2020 best 22 discussion

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E Shed

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Was pondering the forwards today, now that Hogan has shown enough to say he's going to be a central pillar going forward.
That pass on the non preferred from Tabs exactly for Hogan to mark out in front was incredible and I honestly didn't think Tabs had that kind of kick in him (he is the ultimate player for confounding my expectations).
But it got me thinking Hogan & Tabs once they figure out how to make space and how to kick for each other is potentially a potent tall forward pairing.

If you put Walters and Sturt next to them that is a small and a medium who are both capable of contested marks, elite agility (+ pace in Sturts case) and clever at creating something out of nothing. Those 4 is the beginning of a elite team level attack.

Then we have Lobb, Fyfe going through and add 2 of Crowden, Shultz, Henry, Switta (if he can get fit) into the mix and its genuinely potent.

We obviously have a surplus of very good defenders in a good mix of shapes and sizes and the mids with Darcy improving all the time are well sorted. When Mundy retires is obviously going to hurt but with him around next year we can easily play finals.

Exciting times.
 

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theGav56

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I reckon our defenders really like and respect each other, and as a result they work as a team and support each other.

The forward line just doesn't give me the same feeling. Walters doesn't want to be there, he wants to play midfield. Hogan is uncomfortable there and so is Lobb, each for their own reasons. I get the feeling Taberner and Hogan don't actually like each other and their celebrations of each others work seems muted. Fyfe's appearances are both sporadic and enigmatic, and don't seem to have helped things gel.

I think the impact of someone like cuddles Conca on the defence is lacking forward, and I hope Walters can play a major role in bringing them together in 2021. And with the fresh energy of Sturt and Henry we may see some fire.
 

ImperialPurple

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No. Goodes played AA everywhere with about the same height/weight and arguably Logue has more athleticism.
Sorry should have put the 😉 in the end. Remember when Worsfold’s only Plan B when the weags were losing was to throw Adam Hunter forward? 😆

Adam Goodes is one of the best players I’ve seen. How he’s not in the GOAT conversation is mind-boggling imo.
 

prpl_jss

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Sorry should have put the 😉 in the end. Remember when Worsfold’s only Plan B when the weags were losing was to throw Adam Hunter forward? 😆

Adam Goodes is one of the best players I’ve seen. How he’s not in the GOAT conversation is mind-boggling imo.
Haha got ya. Yeah he’s right next to Pav for mine. And I think Logue can be unleashed and be really something special.
 

ImperialPurple

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I think people are forgetting just how good Hamling is. Considering Pearce’s fragility, I think we really need to be looking at Hamling, Cox, Logue as the KPDs.
I know this thread is ‘ideal scenario’, but I would still potentially rate those three ahead of Pearce considering what they all offer. I am not for one second saying that Pearce isn’t a great player, just that I’m not sure what he brings that the other three can’t as a combination. Maybe I’ve forgotten as he never plays, so tell me where I might be wrong. (Not being facetious or antagonistic - I want to know).
I know it’s an unpopular opinion / anathema, but I don’t think it’s unrealistic.
 
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bushchook

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Sorry should have put the 😉 in the end. Remember when Worsfold’s only Plan B when the weags were losing was to throw Adam Hunter forward? 😆

Adam Goodes is one of the best players I’ve seen. How he’s not in the GOAT conversation is mind-boggling imo.
Certainly I've seen player interviews where quite a few players rated him as the GOAT, primarily because players value premierships and brownlows quite highly, and Goodes has 2 of each.

Gary Ablett Jr is the only other player in the last 60 odd years to have multiple Brownlows and multiple premierships, so that puts Goodes in pretty rare company.

If Ablett ends up playing finals this year he could end up with a third premiership which would probably make him the lone candidate, but he might not play again.
 

bushchook

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I am not for one second saying that Pearce isn’t a great player, just that I’m not sure what he brings that the other three can’t as a combination.
For one thing, he brings being 200cm with the pace and agility of a midfielder.

I think you're forgetting how good Pearce is. Before he broke his ankle he was pencilled in as All Australian by many commentators.
 

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Ryan - Hamling - Cox
Logue - Pearce - Wilson
Aish - Cerra - Acres
Walters - Hogan - Sturt
Schultz - Taberner - Lobb

Darcy - Brayshaw - Serong

Fyfe - Mundy - Tucker - Young

I think both Logue and Hamling are mobile enough for this to work. Hill, Duman and Hughes unfortunately depth.

Henry has a fair way to go and will have to beat Schultz/Sturt out of a spot.
 

theGav56

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Ryan - Hamling - Cox
Logue - Pearce - Wilson
Aish - Cerra - Acres
Walters - Hogan - Sturt
Schultz - Taberner - Lobb

Darcy - Brayshaw - Serong

Fyfe - Mundy - Tucker - Young

I think both Logue and Hamling are mobile enough for this to work. Hill, Duman and Hughes unfortunately depth.

Henry has a fair way to go and will have to beat Schultz/Sturt out of a spot.
Fyfe on the bench. Got a feeling that won't happen.
 

bushchook

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Hamling is "pretty frail" after the one LTI this season that is partly due to surgery complications? I think people on this board have really short memories in regards to Hamling.
You do realise that there is a significant chance that Hamling's career is over? It's the depressing news that Fremantle is trying to keep a lid on, but the reality is that the complications he suffered are pretty serious, and Fremantle's doctors were out of ideas, to the point where Hamling took his business elsewhere.
 

FreoRicci

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I reckon our defenders really like and respect each other, and as a result they work as a team and support each other.

The forward line just doesn't give me the same feeling. Walters doesn't want to be there, he wants to play midfield. Hogan is uncomfortable there and so is Lobb, each for their own reasons. I get the feeling Taberner and Hogan don't actually like each other and their celebrations of each others work seems muted. Fyfe's appearances are both sporadic and enigmatic, and don't seem to have helped things gel.

I think the impact of someone like cuddles Conca on the defence is lacking forward, and I hope Walters can play a major role in bringing them together in 2021. And with the fresh energy of Sturt and Henry we may see some fire.
Agree greatly with forward line ‘gelling’. Has been a major problem ever since Pav even debuted, let alone retired.
Tabs and Hogan were quite upbeat and relished playing last season. What makes you think they don’t now? That’s interesting. We need the both to real take charge up the ladder.

Agree with Walters too. He wants to take the league by explosion by the way he plays. But opposition have worked him out in the middle. Let him rack up the ball and keep him out of the forward line.

The team needs him up forward kicking 3 a game and 20 disposals while doing it. That’s the way it is. He doesn’t have the body for a midfielder unfortunately. Nothing wrong with playing his role. He can have 80/20 forward midfield. Early in the season he was roaming around half back with pointless kicks.
 

theGav56

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Agree greatly with forward line ‘gelling’. Has been a major problem ever since Pav even debuted, let alone retired.
Tabs and Hogan were quite upbeat and relished playing last season. What makes you think they don’t now? That’s interesting. We need the both to real take charge up the ladder.

Agree with Walters too. He wants to take the league by explosion by the way he plays. But opposition have worked him out in the middle. Let him rack up the ball and keep him out of the forward line.

The team needs him up forward kicking 3 a game and 20 disposals while doing it. That’s the way it is. He doesn’t have the body for a midfielder unfortunately. Nothing wrong with playing his role. He can have 80/20 forward midfield. Early in the season he was roaming around half back with pointless kicks.
Just body language between Hogan and Taberner.
 

Ysaye

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Okay this is where I am at with the key position defenders:

Best actual defence in this order:
Pearce 9 - Very tall but also agile and extremely fast, could blanked both a Max King or a Charlie Cameron or anything in between.
Hamling 8 - pretty tall and athletic, consistently defeated good tall forwards, but not really suited for zippy smalls.
Logue 7 - Still learning but taken some big heads already; has extreme speed and endurance but not really the right height for a King / Dixon but can blanket smalls.
Cox 6 - Good positioning but not the same speed and athleticism or height - best suited for tall slower forwards where he can use his positioning.


Best offensive ability:
Cox 8 - consistent skills in setting up on the rebound, reliably puts to advantage
Logue 7 - dangerous long kick, good handball, a little bit confidence driven and still learning craft.
Hamling 5 - consistent enough but adds very little offensive value.
Pearce 4 - Can add offensive value but skills are not consistent enough to take those risks and can lead to bad turnovers.

My read on it is that the defence side is high enough on all four - to that end (if all available) I would probably get the two best offensive ability players plus the most versatile defender - so Pearce, Logue and Cox to deal with the third talls. But it is really close....
 

ImperialPurple

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For one thing, he brings being 200cm with the pace and agility of a midfielder.

I think you're forgetting how good Pearce is. Before he broke his ankle he was pencilled in as All Australian by many commentators.
Yes he’s really tall, and he’s really quick, and he’s really agile (incredible qualities) but he has chalk for bones between mid-shin and heel.
He’s 25 and had played 53 games. Joel Hamling has missed this whole season, and in the three years before that he played 53 games for us.
Hamling - shut down, first rate with spoils, intercepts, he’s saved us with crucial marks on the last line on many occasions;
Cox - great hands, intercepts, good defender, good skills, good size, makes time, great footy brain
Logue - speed and agility, great mark, always has 2nd and 3rd efforts.
Not dissing Pearce but he ‘coulda’ been AA if he wasn’t so fragile. He’s played an average of 7.5 games/year since he was drafted. I would love him to be fit and firing for the next 6-7 years, but going by past performances/injuries, he’d still barely make it to 100 games. 😞
 

Unique Name

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Fair enough. I think it is critical that they enjoy playing in the same forward line and I look forward to seeing that develop over the pre-season.
No I get it. I wouldn't say anyone in our forward line has a bond like the boys in the backline seem to have. Hopefully it'll come with time.
 

Fat Nyfe

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Some food for thought on the backline. Obviously it is stacked with names and we want to fit the injured guys back in there.

But I wonder if a back 6 of Logue/Pearce/Young/Ryan/Hamling/Wilson would have the same hustle and desperation as some of the less glamorous names they will replace in Hughes and Conca.
For a defence you want the best working group, not just a group of the best names.
 

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