List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals - Part 2 (The 2020 Draft)

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Good list..
Probably should add rookies to it

2015	rookie p52	Melican (24yo)	NSW	46	best 22
2015	international rookie	ORiordan (25yo)	Ireland	23	good depth
2017	rookie p34	Fox (27yo)	Tas	38	good depth
2017	rookie 28	Amartey (21)	Vic	1	potential
2017	rookie	Bell (22)	NSW	10	good depth
2018	rookie	Wicks (21)	NSW	7	Best22 / good depth
2018	pre-season draft	McLean (22)	Vic	10	good depth
2019	international rookie	OConnor (22)	Ireland	0	potential
2020	?	Sheather	NSW	0	?
2020	?	Curuthers	?	0	?

It takes more than 22 players to play out the season, so depth players are important. I reckon a good depth player is one who is cheap ($), loyal and can play their role
Theres a few on that list that could become more than just depth.
Add the two lists together and its a pretty good u25's team. Would be interesting to compare to other clubs, I reckon The Suns would win on paper, but the Swans would be way up there.

Which list would Paddy McCartin go on?

 

[rustycrate]

I can't believe some #### bumped this !

That was me. You can donate to my favourite charity.

 

[Del198236]

Which list would Paddy McCartin go on?

hopefully the rookie list after the mid season draft
then the senior list in 2022
then the premiership player list in 2023

 

[Kapers]

hopefully the rookie list after the mid season draft
then the senior list in 2022
then the premiership player list in 2021*

Fixed the last number for you

 

[momentbymoment]

Warner won't be within coo-ee of the first team if two of Hewett, JPK and Parker are fit. Even more so if Clarke keeps impressing and Campbell and Gulden are looking good.
May or may not amount to anything, IDK, but we won't find out this year IMO.

This comment didn’t age well.
Although to be fair, I also wrote off The Chad last year.

 

[rustycrate]

This comment didn’t age well.
Although to be fair, I also wrote off The Chad last year.

So did I. Egg on face.

 

[Del198236]

This comment didn’t age well.
Although to be fair, I also wrote off The Chad last year.

So did I. Egg on face.

Horse has always spoken very highly of Warner. That says a lot. Horse has always praised his competitiveness, His contested ball numbers in the u18s were really strong. Hes a pure inside mid. Beatson, Dalrymple and Horse recognised attributes in him that hopefully help him develop into a Very Good inside mid.
Last year he played 2 games out of position and didn't look good.
Worth recognising he was out of position and only a first year player playing his first games. Also worth remembering hes only a second year player, and to be very good inside may be expecting a little too much. Walsh (p1 2018) only started to move inside towards the end of his second year, Anderson (p2 2019) only started to move inside at the end of his 1st year after 15ish games. To play inside and compete with some of the games elite who are bigger, stronger, older, more experienced and therefore simply better is a tough gig.

Really enjoying watching the development of our midfield.
On the outside players like.. McInerney, Stephens, Blakey, Campbell.. all quick, good skills and excellent kicks and all can rotate inside
The inside seems a little more complex.. Mills, Warner, Florent, Rowbum, Errol. Theres a good mix of tenacity, competitiveness, toughness, speed, nous and skills. Players who may excel at clearances, contested ball, 30+ possessions, tackles etc..
Hard to expect too much from them this year as they're all (exc. Mills) 1st-3rd year players. Would be happy to see them all step up from last year.

 

[Neverwas]

Warner really impresses me. Hard at it, has pace, a good tank , attacking, quick thinking, excellent vision and awareness, penetrating kick and quick with handball either hand. Likely to link up well with the other mids both inside and outside. Good chance of playing round 1. He was a recruiting coup.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Are we doing enough to recruit and cultivate Indigenous talent at the club?

We have such a proud history with our Indigenous players being some of the greatest ever - Goodesy, Buddy, Micky O, Lewis Jetta was none too shabby.

And the club stood firm behind Goodesy when it really mattered.

But with the unfortunate departure of Elijah Taylor in disgrace, as far as I know we now only have Buddy (admittedly, the biggest name of the lot, but who may never get back on the paddock for any extended period ever again) and James Bell

32

James Bell

Age

26

Ht

183cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

G

0.5

3star

No current season stats available

D

7.0

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

2.5

3star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

G

0.5

3star

. The cupboard is looking a bit bare.

Any young Indigenous players coming through?

 

[Slingshot Footy]

Are we doing enough to recruit and cultivate Indigenous talent at the club?

We have such a proud history with our Indigenous players being some of the greatest ever - Goodesy, Buddy, Micky O, Lewis Jetta was none too shabby.

And the club stood firm behind Goodesy when it really mattered.

But with the unfortunate departure of Elijah Taylor in disgrace, as far as I know we now only have Buddy (admittedly, the biggest name of the lot, but who may never get back on the paddock for any extended period ever again) and James Bell. The cupboard is looking a bit bare.

Any young Indigenous players coming through?

I personally think this is a wider league issue rather than just any one club's dilemma. List recruiters are shrewder than ever and you would have to believe list managers are shying away from candidates that trigger alarm bells centring around professionalism and mental health, not to mention homesickness, more than ever. Unfair as it might be, there is still a perception that a lot of young Indigenous talent don't have the skills nor the guidance to navigate a professional career in the AFL system.

Unfortunately, in the Swans instance, their last experience with Elijah Taylor has them in a position where they would feel less inclined to take a gamble on ANY player with question marks surrounding their professionalism.

Is the solution another categorised rookie spot design to promote Indigenous pathways? Possibly.

Is it a priority of the AFL in a post-COVID collective bargaining agreement to implement such an idea? Probably not.

 

[caesar88]

I think it does a disservice to both indigenous and non-indigenous players if we draft based on meeting some kind unspoken need for diversity.

 

[Del198236]

I think it does a disservice to both indigenous and non-indigenous players if we draft based on meeting some kind unspoken need for diversity.

Spoken like a true blue middle class white male.
Your comments would be correct if there was a level playing field. Obviously there's not.
So the idea of of a rookie spot dedicated to indigenous players has merit, Other ideas like extra support, working groups, professional mentors etc etc etc also have merit .. Best ask the indigenous players (past and present) what support is needed or how best to support so as to level the playing field.

The game is better when watching the Goodes, Riolis, Jettas, Betts etc etc work their magic.. and not just better, but healthier also

 

[mtooler]

Warner really impresses me. Hard at it, has pace, a good tank , attacking, quick thinking, excellent vision and awareness, penetrating kick and quick with handball either hand. Likely to link up well with the other mids both inside and outside. Good chance of playing round 1. He was a recruiting coup.

So true, had all the hallmarks of top end talent if given the right role for the Swans from the get go. Reminded me a lot of a raw Tom Mitchell at the time. If he can just make it from contest to contest, extract and hammer the opposition in tackles we will be very fortunate we picked him up, another later gem as was Rowbottom. Theyve nailed the 2nd and 3rd rounders a few times now and Mccartin too.

 

[caesar88]

Spoken like a true blue middle class white male.
Your comments would be correct if there was a level playing field. Obviously there's not.
So the idea of of a rookie spot dedicated to indigenous players has merit, Other ideas like extra support, working groups, professional mentors etc etc etc also have merit .. Best ask the indigenous players (past and present) what support is needed or how best to support so as to level the playing field.

The game is better when watching the Goodes, Riolis, Jettas, Betts etc etc work their magic.. and not just better, but healthier also

Please don’t make generalisations about me.

I think the issue starts at junior and grassroots level. The amount of talented indigenous juniors I have seen not end up pursuing an AFL career is astounding. If you look at the draft pool available to recruiters by the U18s stage, the number of indigenous players there for the taking is drastically low, and even some of those that do remain are deemed not good enough. So I believe a lot of it is out of the AFL recruiters hands. There needs to be a greater level of guidance and support at a junior level to keep these indigenous kids involved and create a greater representation at draft time.

 

[Kapers]

Spoken like a true blue middle class white male.
Your comments would be correct if there was a level playing field. Obviously there's not.
So the idea of of a rookie spot dedicated to indigenous players has merit, Other ideas like extra support, working groups, professional mentors etc etc etc also have merit .. Best ask the indigenous players (past and present) what support is needed or how best to support so as to level the playing field.

The game is better when watching the Goodes, Riolis, Jettas, Betts etc etc work their magic.. and not just better, but healthier also

I by principle don't believe race quotas. While we'll intentioned, they raise a can of issues that shouldn't exist.

If you want to give indigenous kids more chances start at the lower levels. Give incentives for families and kids to get involved in teams. You already mentioned this, but slapping a rookie spot at the end of the line is like putting icing on a moldy cake. It would just increase the amount of indigenous kids afl clubs go through.

Also, making assertions about another's race and financial position is pretty low. Then using it to discredit another's opinions?
C88 has been one of the most supportive of the problems that indigenous people faced, and even addressed the difficulties that Taylor would of experienced that made the comparisons to Rowbottom unfair by Horse.

I don't think anyone on this board disagrees with your final statement, and I think all wish Taylor turned out better, since he definitely had the ability.

I don't mind the disagreement on policy, and I think conversation is healthy. Not so cowardly attacks at another's opinion.

 

[Slingshot Footy]

The AFL do have the 'KickStart' program that develops "football and life skills" for Indigenous boys and girls at U15s level but that hasn't translated to higher levels of Indigenous representation in the 7 years since its inception. I'm sure the Swans and other northern clubs would happily tie in further Indigenous pathways to their own academies if the AFL provided the appropriate funding.

 

[mikey_san]

This comment didn’t age well.
Although to be fair, I also wrote off The Chad last year.

LOL Hopefully it motivated him. (that's me hiding behind sunnies)

Though he hasn't been picked yet either. I thought we'd def have to wait for JPK to retire. Could easily see them pick Parker up forward and Warner in the middle now though. Hayward being the one to make way in that scenario.

 

[mikey_san]

Spoken like a true blue middle class white male.
Your comments would be correct if there was a level playing field. Obviously there's not.
So the idea of of a rookie spot dedicated to indigenous players has merit, Other ideas like extra support, working groups, professional mentors etc etc etc also have merit .. Best ask the indigenous players (past and present) what support is needed or how best to support so as to level the playing field.

The game is better when watching the Goodes, Riolis, Jettas, Betts etc etc work their magic.. and not just better, but healthier also

Your virtue has been well and truly signaled. Congratulations?

 

[mikey_san]

What does Stephens have to prove? He’s played 8 games!

He’s best 22 for mine

Well obviously he has to prove he's good enough for the team in 2021 when everyone's healthy. Nothing more than that.
The fact he's only played 8 games means he has plenty to prove - he's not a lock like Parker, Rampe etc
I think he's borderline best 22. Fighting for a spot. Exactly as it should be.

That's all I meant.

 

[Del198236]

C88 and Kapers
my comment was not having a dig at any individual. I'm also a middle class white male.
C88 - There isn't a level playing field.. and Kapers - that 'Can' does exist.
At least we're recognising there is a problem.. thats an improvement
There are some Very clever and Very capable past and present players who understand these issues sooo much better that we might. Best leave the solutions to them.
Can the AFL do anything? I dont know
Will the AFL do anything? I hope so because as a fan of footy, I love watching some of these guys play

ps. This is a terrible forum to discuss racism!

 

[mtooler]

C88 and Kapers
my comment was not having a dig at any individual. I'm also a middle class white male.
C88 - There isn't a level playing field.. and Kapers - that 'Can' does exist.
At least we're recognising there is a problem.. thats an improvement
There are some Very clever and Very capable past and present players who understand these issues sooo much better that we might. Best leave the solutions to them.
Can the AFL do anything? I dont know
Will the AFL do anything? I hope so because as a fan of footy, I love watching some of these guys play

ps. This is a terrible forum to discuss racism!

And the fallacy of critical race theory.

 

[swansfan51]

3.3% of the population is indigenous. 4.6% of our list is indigenous. Where's the evidence that indigenous players are underepresented at the Sydney Swans? Its completely untrue and it diminishes the work of the club and takes focus away from the great players we have.

 

[mtooler]

Ed Richards

20

Ed Richards

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.4

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

11.3

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

5.3

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.5

3star

CL

1.1

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

9.8

4star

HB

4.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.2

2star

-could be our Hayward replacement.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Are we doing enough to recruit and cultivate Indigenous talent at the club?

We have such a proud history with our Indigenous players being some of the greatest ever - Goodesy, Buddy, Micky O, Lewis Jetta was none too shabby.

And the club stood firm behind Goodesy when it really mattered.

But with the unfortunate departure of Elijah Taylor in disgrace, as far as I know we now only have Buddy (admittedly, the biggest name of the lot, but who may never get back on the paddock for any extended period ever again) and James Bell. The cupboard is looking a bit bare.

Any young Indigenous players coming through?

Sad that we won't have E Taylor front and square for Mcdonald.

What's interesting is what will our focus be on recruiting for 2022? Everyone has been so focused on bringing in mids etc the past couple of years which we now have. I feel like what we really need now are silky small forwards. And the indigenous boys are by far the best at that. If anything i feel like it's a must have for a premiership recipe. When was the last time a team won a premiership without a prolific impactful indigenous forward half player? Other than the dogs I can't think of any.

 

[RUNVS]

Sad that we won't have E Taylor front and square for Mcdonald.

What's interesting is what will our focus be on recruiting for 2022? Everyone has been so focused on bringing in mids etc the past couple of years which we now have. I feel like what we really need now are silky small forwards. And the indigenous boys are by far the best at that. If anything i feel like it's a must have for a premiership recipe. When was the last time a team won a premiership without a prolific impactful indigenous forward half player? Other than the dogs I can't think of any.

I think we are okay with small forwards. I mean obviously having Taylor there would have been an advantage but we have Papley, Gulden, Wicks and Ronke who can all do it with varying degrees of ability.