List Mgmt. 2020 Draft and Trade Hypotheticals

[robbieando]

Is Dalrymple being stood down really that controversial? Do we know the outcome of individuals at other clubs in his position?

Given that his job resolved around elite junior football, largely of which has not been played this year, is it really that surprising? Particularly given he also has a fallback profession?

I personally don’t think there is much to read into it at all.

Dalrymple was stood down, along with 80% of the AFL football department staff across the 18 clubs while the league was shutdown. This shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.

AFL, clubs stand down almost entire workforce on horrendous day for football

Up to 80 per cent of staff at the AFL and clubs have been stood down without pay as the league imposes austerity measures.

www.theage.com.au

Nearly the entire AFL and club workforce were stood down without pay as the league imposed savage austerity measures in a desperate effort to ensure the competition survives the coronavirus shutdown.

Up to 80 per cent of employees across the industry - assistant coaches, support staff, recruiters, list managers, executives, administration staff, membership, marketing and media staff - are without work after the AFL effectively took over the clubs and mandated that up to 80 per cent of employees be put on unpaid leave.

The AFL has mandated that clubs cut back to a bare minimum, which would see about five staff members remain within each football department. Typically that would be a coach, head of football, doctor, fitness or conditioning coach and a welfare officer. However, some clubs will allow the additional staff to take paid leave, where it has been accrued.

Clubs during the shutdown could only have 5 members of staff working in their Football departments and Dalrymple as a recruiter a) didn't fill any of those positions and b) didn't have any actual work to do.

The fact he had another job to fall back on is something he was lucky to have when there was no pay available, he wasn't the only person in the League to do similar. Now that the junior pathways have restarted he has work he can undertake and therefore a job that pays him.

But this has only popped up because Essendon fans on an internet forum are throwing his name around as a replacement to a person they want sacked. No media links to Essendon or anything.

But lets not make this out to be an isolated case. It wasn't and in the coming weeks (and we have seen already) we will see very good people forced to leave the AFL industry due to the AFL Football Department Soft Cap being cut. Clubs need to cut nearly $3million of spending out of their Football Departments, we are going to lose brilliant people throughout the game because they won't be paid enough to want to stay in the Industry.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Dalrymple was stood down, along with 80% of the AFL football department staff across the 18 clubs while the league was shutdown. This shouldn't come as a shock to anyone.

AFL, clubs stand down almost entire workforce on horrendous day for football

Up to 80 per cent of staff at the AFL and clubs have been stood down without pay as the league imposes austerity measures.

www.theage.com.au

Clubs during the shutdown could only have 5 members of staff working in their Football departments and Dalrymple as a recruiter a) didn't fill any of those positions and b) didn't have any actual work to do.

The fact he had another job to fall back on is something he was lucky to have when there was no pay available, he wasn't the only person in the League to do similar. Now that the junior pathways have restarted he has work he can undertake and therefore a job that pays him.

But this has only popped up because Essendon fans on an internet forum are throwing his name around as a replacement to a person they want sacked. No media links to Essendon or anything.

But lets not make this out to be an isolated case. It wasn't and in the coming weeks (and we have seen already) we will see very good people forced to leave the AFL industry due to the AFL Football Department Soft Cap being cut. Clubs need to cut nearly $3million of spending out of their Football Departments, we are going to lose brilliant people throughout the game because they won't be paid enough to want to stay in the Industry.

Yer but i would think given our situation of being bottom 4 you would think Dalrymple would be priority to keep at the club right?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I’m not fully getting this need for massive cuts. I understand there’s been less games etc but the AFL have had a captive audience 5 nights per week.

Well done to them for getting through. But they’ve got through. They’ve managed to continue to sell their product.

 

[Millky95]

I’m not fully getting this need for massive cuts. I understand there’s been less games etc but the AFL have had a captive audience 5 nights per week.

Well done to them for getting through. But they’ve got through. They’ve managed to continue to sell their product.

But the cost of having players, coaches and families in hotels/resorts for up to a month at a time adds up

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

But the cost of having players, coaches and families in hotels/resorts for up to a month at a time adds up

Can’t Richmond pay their own costs?

 

[Millky95]

Can’t Richmond pay their own costs?

Your employer requires you to travel interstate for work. You make a wage. Can't you afford it?

No. Employer pays. In this case, it's the AFL

 

[caesar88]

It won’t happen

Maybe so, but I don't think it's that crazy to suggest it as an option.

 

[caesar88]

This might sound a bit "back in my day" of me, but I tend to think footy could do with a bit of simplifying. Not to say it's not pretty devastating that so many have lost their jobs, but at the end of the day footy will still be footy if a club's got players to play the game, a coach to coach the players, and a few big-wigs to keep the club afloat financially. The data analysts, sport scientists, multiple recruiters, media staff etc are just nice extras to have, but I am not convinced they've made the game or the footballers themselves better in any way.

 

[wills2g]

If Daniher comes via PSD, what pick will it take?

Will it affect us drafting a gun at p4/campbell and maybe gulden?

 

[dazedjosh]

If Daniher comes via PSD, what pick will it take?

Our preseason draft pick, that's exactly what the preseason draft is

EDIT - And no, the preseason draft has no bearing on the national draft or the rookie draft. Basically, the preseason draft is the vehicle for players to find new clubs when they're out of contract and their current team isn't willing to trade them for whatever reason. To be honest, it's a bit of a relic from before trading and free agency.

Short version - If an out of contract player wants to leave their club, they can nominate for the preseason draft and specify their desired contract value, thereby limiting the teams that can potentially pick them up. There is no trading of picks in the PSD or anything like that, you just pick in the same national draft order. Kurt Tippet made it to the Swans this way. Jack Martin last year to the Blues. Because we are going to finish below the Bombers, we could in theory say to them that if they don't accept the compo pick that they receive from our FA offer (assuming Daniher accepts that offer and not Geelong or Brisbane) then we will just tell him to go to the PSD and they won't get any compo at all. However, Adelaide, Hawthorn, North Melbourne will all pick before us, so they would need to pass on him, so it is a bit risky. We probably can't offer him a contract so large that it would prevent them from being able to sign him if they did draft him. So it is a risk, it's unlikely they would draft him via the PSD, but they might.

Hope that helps

 

[robbieando]

Yer but i would think given our situation of being bottom 4 you would think Dalrymple would be priority to keep at the club right?

No one has suggested that he isn't a priority of the club. Again this is only a topic because Essendon fans on the internet want to sack Dodoro and are throwing around names without Essendon even looking like sacking Dodoro. Bit like us throwing out names to replace Horse, its meaningless.

People are mixing up him being stood down a period of time, with a desire to get rid of him. That hasn't even been shown to be the case at any stage by the club. Dalrymple along with 80% of football department staff around the League were stood down without pay during the League shutdown between mid March and late May. That was a League decision to save costs and make sure clubs didn't gain an advantage over each other while the League was shut down.

The League itself mandated the 5 positions that had to be filled. Recruiting wasn't one of them.

He is now back working for us again and should be with us for as long as he wants. I just don't see why this is an issue.

 

[Bear31]

I've said multiple times that we should be targeting big FA in the big class of 2022, I never said anything about this year, in fact I've said a couple of times that as good as Daniher is I don't think he fits our list profile at this point.
On top of that I've advocated throughout this thread that we should be trading back from Pick 4 to deal with other team needs by targeting players in positions of need like a big bodied mid and a ruck in the 20-23 age range.
Furthermore, Franklin's salary still has nothing to do with it. We're running at close to 95% of the cap and have done for the last 2 years, meaning we can run equally to 105% of the cap for the next 2 years if we want to, then the Buddy money comes out of the cap giving us even more flexibility. If we did want to frontend a contract this year or next, we have the cap space.
It seems like you think I'm somebody else making other points.

I don.t think you are somebody else. what makes you think that

 

[mikey_san]

Bigfooty took something and ran with it like Ollie Florent with mikey san's milk

The reverse milkman. He never delivers.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

He's a free agent.. no need to trade
but if Dodo matches our bid (Im thinking this is what you're talking about), then I hope we have no intention, and if Daniher really wants to come then he can via the PSD

Yer sorry thats what i meant Essendon have said they will match any bid.

 

[caesar88]

The reverse milkman. He never delivers.

Well played amigo.

 

[Kapers]

No split. While we are down we take the best available. When do we ever get top 5

“Probably spilt 4”. WTF? There is zero chance of splitting 4. Let’s revisit this post trade period/draft

Can either of you please reread my post, because both of you obviously skimmed and assumed I said something I didn't.

I didnt say we SHOULD split, I said if we want to trade in a player then we should PROBABLY split pick 4. Otherwise if we go to the draft I DONT THINK WE SHOULD SPLIT.

I didnt even give an opinion on what we should do, just what the options look like.

I don't care if people disagree with me, but it's painfully annoying when I get replies of people not even bothering to read my post.

 

[The King!]

Yer sorry thats what i meant Essendon have said they will match any bid.

why the * didnt essendon use covid to sack dorodo

 

[Kapers]

Also anyone who thinks that splitting picks or trading out top pick is a horrible idea really needs to take a look at our list along with Melbourne and Carltons history.
Im not sure what the right thing to do is, but I can sure as hell say if we keep bringing in 18 year olds and expect them to take us to premiership glory you need check your expectations.

We are all bemoaning Blakeys lack of consistency, and that is a bonafide top 10 pick in one of the strongest recent drafts.

We need experienced players to settle the kids and help develop them.

 

[Kapers]

why the fu** didnt essendon use covid to sack dorodo

He asked for at least 2 first rounders and a player as a compo package.

 

[BloodySwan]

If we split pick 4 do we get 2x pick2 or 4x pick16?

 

[Jawdon Dorson]

No one has suggested that he isn't a priority of the club. Again this is only a topic because Essendon fans on the internet want to sack Dodoro and are throwing around names without Essendon even looking like sacking Dodoro. Bit like us throwing out names to replace Horse, its meaningless.

People are mixing up him being stood down a period of time, with a desire to get rid of him. That hasn't even been shown to be the case at any stage by the club. Dalrymple along with 80% of football department staff around the League were stood down without pay during the League shutdown between mid March and late May. That was a League decision to save costs and make sure clubs didn't gain an advantage over each other while the League was shut down.

The League itself mandated the 5 positions that had to be filled. Recruiting wasn't one of them.

He is now back working for us again and should be with us for as long as he wants. I just don't see why this is an issue.

You speak way too much sense to be commenting on this forum

 

[caesar88]

If we split pick 4 do we get 2x pick2 or 4x pick18?

 

[Bandicoot]

Also anyone who thinks that splitting picks or trading out top pick is a horrible idea really needs to take a look at our list along with Melbourne and Carltons history.
Im not sure what the right thing to do is, but I can sure as hell say if we keep bringing in 18 year olds and expect them to take us to premiership glory you need check your expectations.

We are all bemoaning Blakeys lack of consistency, and that is a bonafide top 10 pick in one of the strongest recent drafts.

We need experienced players to settle the kids and help develop them.

I agree with your theory but our list is not yet ready for the free agency raids with experienced players. I feel 2022 is the year we will start making inroads and be around the top 8. That is when I would be going totally in the trade, free agency window. This year is about getting 2-3 very good kids in who by the end of 2022 will have played 30-40 games and are ready to become fair dinkum AFL players. This could well be Phillips, Campbell and Gulden. 2021 should be a mixture but with trading the priority in getting what we truly need - a ruckman first of all. Many people have stated that we need a KPF and that may be so but what's the point in getting one who is failing with his current club? Clubs who have good KPFs don't tend to give them away too easily. It would probably need to be via free agency. I feel our midfield will be sufficient in 2023 with the three we hope to bring in this year and our current crop.

 

[Kapers]

I agree with your theory but our list is not yet ready for the free agency raids with experienced players. I feel 2022 is the year we will start making inroads and be around the top 8. That is when I would be going totally in the trade, free agency window. This year is about getting 2-3 very good kids in who by the end of 2022 will have played 30-40 games and are ready to become fair dinkum AFL players. This could well be Phillips, Campbell and Gulden. 2021 should be a mixture but with trading the priority in getting what we truly need - a ruckman first of all. Many people have stated that we need a KPF and that may be so but what's the point in getting one who is failing with his current club? Clubs who have good KPFs don't tend to give them away too easily. It would probably need to be via free agency. I feel our midfield will be sufficient in 2023 with the three we hope to bring in this year and our current crop.

I feel like your assuming that the players will be fine with staying together and will 100% improve over the next 2 year.
I don't know what's right, but with a playing group as young as our it comes with a lot of risks. We can see with Hayward, Blakey, Florent, and even Dawson, that they will be down and up.

Its not only to get consistent performances, don't downplay what can be learnt from a gun.
It would be unwise to believe that the only benefit Hodge had to the Brisbane Lions was on field. He gave them leadership, consistency, hunger, and someone to learn from.

If we got a Macrae (not saying we can or should) he would not only bolster our midfield, but he could guide and help Rowbottom, Florent, Hewitt, Stephens, Warner, Clarke, and so on.
I'm not saying Parker and JPK to lead, I just question their ability to teach.
Most of what they do is pure grunt and willing yourself for the battle, and while that is good, you also need the nuances of the game to be taught to you.

 

[robbieando]

We have gone to the draft repeatedly since 2014 and built a young core that now more than ever is lacking experience in the 24 to 28 year age bracket to lead the way (but we will start to see the first of this group to enter this bracket from next year). We have traded in only four players in that time (Sinclair, Clarke, Thurlow and Lewis Taylor at the cost of Lewis Jetta, Pick 61, Pick 70 and Pick 48 respectively) to limited success. To wait two more years to address our key weaknesses and age imbalance for the sake of "hitting the draft" is going to waste the work that has already been done if not addressed correctly as we can't go two years without improving our ruck position nor planning for the future in the forward line.

That being said this year with list sizes likely to be cut and our list already nearly full and having the option to select two academy players. I don't see us using picks in the late rounds again to target players at other clubs and that would logically leave Pick 4 (which more than likely would be pick 6 come draft night once bids on draft night for other academy players and free agency compensation picks are factored in) as an option to split for the right player/s.

I just don't think those players are out there in this current market.