Draft Review 2019 - Winners and Losers

Remove this Banner Ad

Soapy V

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 17, 2015
21,616
62,808
AFL Club
Carlton
You said Carlton have the best U/23 in the league, which is false.

Believing they are talented is all well and good but you saying they're the best U/23 even though the majority of that list has done nothing is a different story.

You've got blinkers on.
In your opinion it's false. Not mine. No excuse for abusing people
 

Stan Judkins

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 14, 2018
1,108
1,935
AFL Club
Richmond
In what world would a club hold a predraft meeting for exec members that details exactly what they plan to do?

Especially with a pick as far out as 20 where so many variables can occur.
It's a preview on who we like, not a fortune telling meeting
As you say so many variables
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Stan Judkins

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 14, 2018
1,108
1,935
AFL Club
Richmond
Wouldn’t be surprised if someone jumps in front of Richmond every year if detailed meetings as these occur.
Seems to be working with Carlton
Tell a bunch of RANDOMS what we're going to do and bingo SOS does us a favour and drafts Stocker, Philip
Leaves our real picks alone, RFC way ahead of the curve
SOS and Our recruiters go on a fact finding trip to U.S.A regarding drafting, wala works out for both of our clubs
We win premierships, Carlton move SOS on
 

SaltPeter

"I’m a professional bullshitter"
Suspended
Jan 6, 2018
10,419
11,881
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood
We've been banking extra money for the last 3 years. We didn't land Conglio or Papley so had to spend it. Betts is cheap and Martin gets most of his contract up front. We now have lots of SC room in years to come. Club are extremely happy and so are most of its supporters
Do you realise that a club can only carry forward underspend of TTP for 2 year’s ..? And that the underspend can be no more than 5% of the TTP, which currently would be around $600K per year.
 

Stan Judkins

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 14, 2018
1,108
1,935
AFL Club
Richmond
At the very least, Carlton rated Philp higher and thought there was a chance Richmond did too. Might have been based on inside mail, might have been an educated guess, might have just been playing it safe - it only cost us a pick we weren't going to use anyway, so there was no loss in doing it.

Doubt we'll ever know who Richmond rated higher for sure, because they'll do the right thing, and the thing every club would do, and back in the player who now wears their jumper. They're hardly going to come out and say "We're pretty happy with Dow, but a little disappointed we missed out on Philp instead".
Might have been any one of guessing I can come up with as well
But I like Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a principle from philosophy. Suppose there exist two explanations for an occurrence. In this case the one that requires the smallest number of assumptions is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation.
The smallest assumption is Carlton rated Philip next highest on their secret draft order sheet as did Richmond with Dow as they were both seen as reach type picks as opposed to say Robertson who was rated by the media
Also Dow was visited by Richmond, Philip wan't
 

Soapy V

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 17, 2015
21,616
62,808
AFL Club
Carlton
Do you realise that a club can only carry forward underspend of TTP for 2 year’s ..? And that the underspend can be no more than 5% of the TTP, which currently would be around $600K per year.
Yes. Had $1.2m available to pay Martin up front. We have also tied a lot of younger players up and paid them up front. Club in a good spot
 

Peel67skin

Norm Smith Medallist
May 21, 2017
8,036
3,756
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Liverpool
Yes. Had $1.2m available to pay Martin up front. We have also tied a lot of younger players up and paid them up front. Club in a good spot
I think after a while, you over did it. I rather read something different.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Marcel Proust

"Oohh WADA ooga booga" {Jul 11 2013}
Sep 6, 2018
12,406
21,023
#BigBigSound
AFL Club
Richmond
Seems to be working with Carlton
Tell a bunch of RANDOMS what we're going to do and bingo SOS does us a favour and drafts Stocker, Philip
Leaves our real picks alone, RFC way ahead of the curve
SOS and Our recruiters go on a fact finding trip to U.S.A regarding drafting, wala works out for both of our clubs
We win premierships, Carlton move SOS on
and the bloke with the acl injury

At least 5/18 would have taken Jackson at 3.

Give it up Marcel, you are talking sh*t again. You have no idea.
and you dont think that qualifies as a reach?
 

Stan Judkins

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 14, 2018
1,108
1,935
AFL Club
Richmond
It has been mentioned in the media and no I'm not looking it up for you do it yourself.

You drafted a player to play the exact same role with the same skill set in Dow, you can pretend you didn't want Philp if it helps you sleep.
Well if it makes the Carlton supporters feel better about their club in believing media stories and fairy tales knock yourself out
Don't think I read anywhere that Carlton said they traded up so as specifically "Richmond" wouldn't draft Philip, maybe in truth was they rated Philip high and didn't want the next few clubs to nab him
No not the same skill set, maybe read their respective bio's and no I'm not looking it up for you do it yourself.
Inferring that you outdid Richmond in drafting in just a nice bed time story that lets minority Blues supporters sleep at night
Have a nice sleep:lastqmoonface:😒
 

Stan Judkins

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 14, 2018
1,108
1,935
AFL Club
Richmond
As I have already said, a questionable decision given their list, but not a reach.

Most suggest he is a huge talent, so the insistence he is a reach is pretty silly.
I agree that to claim that a certain player is a reach is folly
Each club has its own list management criteria and sticks to that end
To follow media rankings and the like is ludicrous
 

Joey longshadow

Hostis Humani Generis
Oct 23, 2015
2,234
5,553
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Baltimore ravens
I find Richmond the most interesting draft of everyone, admittedly they can afford to take a risk this year. However on face value their first pick was rated by most in the 30’s and their second and third picks at 44 & 45 they took players that Brisbane didn’t value at pick 59 and they have watched them closely all year.
Brisbane couldn't afford to bid on them without going into deficit after Carlton or essendon bid on a player earlier causing them to burn there picks
 

Richo83

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 2, 2005
19,623
7,256
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
A lot of teams have won without a great ruckman, but it's not cherry picking to point out that some very good rucks have played a big part in teams winning. Brad Ottens was Mr September when it counted. McEvoy and Hale both very underrated. Tom Boyd could've won a Norm and the majority of his good play and marks came in the ruck. None of those guys cost nothing. And are you really going to say that Grundy hasn't been huge for Collingwood?
Interestingly, Ottens, McEvoy and Hale were all traded for and Geelong and Hawthorn sure didn't use pick three to get them. Grundy has been important but even with his stellar play, the midfield which really determine matches let him down.

Yes clearances are overrated. But the thing to note with Richmond is they win clean clearances out the front of stoppages or they force the opposition to bomb it. Jackson's highlights are full of him winning the ball at clearances and taking it forward or laying tackles or pressure to force errors.
He moves well for a ruckman, I just don't think he has the kicking skills or contested skills other midfielders on offer have.

2 of the games best coaches in Chris Scott - with Blicavs and often Luke Bevo with Bont - have used mobile players in the ruck to generate more run and around the ground midfield quality. Luke Jackson won't kick like Bont, I'm not crazy, but he can play like a midfielder at ground level in a similar way to Bont in the ruck and easily do what Blicavs does. A 4th midfielder is a great way to get an elite midfield!
Blicavs is an average ruckman and only really works at AFL level as a key back. As for Bontempelli, he has natural agility, speed, forward nous etc. that Jackson lacks.

Petracca hit the AFL with an ACL reconstruction, but he's slowly been building to become one of the only players in the comp who can get near 20 touches, 10 contested and a goal a game. It's Martin, Dusty, Robbie Gray and then Petracca. I wouldn't bet on him being Dusty but I'll bet on him being a serious footballer as soon as next year. In an awful team he took big steps forward. He's very hard to tackle and whilst his set shots have gone missing he can blast the ball as well as any. Watch and see.
Players who averaged 20+ disposals, 10+ contested possessions and 1+ goal a game in 2019:

Greene
Martin
Gray
Dangerfield

Petracca isn't on this list. And yes, Petracca is a talent, but he's not close to Martin and your midfield is thus not close to Richmond's who are the benchmark.

Brayshaw was awful this season and yes there's a bunch of names not nearly as good as Lambert. But we've got plenty of options. Tomlinson wasn't good in the finals, but hardly a surprise given he was dropped for week 1, asked to ruck a lot week 2 and all on the back of being pushed up by the Coniglio money. If not a Caddy he could be a Kamdyn McIntosh type, serviceable.

And yes you'll admit greater fitness with Prestia has resulted in better skills. That should happen for Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw who all did stuff all preseason last year.

Both Petracca and Oliver have the ability to be super dangerous from the midfield. Oliver's already done it in spurts, he's had games - going down to Geelong in 2018 for example - with 40 touches and 8 inside 50's. Petracca tore the top of the ladder Crows apart in 2017 in one of the only games he's played anywhere near full time midfield. It's time for him to deliver but I think he will.

Certainly Melbourne need at least 1 skilled outside guy and 1 inside/forward running type. But if one emerges from the current fringe group and then we draft or trade 1 next year that's fine by me. Doesn't make the Jackson and Pickett's picks wrong.
It's just weird that you've highlighted a need for outside skill types but then defend the recruitment of a ruckman when your own ruckman is in his peak and is one of the best ruckman in the league. A small forward is a need but drafting small forwards early is really dangerous. Like knightmare has talked about how Kemp is a bad fit for Carlton but he'd be a fantastic fit for a side crying out for some big forward craft.
 

Joey longshadow

Hostis Humani Generis
Oct 23, 2015
2,234
5,553
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Baltimore ravens
It has been mentioned in the media and no I'm not looking it up for you do it yourself.

You drafted a player to play the exact same role with the same skill set in Dow, you can pretend you didn't want Philp if it helps you sleep.
Yep same skill yet it seems we rated Dow higher and you rated Philip higher... Hence why we visited Dow and not Philip.. But if you think your club is as petty minded as you are that it's all about trumping Richmond instead of bettering your own list and trusting the judgement of your recruiters ...and if that helps you sleep at night well have at it then Gilligan
 

Dez!

Hall of Famer
Jul 14, 2007
33,080
24,242
Melbourne, Victoria
AFL Club
Melbourne
Other Teams
Chicago Bulls
Players who averaged 20+ disposals, 10+ contested possessions and 1+ goal a game in 2019:

Greene
Martin
Gray
Dangerfield

Petracca isn't on this list. And yes, Petracca is a talent, but he's not close to Martin and your midfield is thus not close to Richmond's who are the benchmark.
Petracca averaged 19 disposals, 9.5 contested possessions and a goal a game while playing the majority of his games up forward.

He's a bees dick away from being on that list and is actually becoming incredibly underrated.
 

Remove this Banner Ad