Official Club Stuff 2019 Trevor Barker Award - Seb Ross wins his 2nd B&F!

Who Wins?

  • Rowan Marshall

    Votes: 66 66.7%
  • Jack Billings

    Votes: 16 16.2%
  • Tim Membrey

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • Josh Bruce

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jade Gresham

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Hunter Clark

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jack Steele

    Votes: 4 4.0%
  • Seb Ross

    Votes: 8 8.1%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 2.0%

  • Total voters
    99

Dard Ball Get

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Surprised that he actually won it as I thought it would have been Marshall followed by Steele then a raffle between Billings/Gresh/Ross for 3rd place.

The only thing that really annoys me about Ross is some of his efforts this year to chase a player and literally walk after then not giving a yelp. There were 4 or 5 examples that I was left shaking my head saying no captain of a football club would do that.
Agreed. And make no mistake, it’s not Seb’s fault he won, but he put in some pathetic efforts in big moments. Marshall didn’t, and I’d argue he had far more impact across the season.
Anyway, doesn’t really matter, does it :tearsofjoy:
 

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ScrappyDo

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I'm not gonna bitch about the results, but it's the margin from 1st to 2nd that surprises me the most.
As with some of the comments about BOGs from sandy, it smells of politics to me.

Congrats to all our lads for sticking phat through the two most diabolical years since l started to take interest back in the late 90s.
These BnF results at least give me hope for the future.
May the year of the Ratt come swiftly and without mercy.
Hail Satan..
 

austinnn

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Different angle.
Marshall was the crowd favourite...clearly and probably should have won it...Seb was pretty good.

I wish to thank BF as one of the sponsors I got to go to the BF.

My thoughts;

Bassett said nothing new
Ratten said nothing new
Geary said nothing new.

The main take away is that we all need to work harder and better as a team and tweek the games style....blah blah blah. Come back fit for pre season...etc...BTW every other club will be saying that same thing.

Interesting stat from Rats that we had from memory 2 more shots on goal than WCE....so the ball is getting there it is the conversion and also where we take our shots.

Basset seems to have a steely resolve. Trade period is the only time that we really see the intentions of a club played out in the public. Trading favourite sons etc.

Hope to see some action at the trade table as that tells me that Basset Ratten and Geary are not just saying stuff but are actually actioning it as well.

Also every body mentioned Richo and every time the room cheered. Like that.

Oh also deepest condolences to Danny Frawley' s family. It is a sad week for all in the Saint family.
Absolutely right. Talk is cheap, but the real measure of our intentions will first be seen in Trade Week.

That stat he put up, and the fact that he was forwards coach this season makes me think that maybe he'd be keen to get all the inconsistent kicks for goal out of the best 22, but I doubt he can axe all our forward line at once. Still, I would be a little worried if I were Jack Sinclair, Dean Kent, Ben Long, Blake Acres, Jack Lonie, Jack Billings, Luke Dunstan, Jack Newnes or any of our misfiring goal kickers. They might find themselves being pushed up the wing/into midfield/into defence/onto the trade table.

I would still trade Josh Bruce while he has value and would still trade Seb, B&F or not, though I will have to accept the club would see this as very poor timing. BUT, if they had the balls to do that, I would impressed not angry or scared that the club was being run by maniacs. Am I a maniac?

Wibble.
 
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Brains Trust66

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1. Seb Ross (170 votes)
2. Rowan Marshall (152 votes)
3. Jack Steele (151 votes)
4. Jack Billings (140 votes)
5. Tim Membrey (136 votes)
6. Jade Gresham (131 votes)
7. Callum Wilkie (115 votes)
8. Luke Dunstan (111 votes)
9. Josh Bruce (108 votes)
10. Shane Savage (101 votes)

23 and under = 4 (2 of the top 3)
23-26 =4
27 and over = 2 (9th and 10th)

That isn’t a bad demographic and especially where our list is at age profile wise. Our best players are young and developing still.

Top 8 all 25 or under.
Was really surprised Battle didnt make the top ten .
 

Brains Trust66

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interesting this from the AFL site .

Seb Ross rated above average in the following this year -

Disposals , Stoppage Clearance, Uncontested Possessions , Inside 50's , and DISPOSAL EFFICIENCY .

Only average at Marks .

So all those who say he kicks poorly should have a look at that . His DISPOSAL EFFICIENCY for the year was 72.9 which is above average .

Maybe he is a good player after all , and maybe he deserved to win his second award , just pointing it out.
 

Brains Trust66

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Just to put his disposal efficiency of 72.9 in some context , Stephen CONIGLIO who is going to be earning a lot more cash than Seb went at 64.4 this season and some posters really wanted us to get him to our club. Im not saying that Seb is better at everything than him but it does show he is better than some people on here credit him in my view.
 

jwikked

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interesting this from the AFL site .

Seb Ross rated above average in the following this year -

Disposals , Stoppage Clearance, Uncontested Possessions , Inside 50's , and DISPOSAL EFFICIENCY .

Only average at Marks .

So all those who say he kicks poorly should have a look at that . His DISPOSAL EFFICIENCY for the year was 72.9 which is above average .

Maybe he is a good player after all , and maybe he deserved to win his second award , just pointing it out.
I judge players on what I see during a game, what they produce and if they’re making a positive difference.
Seb winning was a shock because simply he wasn’t our “best” for the year.
It’s strange to have all these people try and justify his win and how everyone who disagrees is wrong.
Relying on stats doesn’t paint the entire picture. Seb was ineffective as captain, but I do believe that C next to his name is the reason he polled so highly. The Seb Ross I saw this year wasn’t a game winner. He didn’t turn the tides. I think he had one game where I might have given him 2 or 3 votes.
I questioned his captaincy, although there isn’t much to choose from. If he retired today I don’t think it would make a difference to the team.
I’m surprised he made top 5, let alone winning by the margin he did.
How is disposal efficiency counted? Simply by hitting a target, or is it hitting a target to advantage?
Trying to paint those of us who didn’t rate him this year as “wrong” is a stretch when Billings clearly had a better year - he just didn’t have the C next to his name.
 

Mikka84

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Absolutely right. Talk is cheap, but the real measure of our intentions will first be seen in Trade Week.

That stat he put up, and the fact that he was forwards coach this season makes me think that maybe he'd be keen to get all the inconsistent kicks for goal out of the best 22, but I doubt he can axe all our forward line at once. Still, I would be a little worried if I were Jack Sinclair, Dean Kent, Ben Long, Blake Acres, Jack Lonie, Jack Billings or any of our misfiring goal kickers. They might find themselves being pushed up the wing/into midfield/into defence/onto the trade table.

I would still trade Josh Bruce while he has value and would still trade Seb, B&F or not, though I will have to accept the club would see this as very poor timing. BUT, if they had the balls to do that, I would impressed not angry or scared that the club was being run by maniacs. Am I a maniac?

Wibble.
Has a club ever trade out 2 x top 10 B&F players in one year? Maybe even 3? Going to be a very interesting off season. I’m excited to be honest. The list needs a shake up from a bunch of B graders to some quality in there.
 

L_W_P

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Congrats to Seb. Think this will cement him as skipper from next season.

I didn't have him in my top 5 (RoMa, Billings, Steele, Wilkie & Savage) but there are obviously things that the coaches take into account that we dont see/understand fully.

Get the feeling we are going to be pretty ruthless during the off season too. Ratts and the club aren't straying from the plan to make finals so now that the list has been tempered, it's time to sharpen the edge. Wont be shocked if we move on more that Bruce and Steven should the opportunity come up.
 

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Indie Rock

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On the Ross v Marshall thing (few are being harsh to Ross IMO).

Average votes per game:

Ross: 7.7 (22 games)
Marshall: 7.6 (20 games)

So they polled almost the same votes. Marshall missed out by 2 above average games really. There was also the Freo game where he was injured early and from memory missed almost half the game.

No doubt Roma had an awesome year and defied expectations, he showed more than a lot of promise (elite potential) in an position we thought we were completely rooted in and was a new fan favourite by about round 5.

As per the Brownlow there is no doubt that possessions and accumulation of those stats get noticed and so benefited Ross (average 26 and only less than 20 touches in one game). Gives him more opportunities to impact the game.

I know the Trevor Barker Award is the big one but for me the Lenny Hayes award is the most valuable. Recognition by your peers trumps everything else.
 
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Yawkey way

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I judge players on what I see during a game, what they produce and if they’re making a positive difference.
Seb winning was a shock because simply he wasn’t our “best” for the year.
It’s strange to have all these people try and justify his win and how everyone who disagrees is wrong.
Relying on stats doesn’t paint the entire picture. Seb was ineffective as captain, but I do believe that C next to his name is the reason he polled so highly. The Seb Ross I saw this year wasn’t a game winner. He didn’t turn the tides. I think he had one game where I might have given him 2 or 3 votes.
I questioned his captaincy, although there isn’t much to choose from. If he retired today I don’t think it would make a difference to the team.
I’m surprised he made top 5, let alone winning by the margin he did.
How is disposal efficiency counted? Simply by hitting a target, or is it hitting a target to advantage?
Trying to paint those of us who didn’t rate him this year as “wrong” is a stretch when Billings clearly had a better year - he just didn’t have the C next to his name.
In your opinion he wasn’t our best, the coaches who know what the game plan is and the role each player has did in fact vote to make seb ross our b&f.

If that doesn’t fit with your opinion of him that’s ok but I’d strongly suggest that they are the best placed to judge each players contribution. I didn’t have him winning it but I would have been surprised if he was out of the top 4 he’s a previous winner and had a very good year imo.
 

Cornish

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I thought Roma might get it, i also had Steele and Ross up there, but that was only my opinion from viewed games.

We dont see everything, we dont see the players plying to team rules etc, we can be very selective in what we want to see and sometimes let our bias get in the way.

Congrats Seb well done son, and a special shout out to Roma, he could be something very special.
 

gringo2011

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Only 3% on this board voted Ross
Says it all

What does it say? Most posters have become obsessed with bagging him. He can butcher 3 kicks in a game but have an outstanding game and people only see the bad points. As I said a couple of weeks ago, if he was at another club like Collingwood or GWS we'd be wondering how many first round picks wed have to give up for him and lusting after him.

Posters aren't good list managers. Most would trade the good players out for draft picks that we'd probably waste anyway. Good list management is not selling off talent, it's about pooling it. Selling off Bruce is like the Dees selling Jeremy Howe. the club will tell you how good the idea is but it's a result of them making bad decisions in the past and wanting picks back.
 

hayes

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Congrats to Seb. He’s a quality player and far better than what he’s given credit for on here.

I’d have him as captain next year. Don’t think he’s won his last BnF either, I think he’ll go to another level under Ratten with his ball use getting back to 2016/17 level.
 

gringo2011

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and yet Marshall won every other award :think:

I reckon it the way they are framed. Once you have several people bagging a player it's easy to just see the bad. Roma is hyped and so when he makes a mistake it's quickly looked past. Seb was a slow starter so people had built up a negative view of him. He's our highest possession getter and really only Billings came close.
 

gringo2011

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I thought Roma might get it, i also had Steele and Ross up there, but that was only my opinion from viewed games.

We dont see everything, we dont see the players plying to team rules etc, we can be very selective in what we want to see and sometimes let our bias get in the way.

Congrats Seb well done son, and a special shout out to Roma, he could be something very special.

Roma will win one if we develop him right, looks on track to be our best player and very soon.
 

Yawkey way

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I reckon it the way they are framed. Once you have several people bagging a player it's easy to just see the bad. Roma is hyped and so when he makes a mistake it's quickly looked past. Seb was a slow starter so people had built up a negative view of him. He's our highest possession getter and really only Billings came close.
I don’t know the final count but there were a few favourite targets for abuse in the top ten at the halfway mark.

We all do it but it did make me laugh, some weeks in the autopsy thread I wonder if I’ve watched the same game. Then I read the best players on the AFL site and know I’ve clearly had one beer too many or they have.
 

BrutThough

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I am staggered by a few comments suggesting Seb wasn't in our best 5 players this season, or that some people are calling him weak, suggesting there is some shifty politics behind the vote. Some people need to seriously pull their head in.

He is a very deserving winner of this award which is designed to recognise our best player over all 22 games this season - not just the one who had a great back half or who smashed everyone's expectations of how good they could be. It rewards consistency, the players who do their role every week and those who dont play bad games.

Some rankings for Seb among his peers this season:
First for the club in disposals, kicks, inside 50s, effective disposals, bounces, meters gained and score involvements.
Second at the club for tackles, handballs, uncontested possessions.
Third at the club for total clearances and stoppage clearances.
Forth at the club for centre clearences.
And Fifth at the club for goal assists, contested possessions and rebound 50s.

This tells me he was a major contributor in every aspect of our game this year.
 

Mikka84

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I am staggered by a few comments suggesting Seb wasn't in our best 5 players this season, or that some people are calling him weak, suggesting there is some shifty politics behind the vote. Some people need to seriously pull their head in.

He is a very deserving winner of this award which is designed to recognise our best player over all 22 games this season - not just the one who had a great back half or who smashed everyone's expectations of how good they could be. It rewards consistency, the players who do their role every week and those who dont play bad games.

Some rankings for Seb among his peers this season:
First for the club in disposals, kicks, inside 50s, effective disposals, bounces, meters gained and score involvements.
Second at the club for tackles, handballs, uncontested possessions.
Third at the club for total clearances and stoppage clearances.
Forth at the club for centre clearences.
And Fifth at the club for goal assists, contested possessions and rebound 50s.

This tells me he was a major contributor in every aspect of our game this year.
It’s probably more a frustration to where our list is at. Easier to take a quick swipe than create a storm. I don’t think Seb was our best this year, but it’s not his fault the votes went his way.

What it does highlight is our lack of top end talent on the list. Ratts addressed this end of the year and again last night. We know the issue, let’s hope we begin to fix it.
 

BrutThough

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It’s probably more a frustration to where our list is at. Easier to take a quick swipe than create a storm. I don’t think Seb was our best this year, but it’s not his fault the votes went his way.

What it does highlight is our lack of top end talent on the list. Ratts addressed this end of the year and again last night. We know the issue, let’s hope we begin to fix it.
The two extra games Seb played over Marshall and Steele were the difference in the end. I don't think he is a bad winner and I don't think him winning it was a surprise either - he was always going to finish in the top three.

People get overly, and unfairly, frustrated with Seb over very small things that don't even get mentioned for others. If he played for anyone else, he is the type of player people would spent pages suggesting we spend our first to trade him in. The constant calls drop him or trade him always baffle me - we need betters players around Seb to make us better rather than getting rid of our only consistently, high performing midfielder. It's just the perils of being the whipping boy I guess.

I think the bigger surprise is that Billings didnt finished top 3, and was a decent amount of votes behind the others. I had him as our best player all year, he got our most coaches votes and was in the best most weeks. To finish a good 20 votes behind 2nd and 3rd was a shock.
 

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