Opinion 2020 Changes

[30yearpie]

And what do you think cutting the list massively does for morale?

Grundy is gone! I told everyone 6 week ago that he and Buckley had a fallout and Grundy told the club to trade him. That's why we have collapsed and Buckley refuses to give him coaches votes. He will win a Brownlow with Adelaide and we will diddly squat.

 

[GoldenMagpie16]

Trade Sier for a mid-second round pick to Dons
Trade Thomas to Brisbane for a late-second round pick
Trade Moore and Broomhead for Ed Richards and Dogs First Pick
Trade Sharanberg to Port Adelaide for late-second round pick
Don't trade Grundy (Unless it's a glorified offer) 1 first-rounder from Adelaide and Alex Keath/Sam Jacobs

Grab Paddy Ryder from Port Adelaide
Grab Tom Papley from Sydney
Grab Jack Newnes from St Kilda
Grab Adam Tomlinson from GWS

Aggressive Trades, but the end justify the means.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I’ve begun to read the thread title not as “Changes leading into 2020” but as “we have 2020 changes to our selected side going into this week’s game”.

 

[spartan-magpie]

Grundy is gone! I told everyone 6 week ago that he and Buckley had a fallout and Grundy told the club to trade him. That's why we have collapsed and Buckley refuses to give him coaches votes. He will win a Brownlow with Adelaide and we will diddly squat.

Where you there when this happened?

What was said “fallout” about?

And why hasn’t the media picked up on said fallout?

Buckley robbing Grundy of votes in a potential award would possibly reduce our asking price in “trade to Adelaide”.

Would be easier to ask for the 2 early firsts and ROB in exchange for Grundy With extra accolades used in the justification of the high price for our best ruckman in 40 years.

 

[Darkyprotector]

You could apply the same obtuse analysis to any club and get the same result.

Is that right

Name the other clubs in this position
Total football played in life
Cox 6 years
Keane first year
Murphy 3rd year
Tohill first year
Atu 3rd year
Wilson 4th
Magden 6
Lynch 3rd
T brown 3rd

Not very speculative is it
Then add
9 chronically injured


Add that up and then add those undeveloped
Exceeds 21

 

[jackcass]

Is that right

Name the other clubs in this position
Total football played in life
Cox 6 years
Keane first year
Murphy 3rd year
Tohill first year
Atu 3rd year
Wilson 4th
Magden 6
Lynch 3rd
T brown 3rd

Not very speculative is it
Then add
9 chronically injured


Add that up and then add those undeveloped
Exceeds 21

I'm not even sure what you're asking, or how you've derived those numbers, or why you've included Cat B rookies who are obviously going to be speculative. Or the recent draftees, aren't they all speculative?

How many other clubs have a full quota of 3 Cat B rookies?

 

[Damon_3388]

It's Tim Time

Star midfielder Tim Taranto has extended his contract with the GIANTS through to the end of 2022.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

We can get him for his prime years (ages 25-29, 2023-2027) then

 

[Darkyprotector]

I'm not even sure what you're asking, or how you've derived those numbers, or why you've included Cat B rookies who are obviously going to be speculative. Or the recent draftees, aren't they all speculative?

How many other clubs have a full quota of 3 Cat B rookies?

Not a lot
The point jackass is the list is 39 + 2 rookies + 3 b rooks
44 but I may be short 1
Fact is aprox 50% are either undeveloped , constantly injury prone or just not up to it

It forces us to give games to guys not up to it , who then create extra strain on other parts of the list

Teams are smart enough to exploit our weaknesses and it's reflective in the results we produce

Appleby vs gws
Extra speed in the forward 50
Young bodies ex north game

It's now time to act
And yes draft picks are selective , speculative and not an exact science

But we compound the issue by believing we can create players put of non traditional backgrounds
Adds to our list exposure

We've stuffed this right up

 

[jackcass]

Not a lot
The point jackass is the list is 39 + 2 rookies + 3 b rooks
44 but I may be short 1
Fact is aprox 50% are either undeveloped , constantly injury prone or just not up to it

It forces us to give games to guys not up to it , who then create extra strain on other parts of the list

Teams are smart enough to exploit our weaknesses and it's reflective in the results we produce

Appleby vs gws
Extra speed in the forward 50
Young bodies ex north game

It's now time to act
And yes draft picks are selective , speculative and not an exact science

But we compound the issue by believing we can create players put of non traditional backgrounds
Adds to our list exposure

We've stuffed this right up

Nah. The list is currently 40 + 4x Cat A rookies + 3x Cat B rookies + Nobel. That's 48 in total.

Every club has undeveloped players on their list and they compound that every draft period. You're being disingenuous if you're adding the guys we've added via the draft over the last 2 years as every club has done exactly the same thing. You're also being disingenuous if you're adding the Cat B rookies (Madgen, Keane, Wilson) to that discussion as the guidelines only allow access to that list to guys who lack exposure and are undeveloped.

I think this is very much converting a molehill into a mountain.

 

[Darkyprotector]

Nah. The list is currently 40 + 4x Cat A rookies + 3x Cat B rookies + Nobel. That's 48 in total.

Every club has undeveloped players on their list and they compound that every draft period. You're being disingenuous if you're adding the guys we've added via the draft over the last 2 years as every club has done exactly the same thing. You're also being disingenuous if you're adding the Cat B rookies (Madgen, Keane, Wilson) to that discussion as the guidelines only allow access to that list to guys who lack exposure and are undeveloped.

I think this is very much converting a molehill into a mountain.

As I mentioned I might be wrong on a number what 4 off but we always go for the "chance" , we don't go solid , we're always a chance
So
As stated 9 guys in experienced
9 guys constantly under a injury cloud
That's why we have zero selection integrity and weak spots all over the field

We sign sack , but don't consider him
We play noble miles away from being ready
We play Thomas when he hasn't earn a game
We play Daicos who has done zip at vfl and is regressing
We play seir when not fit
We play wills when he's not up to it
WE have no speed

But you stay in denial

 

[jackcass]

As I mentioned I might be wrong on a number what 4 off but we always go for the "chance" , we don't go solid , we're always a chance
So
As stated 9 guys in experienced
9 guys constantly under a injury cloud
That's why we have zero selection integrity and weak spots all over the field

We sign sack , but don't consider him
We play noble miles away from being ready
We play Thomas when he hasn't earn a game
We play Daicos who has done zip at vfl and is regressing
We play seir when not fit
We play wills when he's not up to it
WE have no speed

But you stay in denial

That's a completely different discussion. You claimed we were overloaded with speculative players (relative to other teams) and I'm just waiting for you to make that case. Then maybe we can look at your list of 9 and the issues you've raised with selection integrity.

 

[loki04]

I'm not even sure what you're asking, or how you've derived those numbers, or why you've included Cat B rookies who are obviously going to be speculative. Or the recent draftees, aren't they all speculative?

How many other clubs have a full quota of 3 Cat B rookies?

I think it's totally fair to include them given the obvious plan for developing youth KPPs has come 80% through CAT B listings without any low end picks used over a decade outside Moore.

Hine needs 1-2 of those rookies to make it or his big "risk" of ignoring drafting from low picks for the spine in favour of high risk cat b's is going to screw us in time if we are not already seeing it.

 

[jackcass]

I think it's totally fair to include them given the obvious plan for developing youth KPPs has come 80% through CAT B listings without any low end picks used over a decade outside Moore.

Hine needs 1-2 of those rookies to make it or his big "risk" of ignoring drafting from low picks for the spine in favour of high risk cat b's is going to screw us in time if we are not already seeing it.

I think you're taking the discussion on a completely different tangent. To bring it back to (what I think was) Darky's point about the number of speculative players (as per his list) on our list, 1st & 2nd year draftees are always going to be speculative. What is it, something like 1 in 5 will go on to play 100 games. As we've seen recently with players like Boyd and Freeman, even a top 10 pick doesn't assure you of gaining a long term player let alone a gun.

Cat B rookies, by their very nature, are speculative. They're players from different countries or who have been absent from the sport for at least 3 years. Every club has draftees, I assume every club has (or would like to have) Cat B rookies, so I'm not sure how we differ from other clubs in terms of speculative players on our list.

Happy for you to think otherwise.

 

[Darkyprotector]

That's a completely different discussion. You claimed we were overloaded with speculative players (relative to other teams) and I'm just waiting for you to make that case. Then maybe we can look at your list of 9 and the issues you've raised with selection integrity.

Firstly
T brown didn't play school footy to his last year , didn't play junior footy
Source his father
Secondly atu was recruited from rugby , played 1 year
Source his mouth and his grandmother
Murphy
I year school footy , wicket keeper Aussie juniors
Source Robert shaw
Max lynch
I year m
Tac, soccer goalkeeper
That's 4 guys

You Wanta maybe back up your claims
WHich clubs has more under developed on primary list
Feel free
Fire away

Validate your argument

Any clubs
I'll give you the figian at Geelong
Ill give you McKenna
I'll give you Connor glass

And two of em are cat b

 

[loki04]

I think you're taking the discussion on a completely different tangent. To bring it back to (what I think was) Darky's point about the number of speculative players (as per his list) on our list, 1st & 2nd year draftees are always going to be speculative. What is it, something like 1 in 5 will go on to play 100 games. As we've seen recently with players like Boyd and Freeman, even a top 10 pick doesn't assure you of gaining a long term player let alone a gun.

Cat B rookies, by their very nature, are speculative. They're players from different countries or who have been absent from the sport for at least 3 years. Every club has draftees, I assume every club has (or would like to have) Cat B rookies, so I'm not sure how we differ from other clubs in terms of speculative players on our list.

Happy for you to think otherwise.

No I am making a point that whilst all cat b's by there nature are speculative, we have used it to load up in an area (KPP) we aren't using low end picks on. Hine clearly as a tactic of trying to find high athletic crossovers and hoping it turns out in our favour with time, but it is very risky given the spine is arguably the most crucial part of most successful teams and cat b's lack of AR background.

So his point of too many highly speculative types is correct in that the roles we are in need of have all mostly been filled by cat b rookies, we have nothing coming through with background from elite KPP AR pathways.
So yes while pick 1-10 still has a small chance of failure it in comparison to pick 30 or 60 or 90 or cat b rookies, is infinitely greater chance of making it then not.

So whilst his point is slightly different it is also along the same lines.

 

[barrackers]

Trade Sier for a mid-second round pick to Dons
Trade Thomas to Brisbane for a late-second round pick
Trade Moore and Broomhead for Ed Richards and Dogs First Pick
Trade Sharanberg to Port Adelaide for late-second round pick
Don't trade Grundy (Unless it's a glorified offer) 1 first-rounder from Adelaide and Alex Keath/Sam Jacobs

Grab Paddy Ryder from Port Adelaide
Grab Tom Papley from Sydney
Grab Jack Newnes from St Kilda
Grab Adam Tomlinson from GWS

Aggressive Trades, but the end justify the means.

I'd want Naughton included in any deal with the dogs, as Moore is one of the few elite talent developing talls we have. He'd be a great like for like replacement, which is exactly why the dogs wouldn't be it. Swapping one young tall for another young tall wouldn't enhance the dogs list, with the two effectively cancelling each other out.

 

[Darkyprotector]

I think you're taking the discussion on a completely different tangent. To bring it back to (what I think was) Darky's point about the number of speculative players (as per his list) on our list, 1st & 2nd year draftees are always going to be speculative. What is it, something like 1 in 5 will go on to play 100 games. As we've seen recently with players like Boyd and Freeman, even a top 10 pick doesn't assure you of gaining a long term player let alone a gun.

Cat B rookies, by their very nature, are speculative. They're players from different countries or who have been absent from the sport for at least 3 years. Every club has draftees, I assume every club has (or would like to have) Cat B rookies, so I'm not sure how we differ from other clubs in terms of speculative players on our list.

Happy for you to think otherwise.

Fair dinkum
You NEVER TRY TO UNDERSTAND
Name a club that has 36 years of total footy experience spread over 9 players
Name any club

To think you still feel that a draft choice is the same as picking a kid from another sport

Lol

 

[TW Sherrin]

I don’t think the retirement rate is too high from broken fingers

Lol

 

[No SPIN]

Fair dinkum
You NEVER TRY TO UNDERSTAND
Name a club that has 36 years of total footy experience spread over 9 players
Name any club

To think you still feel that a draft choice is the same as picking a kid from another sport

Lol

Clearly the Cat B inexperience is expected.
For all the other players please make a case for why their raw talent does not justify a place on the list despite their inexperience.

Eg. Why do you think Murphy, T Brown it Atu will not make it.

 

[sr36]

That's very, very old... so will be the oldest in the comp.

It's not a problem. Pendles is the only over 30 who is core, the rest are fringe or depth.

 

[sirlothie]

It's not a problem. Pendles is the only over 30 who is core, the rest are fringe or depth.

Really? I'd like to see what our team looks like for players 25 and under. It would look pretty scarily weak.

 

[sr36]

Really? I'd like to see what our team looks like for players 25 and under. It would look pretty scarily weak.

There will be an outcry if it happens, but we really need to draft mids this year.
Overall though, I think the list is in good shape.

 

[Bad Horse]

There will be an outcry if it happens, but we really need to draft mids this year.
Overall though, I think the list is in good shape.

We will have a season of bottom 2 in the next 5 years. We have overdone the investing for now caper and spent too much too often for too little. It will bite us in that timeframe.

 

[Thatsmyname]

Really? I'd like to see what our team looks like for players 25 and under. It would look pretty scarily weak.

*Treloar 26 but durable

Sen:
Murphy Keane Scharenberg
Quaynor Kelly Langdon

Grundy Treloar Adams
Phillips Maynard Crisp

Brown WHE Stephenson
Moore De Goey Daicos


Sier Aish T Brown Lynch

 

[Quicky]

*Treloar 26 but durable

Sen:
Murphy Keane Schaz
Quaynor Kelly J Aish

Grundy Treloar Adams
Phillips Maynard Crisp

Brown WHE Stephenson
Moore De Goey Daicos


Sier Noble T Brown Lynch

With Maynard and Crisp in that midfield it shows we lack the next generation of midfielders. Unless we consider De Goey in there in which case the forwards are missing something. I see it like this:

FB: Maynard - Keane - Scharenberg
HB: Crisp - Moore - Quaynor

C: Phillips - Treloar* - Aish
Fol: Grundy - Adams - Sier

HF: C Brown - Mihocek* - WHE
FF: De Goey - Wilson - Stephenson

Int: Murphy, T Brown, Noble, Daicos

*26yo

I reckon that highlights a need for higher quality developing key positions and midfielders with physical size and foot speed.