Unofficial Preview 2020 Disenchantment

[tribey]

There's KT, who has lost any touch he used to have.

He said this 2 years ago.

Within seconds of opening yesterday’s press conference he mentions beating the Eagles in Perth.

All we need is a cameo from Bill Murray and Andie McDowell at this point.

 

[Capital Power]

I did get the impression at the time that the only win that really mattered was in Shanghai. Looking back at the season, we did make a lot of fuss about a handful of good games, without every really committing to working on playing like that every week.

6 goals one week, 22 the next. We got explanations like "tough comp" and "everyone is inconsistent" instead of real analysis and resolution. To be honest I can't see anything that points to this being any different next year.

 

[Macca19]

I'll be optimistic for next year. I always am. With a couple of young kids who have 'bought in' to football and to Port, I can't go to games and be negative. It's important that they try and look at the positives first.

I'm definitely disenchanted by the situation. All I can hope is that we see some of our kids really rise into excellent players - if guys like Marshall, Garner, Howard, Farrell, Butters can really improve their game and become consistent performers, and if guys like Woodcock and Hayes can come in and have any sort of impact, then it probably does help to offset the inconcsistency of our senior group and we probably play finals.

One can only hope anyway

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I'll be optimistic for next year. I always am. With a couple of young kids who have 'bought in' to football and to Port, I can't go to games and be negative. It's important that they try and look at the positives first.

I'm definitely disenchanted by the situation. All I can hope is that we see some of our kids really rise into excellent players - if guys like Marshall, Garner, Howard, Farrell, Butters can really improve their game and become consistent performers, and if guys like Woodcock and Hayes can come in and have any sort of impact, then it probably does help to offset the inconcsistency of our senior group and we probably play finals.

One can only hope anyway

If I had confidence that most of them would get picked I would be really excited about next year (regardless of results).

I have zero confidence of that.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tribey]

If I had confidence that most of them would get picked I would be really excited about next year (regardless of results).

I have zero confidence of that.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Especially now that Ken is really coaching for his career now.

70% of what’s left of Brad Ebert > 100% of raw kid who needs games, etc.

 

[bow and arrow]

That's the problem. And for more than one or two games and then never seen again!

If I had confidence that most of them would get picked I would be really excited about next year (regardless of results).

I have zero confidence of that.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

On SM-A530F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Janus]

He said this 2 years ago.

Within seconds of opening yesterday’s press conference he mentions beating the Eagles in Perth.

All we need is a cameo from Bill Murray and Andie McDowell at this point.

The difference is, the 2017 team didn't have the likes of Howard, Marshall, Drew, Butters, Rozee, Duursma, Burton, Houston and Bonner playing 10 games or more in it.

The pendulum swings both ways - if you took a photo of it, you wouldn't be able to tell if it was swinging to the left or to the right. It's the momentum that provides context.

 

[tribey]

The difference is, the 2017 team didn't have the likes of Howard, Marshall, Drew, Butters, Rozee, Duursma, Burton, Houston and Bonner playing 10 games or more in it.

But it did have Wingard (23yo), Clurey (23yo), Wines (22yo), Impey (22yo), Byrne-Jones (21yo), Amon (21yo), Powell-Pepper (19yo) and Houston (19yo) playing a minimum of 14 games in it.

Do you not see the inherent flaw in your excuse-making?

 

[Janus]

But it did have Wingard (23yo), Clurey (23yo), Wines (22yo), Impey (22yo), Byrne-Jones (21yo), Amon (21yo), Powell-Pepper (19yo) and Houston (19yo) playing a minimum of 14 games in it.

Do you not see the inherent flaw in your excuse-making?

Except for Wingard, Impey and Polec, all of those players are still here, aren't they? Clurey, Byrne-Jones, Amon and Houston had stellar years this year and played every game they were available.

In 2017 we believed the pendulum had enough momentum to push us over the top, which is why we went after Watts, Motlop and Rockliff. The reality was that in 2017, we had almost reached the pinnacle - we reached it at the bye of 2018 and started the trajectory back down. There's a few reasons for this...one of which was losing Impey and Trengove, two players which got the best out of Wingard (who wanted to leave as soon as those guys were gone). Trengove was also the connecting force between the young players and the older players.

So the club said '* this' and traded out assets for high draft picks to replace what was lost and re-establish a connection between the group, which reset the pendulum and started the swing again...only this time with more elite players added to the weight of the pendulum to give it more momentum.

I don't make excuses. Excuses are just a way of saying that it wasn't your fault when you don't want to change.

I look for reasons.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

What happen's if Rozee, Duursma and Butters all get the 2nd year blues.

What will the spin be then. We haven't factored out any chance of that happening. Its all positive, positive, positive about them.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I don't make excuses. Excuses are just a way of saying that it wasn't your fault when you don't want to change.

I look for reasons.

We all want change. The club doesn't really want it if its too painful.

The biggest reason for failure is we have the wrong people in charge.

 

[tribey]

What happen's if Rozee, Duursma and Butters all get the 2nd year blues.

What will the spin be then. We haven't factored out any chance of that happening. Its all positive, positive, positive about them.

Exactly.

Wines plateauing to whatever he is now, Wingard and Polec departing and SPP allegedly being out the door within two years was unthinkable during 2017, which was our best season of the past 5.

In any given year there will be 8-10 guys aged 18-23 who will receive a concerted bloc of games and there are absolutely nil guarantees with any of them.

 

[Janus]

What happen's if Rozee, Duursma and Butters all get the 2nd year blues.

What will the spin be then. We haven't factored out any chance of that happening. Its all positive, positive, positive about them.

2nd year blues is just a cop out from sides with a poor culture that recruit young players but don't hold them to a high standard from the outset.

Did Chris Judd get second year blues? Did Luke Hodge? Franklin? Roughead? Cripps? Fyfe? Any of the players who are actually stars of the competition?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

2nd year blues is just a cop out from sides with a poor culture that recruit young players but don't hold them to a high standard from the outset.

Did Chris Judd get second year blues? Did Luke Hodge? Franklin? Roughead? Cripps? Fyfe? Any of the players who are actually stars of the competition?

That's right what happens if these players aren't the champions everyone thinks they will be?

Hodge stagnated and went backwards in his 2nd year compared to his first. Judd didn't. Hodge took 4 or 5 years before he started playing like a champion.

Dont remember the others first and second so can't comment.

 

[tribey]

That's right what happens if these players aren't the champions everyone thinks they will be?

Hodge stagnated and went backwards in his 2nd year compared to his first. Judd didn't. Hodge took 4 or 5 years before he started playing like a champion.

Dont remember the others first and second so can't comment.

Conversely, Wingard (2013) and Wines (2014) were both considered consensus hindsight #1 picks and future Hall of Famers after their sophomore seasons.

What on earth happened under The Owl’s watch?

 

[manureid]

2nd year blues is just a cop out from sides with a poor culture that recruit young players but don't hold them to a high standard from the outset.

Did Chris Judd get second year blues? Did Luke Hodge? Franklin? Roughead? Cripps? Fyfe? Any of the players who are actually stars of the competition?

So basically us.

 

[Granny Duurs is Lovely]

In 2017 we believed the pendulum had enough momentum to push us over the top, which is why we went after Watts, Motlop and Rockliff. The reality was that in 2017, we had almost reached the pinnacle - we reached it at the bye of 2018 and started the trajectory back down. There's a few reasons for this...one of which was losing Impey and Trengove, two players which got the best out of Wingard (who wanted to leave as soon as those guys were gone). Trengove was also the connecting force between the young players and the older players.

So the club said 'fu** this' and traded out assets for high draft picks to replace what was lost and re-establish a connection between the group, which reset the pendulum and started the swing again...only this time with more elite players added to the weight of the pendulum to give it more momentum.

I don't make excuses. Excuses are just a way of saying that it wasn't your fault when you don't want to change.

I look for reasons.

I don't accept this for a moment. Firstly, the club has always had longer term list management plans than that, as evidenced by our choosing to double up in 2016 to get SPP and Marshall over the options around that mark in the 2017 draft like Zac Bailey (the player chosen with our 2017 pick) who haven't shown much. This was also seen by our awareness of the very strong SA talent in the 2018 draft and going hard in the early part of the draft.

Secondly, look at our list turnover from 2017. We had 2 retirements and 11 changes total. Those numbers are akin to a rebuilding team not a team topping up for a finals push. The only teams that had more list changes than us were West Coast (5 retirements), Brisbane (18th), Gold Coast (17th), Carlton (16th) and Fremantle (14th). We had practically all our depth move on one way or another and they had to be replaced if we were to remain at all competitive. Motlop, Rockliff and Watts were the cheapest way of doing that (in terms of draft picks) whilst in theory improving the team. There was no top-up though because we were replacing so many players.

Anyone who thought turning over that many players wouldn't impact us on field was kidding themselves.

 

[Janus]

That's right what happens if these players aren't the champions everyone thinks they will be?

Hodge stagnated and went backwards in his 2nd year compared to his first. Judd didn't. Hodge took 4 or 5 years before he started playing like a champion.

Dont remember the others first and second so can't comment.

Judd was surrounded by senior players that pushed him.

Hodge was surrounded by players the same age.

Your environment plays a large factor in your emotional and mental development.

The club is saying Rozee, Butters and Duursma will be superstars...because the introduction of a seed of doubt germinates into a harvest of mediocrity. Which is what happened to Wingard and Wines - if you convince yourself you don’t have the capability to do something, you will make it a reality.

Jonas said that one of the big factors that clubs are exploring is the mental space and how it drives performance.

They need to retrain their thought process to see challenges as opportunities rather than obstacles.

Like when North jumped us in the first quarter - what the players should have been thinking was “This is an opportunity to create a historical comeback”, not “This means we won’t play finals.”

When taking a set shot for goal - “This is an opportunity to feel the emotion and excitement of kicking a goal. I can already feel it, so it must mean I’m going to kick it” rather than “The responsibility to kick this goal is on my shoulders, I hope I don’t miss. I’ll feel like s**t if I do.”

Your perspective creates your world.

 

[Janus]

I don't accept this for a moment. Firstly, the club has always had longer term list management plans than that, as evidenced by our choosing to double up in 2016 to get SPP and Marshall over the options around that mark in the 2017 draft like Zac Bailey (the player chosen with our 2017 pick) who haven't shown much. This was also seen by our awareness of the very strong SA talent in the 2018 draft and going hard in the early part of the draft.

Secondly, look at our list turnover from 2017. We had 2 retirements and 11 changes total. Those numbers are akin to a rebuilding team not a team topping up for a finals push. The only teams that had more list changes than us were West Coast (5 retirements), Brisbane (18th), Gold Coast (17th), Carlton (16th) and Fremantle (14th). We had practically all our depth move on one way or another and they had to be replaced if we were to remain at all competitive. Motlop, Rockliff and Watts were the cheapest way of doing that (in terms of draft picks) whilst in theory improving the team. There was no top-up though because we were replacing so many players.

Anyone who thought turning over that many players wouldn't impact us on field was kidding themselves.

The 2017 losses weren’t best 22 players except for Impey.

The list changes we made were for the future past the 2018 best 22 - it was all about getting the picks necessary to trade up to get Rozee. Go through the trades and you’ll see what happened - we used a whole bunch of those picks when we traded with Fremantle, Hawthorn and Brisbane.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Judd was surrounded by senior players that pushed him.

Hodge was surrounded by players the same age.

What's that got to do with the 2nd year blues??

You didn't put that caveat on it. You said all champions don't have 2nd year blues. That's just not right.

Judd was surround by plenty of players a similar age. When the Eagles won the flag they talked about a dynasty as only 1 player was over 30. They then drug ****ed themselves and no dynasty occurred.

In 2002 Judd's debut as an 18 year old he played in that game with Cox 20, Kerr 18, Glass 20, Embley 20, Gardiner 22, Fletcher 22, Wirrapunda 22, Jones 22. He played with 6 players 25 years or older in that game.

In 2002 Hodge's debut as a 17 year old and 316 days, and played in that game with Mitchell 19, Campbell 19, Bateman 20, a few nobodies and also played with 11 players who were 25 years or older - Crawford, Graham, Harford, Holland, Chick, Barker, Tallis, Vandenberg, and 3 others.

 

[Janus]

What's that got to do with the 2nd year blues??

You didn't put that caveat on it. You said all champions don't have 2nd year blues. That's just not right.

Judd was surround by plenty of players a similar age. When the Eagles won the flag they talked about a dynasty as only 1 player was over 30. They then drug f’ed themselves and no dynasty occurred.

In 2002 Judd's debut as an 18 year old he played in that game with Cox 20, Kerr 18, Glass 20, Embley 20, Gardiner 22, Fletcher 22, Wirrapunda 22, Jones 22. He played with 6 players 25 years or older in that game.

In 2002 Hodge's debut as a 17 year old and 316 days, and played in that game with Mitchell 19, Campbell 19, Bateman 20, a few nobodies and also played with 11 players who were 25 years or older - Crawford, Graham, Harford, Holland, Chick, Barker, Tallis, Vandenberg, and 3 others.

How many of those 6 players over 25 were premiership players from 1994?

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

How many of those 6 players over 25 were premiership players from 1994?

3

 

[Granny Duurs is Lovely]

The 2017 losses weren’t best 22 players except for Impey.

The list changes we made were for the future past the 2018 best 22 - it was all about getting the picks necessary to trade up to get Rozee. Go through the trades and you’ll see what happened - we used a whole bunch of those picks when we traded with Fremantle, Hawthorn and Brisbane.

100% agree with that. Its just that you dont top up for a flag by moving on your depth - those guys are critical during a long season. You move on your depth when your list isn't good enough. We clearly knew our list wasn't good enough.

 

[StrappingTape]

Except for Wingard, Impey and Polec, all of those players are still here, aren't they? Clurey, Byrne-Jones, Amon and Houston had stellar years this year and played every game they were available.

In 2017 we believed the pendulum had enough momentum to push us over the top, which is why we went after Watts, Motlop and Rockliff. The reality was that in 2017, we had almost reached the pinnacle - we reached it at the bye of 2018 and started the trajectory back down. There's a few reasons for this...one of which was losing Impey and Trengove, two players which got the best out of Wingard (who wanted to leave as soon as those guys were gone). Trengove was also the connecting force between the young players and the older players.

So the club said 'fu** this' and traded out assets for high draft picks to replace what was lost and re-establish a connection between the group, which reset the pendulum and started the swing again...only this time with more elite players added to the weight of the pendulum to give it more momentum.

I don't make excuses. Excuses are just a way of saying that it wasn't your fault when you don't want to change.

I look for reasons.

Great fantasy tale. Just needs a bridge and an ogre.

 

[elpirate]

Anyone who doesn't renew their memberships over coaching can p**s off. Same type of people who didn't show up at AAMI and only want to ride with the club for the glory times.

Nah, this is wrong.

I was there for every single one of those s**tful games at West lakes. All of them. This is completely different. I would happily take a genuine, full blooded clean out of all the no hopers that treat this club like a Contiki holiday and the ensuing rebuild under a new coach. I'd gladly sit through that and cop some beltings along the way, because I could actually see hope at the end of it all.

There's no rejuvenation happening now. In fact, i don't even think there's a plan. One year it's trading and topping up for top 4, the next it's back to the draft. If you're going to truly invest in your youth you don't do it half arsed. We're doing it half arsed.

I wish I didnt renew this year.

Have been a member since 2001, attending as many games as i can both home and away.

Really do not want to renew next year and 90% sold on not doing so.

I feel ive earnt my stance.