there is taken above any other player in the competition,” Roos said on Fox Footy on Monday night.

“(I think he is) No. 1 in the comp for the very reasons of how the game is played today and you see it on a weekly basis. The game changes when Lachie Whitfield gets the ball.

“He is certainly top-five, but there are some clubs that would take him at No. 1 and I guarantee it.”

 

[Impatient Saint]

I think the first rule of football clubs and list management should be team synergy and bonding!

We only have to look back at the reaction of the team when Ratten announced Langlands was playing and the reaction of his team mates when he kicked a goal on Sunday. He mighten be the most talented player on our list but he is obviously very popular. With those type of lads on our list you are going to have a nucleous of a happy team, who his team mates love playing with and they play for each other.

AFL is a ruthless sport but lets not forget the human element as to why sucessful young men love playing footy - its because of their mates. I believe Ratten will engender a much happier team environment and understands what bonds these young men. I dont think the importance of that human aspect of football and life can be highlighted strongly enough.

There is no doubt that some football clubs become sour under their leadership and because players talk I believe its a major consideration in player movement. Hopefully in the next 6 weeks our club can display to the competition that our players are loving playing footy again, because it will turn our future trading around in a instant.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Marshal could literally win the brownlow next year, such is his potential. He could be the number 1 player. He's completely off the table IMO

 

[Drake Huggins]

Disagree

Marshall???... really?

We improve our midfield and we're looking good, but not if we're throwing away players like Marshall and Carlisle. Those boxes are ticked as far as great players in their positions, it would be insane to turn that into another problem that needs to be fixed.

I mention Acres and Ross because a) i think they'd have SOME value and b) i've seen enough of them and think we can do better.

Midfield is the problem. Let's fix that, but not to the detriment of the rest of the side.

Plus one, Sully. We've had a weakness in the ruck ever since Ben McEvoy left. We have discovered an exceptional player in Marshall, who has turned that weakness into a strength. The fact is, at this stage we have no ready made back up of a decent standard.

As Balmey says, "Bloody ruckmen. You've always got too many, or not enough! "

Even the thought of trading Carlisle seems foolish as well. Again, we have an A grader. Hang onto him.Unless someone makes a godfather type offer, which is unlikely.

Jake is a genuine swing man, who has yet to regain full fitness and form. If he was a share, I'd say hold.

 

[Joffaboy]

The media are really starting to realise how good of a ruckman Rowan Marshall is. Still the highest rating player since round 11.

Pretty amazing for a bloke that couldn't hold down a spot last year.

Most are wondering why we'd be chasing Todd Goldstein. I'd be surprised if our thoughts haven't changed over the last couple of months.

We need a young back up ruckman that can develop in the VFL and come in when Marshall is injured. Not a 31 year old ruckman that's going to take ruck time out of one the best players in the comp.

Marshall is ahead of Goldstein in every stat except for hit outs and that gap is closing.

If we go down the Draper path we also need a slogger in case there is an early Marshall injury.
Might be best to also keep Longer if we get Draper who wont play seniors until 2021

 

[The_Steadier]

I disagree. I think our untouchables are Marshall, Carlisle, Membrey, King, Bruce. Membrey and Bruce might surprise but I think they are ideal types to fill spots around King. I think Clark is close to untouchable - I have seen enough to feel he is going to be exceptional.

Billings and Gresham are interesting to me. My biggest question on both is how much upside is there? If you judge them as having potential to develop into consistent game breakers maybe they are untouchable. But at the moment, if a deal could be done for a Cogs, Gaff, Kelly type that needed one of Gresham or Billings - I would do it.

Wer're so thin for elite talent in the mids though that I see a hypothetical gaff for gresham swap as only an incremental, minor upgrade. Where we need a major overhaul.

That's why I feel gresh and billings are untouchable and all others aren't.

Swapping say gresh out of our current team and putting gaff in would be like fixing your letterbox after a tornado ripped through your house.

Sure, you unquestionably improved things by fixing the letterbox, but there are far more major repairs you need to be doing to fix up the mess.

I think we have good options available to us for offsetting the hypothetical loss of guys like carlisle, king, marshall- either by getting in RFAs like goldy to offset roma or internal candidates such as white, battle, marsh etc to offset the loss of carlisle.

As for king, well you can't miss what you never had.
Let me pose this hypothetical-
If for some reason tim taranto was available at pick 4 (as a 20 year old) last year- who would you have taken- max king or taranto?
For me it's a no brainer- we took king because he was best available... but let's not kid ourselves- if a gun mid was best available at pick 4 last year, we wouldn't have taken king.

If losing a carlisle, king or marshall got us a taranto, with one of those offsets in place- we'd be getting close to top 4 contention in 2020-2021 in my view.

Ballsy? Yes.

Dumb? I don't believe so