List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

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dazedjosh

Team Captain
Aug 13, 2020
476
703
AFL Club
Sydney
Iget where you are coming from. Buddy salary 1.5m.
What does Buddy's salary have to do with whether or not we have cap space? The cap is roughly 12 million.
In the last 2 years we've had outs like McVeigh, Jack, Hannebery, Rohan, Grundy, Smith, Jones, and Tippet came off the books in 2018.
Our ins have been draftees and players like Sam Gray, Lewis Taylor, and Kaiden Brand. We would have saved a significant amount of cap space as a result of those moves. Saying something like "Buddy salary 1.5m." is a significant oversimplification of our list and our salary status and doesn't seem to actually contribute to the discussion in any fashion. We have known about Buddy's salary for a while, it's part of the reason why our crop of kids are signed up until 2022/2023 to free up that cash for re-signing them when we have that extra cap space. We would have been banking the excess cap space for the last yea or two.

Seriously, what point are you actually trying to convey with that statement?
 

Kapers

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2019
1,133
1,824
AFL Club
Sydney
I'm shocked by the contract talk around Saad, surely 600k is under for him.
Don't think we have a chance, but if I was Richmond or a top Melbourne team I would be very interested.
 

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Grand Uncle Horace

Brownlow Medallist
May 24, 2017
20,703
23,478
Old South Grandstand
AFL Club
Sydney
Let me say if Dalrymple was 'furloughed'. the Club needs a review. I do not give a sh*t about the Covid. He should have been among the last handful placed on 'gardening leave'.

Speaking of 'gardening' WTF was Charlie Corporate not sent back to his law firm or the Corporate in Harley take a 50% cut in his salary?
 

caesar88

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 26, 2016
19,569
23,262
AFL Club
Sydney
What I'm saying is that if we want to trade hard and get some good talent in we will probably split 4. Maybe get a few late first rounds and trade using those.
Just can't see a scenario where we manage to trade in any decent targets AND get pick 4 Campbell and Gulden.
Maybe we trade out a lot of our picks grab Campbell and say we ain't trying for Gulden.
I think we will prioritise Gulden quite a bit.
Yeah I agree, hence my point that splitting pick 4 achieves nothing if there aren't any trades done with the picks we get from it. We'd want to be really astute with our trade targets and confident we will land them if we're going to split pick 4 for them.

(If these targets even exist...)
 

HighReeve

Formerly 'Cheer Red Blood'
Sep 27, 2003
3,506
473
the north. (/melb)
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Brotherhood Without Banners
That's a fair point actually. They didn't have to give up a lot.

But they still misjudged their list. It was full of average players and kids who hadn't come on, but they loaded up on recruits. If you don't have that foundation of talent on the list, no amount of traded in players will be able to elevate you into contention.

Richmond and Brisbane are two recent examples of clubs who had the existing talent on their lists, and so were better able to capitalise on their big recruits.
Scott was in denial, but again, north didnt "load up" but maybe stubborn. Finlayson was interested a couple years back for a throwaway 4th or so and they passed. Bulldogs had strong interest in Harper I think it was, for a good pick, but they held on and then de-listed.

Not a lot for Polec, and he had/has five years of good footy. Didnt seem a good fit tho, and with others already in the 28y/o+ range it meant they had a relatively short amount of time in which to capitalise.

Foundation is arbitrary. Brisbane going for Neale/Cameron/Ah Chee/Adams is better than the hit they'd have got from the corresponding draft picks.
 

SGBeach

Club Legend
Jul 19, 2019
1,147
2,132
AFL Club
Sydney
P4 + Campbell + Gulden seems obvious to me (Im no list manager though) 3 very good to Gun players in 1 draft - that's hard to do
The other obvious thing is the holes in our list.. ie Ruck, inside and forward.
We've got good but young mids so the hole there is filling with time. and if Heeney and Buddy and Daniher?? play next year, our forward group is pretty strong

If theres the right player to fill any of these holes in this trade period, why not use our future picks to grab him? Better to fill the hole this year than next. Thats called fast tracking

Id be totally happy with..
p4 + Campbell + Gulden
Daniher - for free
the right mid - future 1st
the right ruck - future 2nd

Salary can be shuffled around to a degree
we get the benefit of a future 1st and 2nd one year early
 

Bear31

Team Captain
Feb 15, 2020
365
394
AFL Club
Sydney
What does Buddy's salary have to do with whether or not we have cap space? The cap is roughly 12 million.
In the last 2 years we've had outs like McVeigh, Jack, Hannebery, Rohan, Grundy, Smith, Jones, and Tippet came off the books in 2018.
Our ins have been draftees and players like Sam Gray, Lewis Taylor, and Kaiden Brand. We would have saved a significant amount of cap space as a result of those moves. Saying something like "Buddy salary 1.5m." is a significant oversimplification of our list and our salary status and doesn't seem to actually contribute to the discussion in any fashion. We have known about Buddy's salary for a while, it's part of the reason why our crop of kids are signed up until 2022/2023 to free up that cash for re-signing them when we have that extra cap space. We would have been banking the excess cap space for the last yea or two.

Seriously, what point are you actually trying to convey with that statement?
Just that in this draft we are likely to just take kids in the draft. We have no room to trade in guys because all of our currency is in the draft. We have no guns to trade away. we did that last year. Also at this stage of our list we dont need to trade in gun players as we dont have all the cards in place. We need a ruck. We need a KPF. We need more gun mids. this draft may solve some of those problems. When the cars are more in place and Buddys salary is reduced we have more flexibility to trade for players. Thats my point
 

SGBeach

Club Legend
Jul 19, 2019
1,147
2,132
AFL Club
Sydney
Irresponsible to be in a position to lose someone of dalrymple quality.

Wtf are we doing
All this talk of Dalrymple.. Im assuming its based in that article posted about him teaching??
All that article says is that he was teaching during the lockdown. What else does a list manager do? theres no under age footy being played, No list managers were allowed to interview potential draftees, Theres no money to pay staff.
Who knows, he may have been on job keeper, the Swans may have been paying him a reduced salary and he may have been teaching Maths to some of the potential draftees??
Does it say anywhere that we've sacked him?
 

TheMase

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 20, 2001
19,534
17,143
Sydney
AFL Club
Sydney
Other Teams
Sydney Swans
Is Dalrymple being stood down really that controversial? Do we know the outcome of individuals at other clubs in his position?

Given that his job resolved around elite junior football, largely of which has not been played this year, is it really that surprising? Particularly given he also has a fallback profession?

I personally don’t think there is much to read into it at all.
 

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Bear31

Team Captain
Feb 15, 2020
365
394
AFL Club
Sydney
Irresponsible to be in a position to lose someone of dalrymple quality.

Wtf are we doing
what happened?
Irresponsible to be in a position to lose someone of dalrymple quality.

Wtf are we doing
Is Dalrymple being stood down really that controversial? Do we know the outcome of individuals at other clubs in his position?

Given that his job resolved around elite junior football, largely of which has not been played this year, is it really that surprising? Particularly given he also has a fallback profession?

I personally don’t think there is much to read into it at all.
my heart skipped a beat when i first read it
 

DobmusEdge

Senior List
Jun 21, 2019
256
451
AFL Club
Sydney
What I'm saying is that if we want to trade hard and get some good talent in we will probably split 4. Maybe get a few late first rounds and trade using those.
Just can't see a scenario where we manage to trade in any decent targets AND get pick 4 Campbell and Gulden.
Maybe we trade out a lot of our picks grab Campbell and say we ain't trying for Gulden.
I think we will prioritise Gulden quite a bit.
“Probably spilt 4”. WTF? There is zero chance of splitting 4. Let’s revisit this post trade period/draft
 

DobmusEdge

Senior List
Jun 21, 2019
256
451
AFL Club
Sydney
Let me say if Dalrymple was 'furloughed'. the Club needs a review. I do not give a sh*t about the Covid. He should have been among the last handful placed on 'gardening leave'.

Speaking of 'gardening' WTF was Charlie Corporate not sent back to his law firm or the Corporate in Harley take a 50% cut in his salary?
You do seem the type that does not give a sh*t about the Covid
 

SeanM

Team Captain
Oct 17, 2016
416
838
AFL Club
Sydney
With the reduction in list spaces I feel the AFL need to relax the rules around retirements/delistings. I think clubs need to have the flexibility to delist players with 1+ years left on their contracts and have the remaining payout within the salary cap but without a list spot taken up.
Kennedy and Naismith being the 2 examples for us. Now I am not saying we should try and retire Kennedy as I think he still has value leading the young players but Naismith just isn't going to come good, he should get paid out the remainder of his contract but clubs without many ooc players shouldnt be punished for an unforeseeable pandemic.
Ideally the AFL would gradually stagger any list cuts over a few years rather than do one big sudden cut. It would give clubs a chance for to make more considered list decisions.
 

dazedjosh

Team Captain
Aug 13, 2020
476
703
AFL Club
Sydney
Just that in this draft we are likely to just take kids in the draft. We have no room to trade in guys because all of our currency is in the draft. We have no guns to trade away. we did that last year. Also at this stage of our list we dont need to trade in gun players as we dont have all the cards in place. We need a ruck. We need a KPF. We need more gun mids. this draft may solve some of those problems. When the cars are more in place and Buddys salary is reduced we have more flexibility to trade for players. Thats my point
I've said multiple times that we should be targeting big FA in the big class of 2022, I never said anything about this year, in fact I've said a couple of times that as good as Daniher is I don't think he fits our list profile at this point.
On top of that I've advocated throughout this thread that we should be trading back from Pick 4 to deal with other team needs by targeting players in positions of need like a big bodied mid and a ruck in the 20-23 age range.
Furthermore, Franklin's salary still has nothing to do with it. We're running at close to 95% of the cap and have done for the last 2 years, meaning we can run equally to 105% of the cap for the next 2 years if we want to, then the Buddy money comes out of the cap giving us even more flexibility. If we did want to frontend a contract this year or next, we have the cap space.
It seems like you think I'm somebody else making other points.
 

SGBeach

Club Legend
Jul 19, 2019
1,147
2,132
AFL Club
Sydney
I dont think we have any intention of trading for Daniher he comes through the PSD or he doesnt come at all.
He's a free agent.. no need to trade
but if Dodo matches our bid (Im thinking this is what you're talking about), then I hope we have no intention, and if Daniher really wants to come then he can via the PSD
 

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