List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals - Part 2 (The 2020 Draft)

[kickthething]

Sorry Kapers but you lost me when you used the Brownlow Medal as a metric for measuring midfielders. That award is rubbish as far as I'm concerned now days. It rewards players based on the stat sheet and highlight reels, and ignores the players who actually contribute most in games.

As for Phillips, I don't consider him to be just another accumulating midfielder. I consider him to be a smart midfielder, something which I think many Brownlow Medalists - Fyfe, Dangerfield, Mitchell, Priddis, Swan - are not. They play great individual games rather than games that help their teams succeed, often biting off more than they can chew, and often butchering it, but hey - it looks exciting on TV and they got 150 for my Fantasy team, so they MUST be the best players in the comp!

So Phillips was a very different case. He didn't share their attributes. He played a lot like a mixture of Pendlebury and Prestia.

If Phillips was available at our pick McDonald wouldn’t have been and I would have taken him, he will be a star mid for the next 10 yrs. McDonald is such a good get for us, we should extend his contract ASAP. W e have almost cured our forward line issues with one pick. Now work on getting the ball in there with some class

 

[caesar88]

If Phillips was available at our pick McDonald wouldn’t have been and I would have taken him, he will be a star mid for the next 10 yrs. McDonald is such a good get for us, we should extend his contract ASAP. W e have almost cured our forward line issues with one pick. Now work on getting the ball in there with some class

Yep I am very happy. Obviously I saw our midfield as our biggest priority and saw Phillips as the best prospect in the pool, so that would've been the dream overlap. However we could never lose if we improved our forward stocks either. Even Thilthorpe who I was a fan of, I wouldn't have been convinced that he would help our scoring issues given he is more of a CHF. So I'm stoked we have McDonald, and I think you're right that we should try and lock him down long-term, as key forwards tend to go walkabouts!

 

[kickthething]

Yep I am very happy. Obviously I saw our midfield as our biggest priority and saw Phillips as the best prospect in the pool, so that would've been the dream overlap. However we could never lose if we improved our forward stocks either. Even Thilthorpe who I was a fan of, I wouldn't have been convinced that he would help our scoring issues given he is more of a CHF. So I'm stoked we have McDonald, and I think you're right that we should try and lock him down long-term, as key forwards tend to go walkabouts!

Yep, agree. Thilthorpe for mine is risky because of his body, I am glad we didnt go there or Holland’s for that matter even given their obvious elite sill sets.

 

[Kapers]

Sorry Kapers but you lost me when you used the Brownlow Medal as a metric for measuring midfielders. That award is rubbish as far as I'm concerned now days. It rewards players based on the stat sheet and highlight reels, and ignores the players who actually contribute most in games.

As for Phillips, I don't consider him to be just another accumulating midfielder. I consider him to be a smart midfielder, something which I think many Brownlow Medalists - Fyfe, Dangerfield, Mitchell, Priddis, Swan - are not. They play great individual games rather than games that help their teams succeed, often biting off more than they can chew, and often butchering it, but hey - it looks exciting on TV and they got 150 for my Fantasy team, so they MUST be the best players in the comp!

So Phillips was a very different case. He didn't share their attributes. He played a lot like a mixture of Pendlebury and Prestia.

I don't agree with using the Brownlow either, I use it out of laziness, but I'm pretty sure I could get 10 midfielders that you like that weren't first rounders, whereas I couldn't do the same with Key Forwards.

That's both a product of the fact that you need more mids than key forwards, but also that Key Forwards are just worth more.

 

[BloodySwan]

Key forwards take a few years before they become anything reliable. Going to be a lot of disappointed fans in the next couple years complaining about McDonald not delivering.

 

[Wolfgang West]

Not necessarily, Saints recruited well at the end of 2019 while a bottom 4 team having just appointed Ratten.
[/QUOTE]

Some people never learn. How many times have you been told ? Speaking the truth around these parts will only get you howled down ! Usually with an Ignorant that’s bullshit or that’s rubbish. Please heed this warning or you will be reported for breaking Swans Board regulations !

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Why are you showing me names I've already said I'm mostly unimpressed by?

So you lament our midfield and are mostly unimpressed by the best midfielders.

Right.

 

[kickthething]

Key forwards take a few years before they become anything reliable. Going to be a lot of disappointed fans in the next couple years complaining about McDonald not delivering.

True, at least his 1 yr in the WAFL helps speed that process

 

[Millky95]

Key forwards take a few years before they become anything reliable. Going to be a lot of disappointed fans in the next couple years complaining about McDonald not delivering.

He'll bloom in 2024 for his first year with WCE after we trade him for their 4th ruck again

 

[caesar88]

I don't agree with using the Brownlow either, I use it out of laziness, but I'm pretty sure I could get 10 midfielders that you like that weren't first rounders, whereas I couldn't do the same with Key Forwards.

That's both a product of the fact that you need more mids than key forwards, but also that Key Forwards are just worth more.

I don't agree they are worth more. There are certainly a lot more mids than key forwards in the competition, but I'd say the state of midfielders has become so bad that there are about the same number of truly elite mids as there are truly elite forwards. Once you take away the ineffective accumulators, the highlights packages who offer little else, and the hack-kickers, there aren't many left.

But it really depends on what you consider a great or elite mid to be. I can only speak from my personal preference but I think the best mids are the ones who work with the midfielders around them. The idea of a midfield as a group that works together often gets overshadowed by the idea of a midfield as a group of names. The media made this mistake with Geelong, thinking that 'great names' like Selwood, Dangerfield, Ablett (who actually was great) and Duncan made for a 'great midfield'. They did it again this year with West Coast and their 'great names' like Naitanui, Gaff, Shuey, Yeo and Kelly. IMO adding Kelly, by all accounts a star player, only made their midfield cohesion worse. 2018 they were excellent to watch.

So it's not about star power or a highlights reel or individual honours for me, it's about working together as a group of midfielders. That's just my opinion. I have been in and around midfields most of my footy playing/coaching time and also grew up watching the Judds and Abletts and Blacks of footy rather than the Locketts, Dunstalls and Careys, so I very much enjoy watching good midfielders in action. I just think there aren't enough of them in the competition these days.

 

[caesar88]

So you lament our midfield and are mostly unimpressed by the best midfielders.

Right.

Because I don't think they're the best midfielders?

Martin and Neale the exceptions.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I don't agree they are worth more. There are certainly a lot more mids than key forwards in the competition, but I'd say the state of midfielders has become so bad that there are about the same number of truly elite mids as there are truly elite forwards. Once you take away the ineffective accumulators, the highlights packages who offer little else, and the hack-kickers, there aren't many left.

But it really depends on what you consider a great or elite mid to be. I can only speak from my personal preference but I think the best mids are the ones who work with the midfielders around them. The idea of a midfield as a group that works together often gets overshadowed by the idea of a midfield as a group of names. The media made this mistake with Geelong, thinking that 'great names' like Selwood, Dangerfield, Ablett (who actually was great) and Duncan made for a 'great midfield'. They did it again this year with West Coast and their 'great names' like Naitanui, Gaff, Shuey, Yeo and Kelly. IMO adding Kelly, by all accounts a star player, only made their midfield cohesion worse. 2018 they were excellent to watch.

So it's not about star power or a highlights reel or individual honours for me, it's about working together as a group of midfielders. That's just my opinion. I have been in and around midfields most of my footy playing/coaching time and also grew up watching the Judds and Abletts and Blacks of footy rather than the Locketts, Dunstalls and Careys, so I very much enjoy watching good midfielders in action. I just think there aren't enough of them in the competition these days.

What I’m reading here is that Danger, Duncan, Gaff, Shuey, Yeo & Kelly are fundamentally Craig Bird

Craig Bird

Age

36

Ht

180cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.3

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

.

 

[Millky95]

What I’m reading here is that Danger, Duncan, Gaff, Shuey, Yeo & Kelly are fundamentally Craig Bird

Craig Bird

Age

36

Ht

180cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.3

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

.

Think it is more champion team vs team of champions, you know?

Like who wins between 2020 Richmond and 2020 All Australian team (minus Richmond players obvs)?

 

[caesar88]

What I’m reading here is that Danger, Duncan, Gaff, Shuey, Yeo & Kelly are fundamentally Craig Bird

Craig Bird

Age

36

Ht

180cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.3

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

8.6

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.0

4star

.

More as Millky said above ^

 

[RUNVS]

True, at least his 1 yr in the WAFL helps speed that process

Agreed. If West Coast had a player in their reserves team kicking 2.5 goals a game then there is a good chance he would be getting a callup pretty quickly.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Because I don't think they're the best midfielders?

Martin and Neale the exceptions.

Ok, throw in Ablett.

Are there any other midfielders in the last decade that you're not "unimpressed by"?

 

[dosser]

To add a bit of trivia and speculation:

They say "they are a happy team at Hawthorn " (family club) claimed also by Essendon LOL! ,and at Collingwood they "side by side stick together" LOL!

But Swans make no secret of the objective is to select quality persons and have a tight knit get along group (OK sometimes that goes wrong)

Sturt and Norwood tend to be SANFL clubs that focus on the well educated private school lads. They often board (have been away from home)

Interestingly Malachy ... went to St Peters. The same school as Dylan Stephens

15

Dylan Stephens

Age

24

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

0.0

1star

D

10.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

3.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.7

4star

CL

0.0

1star

and the same school as CEO Tom Harley.

Maybe Beatson et al " Dylan ... is there anyone you know of that you think is a quality mature person with a big footy future upside in SA?"
Dylan: "Well there is a younger bloke I played with, that is really dedicated I think big upside, you should have a good look at Malachy Curruthers!"

Harley is in constant contact with scouts at St Peters!

So you think our recruitment staff get the players together and ask "do any of you know of anyone who is any good and might want a game?"

 

[V9x18]

If Will Phillips ends up becoming the next Nat Fyfe, Pat Dangerfield, Tom Mitchell or Dane Swan

Dane Swan

Age

41

Ht

185cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.9

5star

K

16.4

5star

HB

10.4

5star

M

5.9

5star

T

3.1

5star

CL

5.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

I can only imagine how disappointed North Melbourne will be

 

[caesar88]

Ok, throw in Ablett.

Are there any other midfielders in the last decade that you're not "unimpressed by"?

Ablett, Pendlebury, S. Mitchell, Prestia, Bontempelli (though I think he is inconsistent), Edwards, Cotchin, Selwood, JPK, Mundy, Boak, Kelly (GWS), Sidebottom, Shuey, Gaff, Coniglio, Macrae would be the best of the lot off the top of my head. (I'm sure I've missed a few.) But even then I would only say about half of those were/are elite.

 

[mikey_san]

W e have almost cured our forward line issues with one pick. Now work on getting the ball in there with some class

Stephens, Campbell, Blakey, Dawson, McInerney, Rowbottom - we've got it covered nicely I think.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

If Will Phillips ends up becoming the next Nat Fyfe, Pat Dangerfield, Tom Mitchell or Dane Swan

Dane Swan

Age

41

Ht

185cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.9

5star

K

16.4

5star

HB

10.4

5star

M

5.9

5star

T

3.1

5star

CL

5.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

I can only imagine how disappointed North Melbourne will be

And if Logan becomes as good as a Lynch, Nick Reiwoldt, Dixon...we have made the right call!

 

[BloodySwan]

Ablett, Pendlebury, S. Mitchell, Prestia, Bontempelli (though I think he is inconsistent), Edwards, Cotchin, Selwood, JPK, Mundy, Boak, Kelly (GWS), Sidebottom, Shuey, Gaff, Coniglio, Macrae would be the best of the lot off the top of my head. (I'm sure I've missed a few.) But even then I would only say about half of those were/are elite.

4 of the players you called out are in the top 10 for career Brownlow votes. You must admit a Brownlow is somewhat a good metric of a good midfielder?

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Stephens, Campbell, Blakey, Dawson, McInerney, Rowbottom - we've got it covered nicely I think.

Still need two genuine and I mean genuine mids next year, not forward/mids or flank/wingmen. Two of the mids you've named are wingers.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

4 of the players you called out are in the top 10 for career Brownlow votes. You must admit a Brownlow is somewhat a good metric of a good midfielder?

Hardly. Just favours a good side really. Apart from the joke of Woewodin winning when was the last terrible side that had a player winning the medal?

 

[BloodySwan]

Hardly. Just favours a good side really. Apart from the joke of Woewodin winning when was the last terrible side that had a player winning the medal?

2019 when Fyfe won it?
Maybe 2014 when Priddis won it?

I mean, you've got the best midfielder in your team so you're unlikely going to get the wooden spoon