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screech

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Jun 19, 2002
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Talk starting that Big Picture may involve even more money for the EFL in exchange for a closed 18 club Premier League. Automatic promotion/relegation to be abolished, with clubs able to be elected or dismissed from the league by a vote of EPL clubs.

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SM

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Talk starting that Big Picture may involve even more money for the EFL in exchange for a closed 18 club Premier League. Automatic promotion/relegation to be abolished, with clubs able to be elected or dismissed from the league by a vote of EPL clubs.

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Rubbish.
 

screech

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Being driven by Liverpool, Man Utd & Man City with suggestion that the 18 clubs will resign from the FA and form the English Super League if they do not get their way. Less games to allow more space for European matches.

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SM

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Being driven by Liverpool, Man Utd & Man City with suggestion that the 18 clubs will resign from the FA and form the English Super League if they do not get their way. Less games to allow more space for European matches.

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Source?
 

Zidane98

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Talk starting that Big Picture may involve even more money for the EFL in exchange for a closed 18 club Premier League. Automatic promotion/relegation to be abolished, with clubs able to be elected or dismissed from the league by a vote of EPL clubs.

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Where have you read that? I see no talk of a closed Premier League or any talk of abolishing promotion/relegation.
 

moomba

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Oct 3, 2001
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Being driven by Liverpool, Man Utd & Man City with suggestion that the 18 clubs will resign from the FA and form the English Super League if they do not get their way. Less games to allow more space for European matches.

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I think it's more speculation more than anything that this will lead to no promotion no relegation.

Wouldn't rule us out as being aware of the project, but Liverpool and United seem to be the driving forces.

Nothing would surprise me I can't see them rushing into bed with us, or us rushing into bed with them.

I'm hoping (without a lot of confidence) we reject the proposal.
 

Dirty Bird

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If they get rid of promotion/relegation - **** off. English football can suck a c*ck

If they keep promotion/relegation - Probably more positives than negatives and they should do it. But I fear giving greater control to the big clubs could lead to greater issues down the line. Maybe rather than just saying which 9 teams have that power, go with 'teams who represented English in Europe this season' - I dont know why Southampton's opinion matters more than Leicester's
 

SM

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If they get rid of promotion/relegation - **** off. English football can suck a c*ck

If they keep promotion/relegation - Probably more positives than negatives and they should do it. But I fear giving greater control to the big clubs could lead to greater issues down the line. Maybe rather than just saying which 9 teams have that power, go with 'teams who represented English in Europe this season' - I dont know why Southampton's opinion matters more than Leicester's
I don't know why teams that represented England in Europe matter more either.
 

moomba

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Only thing "wrong" with one club, one vote is that richer clubs can't push through changes that benefit them, but not anyone else.

Precisely why it shouldn't change, no matter which way you want to give special voting rights.
 

Dirty Bird

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I don't know why teams that represented England in Europe matter more either.
They dont
But if we have to give power to the highest clubs like United and Liverpool to get what will help some lower tiered professional teams, I'd prefer this compromise then giving it to the same teams perpetually.
 

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SM

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They dont
But if we have to give power to the highest clubs like United and Liverpool to get what will help some lower tiered professional teams, I'd prefer this compromise then giving it to the same teams perpetually.
Why would we have to do anything? United and Liverpool don't run the PL.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
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Where have you read that? I see no talk of a closed Premier League or any talk of abolishing promotion/relegation.
By Jason Burt, Chief Football Correspondent at the Telegraph. The article is paywalled but this is the relevant bit.

Two years ago, Liverpool’s principal owner John W Henry gave an interview in which he once again expressed his frustration over the finances of English football.​
It was ahead of a key vote on how the money generated by the sale of international TV rights was shared, with the argument being that the bigger clubs are the greater draw in, say, Kuala Lumpur and should be given a larger piece of the pie.​
The ‘Big Six’ were driving it and eventually, after some backroom arm-twisting by the then Premier League chief executive Richard Scudamore to persuade the other 14 clubs to cede ground, they got their way. Interestingly, one chairman claimed at the time that it was the beginning of the end for the Premier League as we know it and the concept of 'one club, one vote' for the 20 shareholders.​
It was also telling that Henry drew a comparison with America when he talked about having “closed leagues” and how it was OK to share the cash around more evenly when there was no jeopardy. “It’s much more difficult to ask independent clubs to subsidise their competitors beyond a certain point when you have relegation and especially the way media is rapidly changing and being consumed today,” Henry argued.​
Remember what he said there – he talked about having to “subsidise” other clubs and how media is changing. They are key points in deciding what is really going on with Project Big Picture. It is not a re-distribution of wealth. It is offering, effectively, a “closed league”. It is, finally, the Americanisation of English football which presumably Henry and the Glazer family, who own Manchester United, have long been aiming for given their clubs are the sponsors behind what is cheerily called a “new model of governance”.​

 

Zidane98

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By Jason Burt, Chief Football Correspondent at the Telegraph. The article is paywalled but this is the relevant bit.

Two years ago, Liverpool’s principal owner John W Henry gave an interview in which he once again expressed his frustration over the finances of English football.​
It was ahead of a key vote on how the money generated by the sale of international TV rights was shared, with the argument being that the bigger clubs are the greater draw in, say, Kuala Lumpur and should be given a larger piece of the pie.​
The ‘Big Six’ were driving it and eventually, after some backroom arm-twisting by the then Premier League chief executive Richard Scudamore to persuade the other 14 clubs to cede ground, they got their way. Interestingly, one chairman claimed at the time that it was the beginning of the end for the Premier League as we know it and the concept of 'one club, one vote' for the 20 shareholders.​
It was also telling that Henry drew a comparison with America when he talked about having “closed leagues” and how it was OK to share the cash around more evenly when there was no jeopardy. “It’s much more difficult to ask independent clubs to subsidise their competitors beyond a certain point when you have relegation and especially the way media is rapidly changing and being consumed today,” Henry argued.​
Remember what he said there – he talked about having to “subsidise” other clubs and how media is changing. They are key points in deciding what is really going on with Project Big Picture. It is not a re-distribution of wealth. It is offering, effectively, a “closed league”. It is, finally, the Americanisation of English football which presumably Henry and the Glazer family, who own Manchester United, have long been aiming for given their clubs are the sponsors behind what is cheerily called a “new model of governance”.​

Thats got nothing to do with the curremt proposals which actualy address promotion & relegation. That will never change.
 

sorted

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
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Theres no talk of closed leagues under the current proposals.
But Project Big Picture proposes that certain clubs will have special voting rights which makes that possible in the future. As the article says, Henry has already spoken about closed leagues.
 

SM

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But Project Big Picture proposes that certain clubs will have special voting rights which makes that possible in the future. As the article says, Henry has already spoken about closed leagues.
It makes plenty of things possible, doesn't mean they're being proposed.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
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It makes plenty of things possible, doesn't mean they're being proposed.
Both Henry and Glazer are from America, where closed leagues are the norm. If a closed Premier League was their end game, I don't think they would be silly enough to state that at this stage. But they are giving themselves the power to introduce it in the future. Retaining one club one vote would help ensure it would not happen.
 

SM

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Both Henry and Glazer are from America, where closed leagues are the norm. If a closed Premier League was their end game, I don't think they would be silly enough to state that at this stage. But they are giving themselves the power to introduce it in the future. Retaining one club one vote would help ensure it would not happen.
The point is that closed leagues are not part of this plan of theirs as it stands so suggestions of it are hysterical nonsense.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
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The point is that closed leagues are not part of this plan of theirs as it stands so suggestions of it are hysterical nonsense.
Ok, we are going round in circles. The Premier League clubs have rejected the proposal so it's all off the table for now. It's good that they agreed a £50m rescue package for League One and Two clubs.
 

Zidane98

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Both Henry and Glazer are from America, where closed leagues are the norm. If a closed Premier League was their end game, I don't think they would be silly enough to state that at this stage. But they are giving themselves the power to introduce it in the future. Retaining one club one vote would help ensure it would not happen.
A closed league has never been discussed and is an impossibility with the FA being able to veto anything with their status as special shareholder. Really is hysterical nonsense to speculate on something that's never been proposed, never been discussed and that is impossible to happen in the future.
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
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A closed league has never been discussed and is an impossibility with the FA being able to veto anything with their status as special shareholder. Really is hysterical nonsense to speculate on something that's never been proposed, never been discussed and that is impossible to happen in the future.
It's not hysterical nonsense. I quoted the chief football writer of the Telegraph. Former FA chief executive Mark Palios says the same.

Former FA chief executive Mark Palios has warned that Project Big Picture would lead to the permanent dismantling of the football pyramid in this country and has questioned the role of EFL chairman Rick Parry in the proposal.​
Parry will talk to clubs from each of the EFL divisions on Tuesday, but cannot count on widespread support of his plan despite the promise of a £250million bail out.​
Palios, who owns League Two club Tranmere Rovers, is convinced that the proposal, led by Liverpool and Manchester United, and supported by Parry, would eventually result in the formation of a Premier League Two, from which there would be no relegation and promotion.​

“What you actually want to do is to smooth the gaps across the pyramid, rather than taking a route that will increase the gap sometime in the future and will mean the end of the pyramid as we know it with relegation and promotion right the way through. There would be no relegation and promotion from Premier League Two, and what’s to stop it if the ‘Big Six’ take control?​


The Football Supporters' Association have the same concerns.

The FSA have raised fears over a potentially closed league given the prospect of lopsided voting power, with the prospect of promotion and relegation being ended.​
"As six clubs can set the rules, who could stop them ending relegation from the Premier League and creating a franchise system like they have in US sports? No one," the FSA added.​

 

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