List Mgmt. 2020 Draft (December 9) discussion thread

[dlanod]

Our currently owned picks:

24 - Blake Coleman
43 - Harry Sharp
48 - Henry Smith

Our currently owned 2021 picks:

1st (MEL), 1st (BRI), 3rd (WCE), 3rd (BRI), 4th (MEL), 4th (COL), 5th (BRI)

 

[Dalions]

Interesting I have seen Carter Michael get a few mentions in the media. I am starting to think he might be a chance to get picked up either by us or someone else.

Maybe he has garnered a little interest from other clubs, with them probably having more access to games up here this year.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Interesting I have seen Carter Michael get a few mentions in the media. I am starting to think he might be a chance to get picked up either by us or someone else.

If we want both a ruck and an outside mid, it makes sense to use 25 on a ruck and match Michael if the list space is there.

Thing is, I don't know whether it's worth using a list space on a developing ruck when it takes them 5-6 years to become a starting calibre player. And they may not be that good at the end of that period, like Archie Smith

44

Archie Smith

Age

30

Ht

203cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.5

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

6.9

4star

CL

2.1

4star

HO

14.4

5star

D

4.7

1star

K

1.7

1star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

2.0

4star

HO

11.3

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

3.4

2star

HB

9.0

5star

CL

3.0

5star

HO

17.8

5star

. Perhaps we're better off just signing the best mature ruck in the SANFL or WAFL?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I don’t get the Jack Carroll love here.

Was it just because someone mentioned he moves somewhat similar to McCluggage?

No, it's because he can play three different positions and has most of the skills and abilities you'd want from players in those positions. Great disposal, smart decision-maker, can win his own ball and has speed and acceleration. He may not have the strength yet to be an inside bull, but that's something that can be improved, and he's a December birth so that's not unexpected.

Carroll is not in McCluggage’s class, not even close. Otherwise he’d be rated a top 5 prospect.

Never said he was. His top-end skills may not be as high as Hugh's but he has the broad range of skills to become a similar player on the opposite wing.

We haven’t seen any potential bolters or late improvers from Vic, let alone see if some of the likely types were able to take that next step playing in a preferred position now that they were out of the shadows of the 2019 draft class.

Correct. But we can only go on what we've seen, or else it's a total dart throw. I certainly like what I've seen from Carroll.

The club have recognised your point anyway, and I think this is a big reason they've traded into 2021 instead. Some of those bolters will surely not get drafted and will get their year of improvement in time for 2021.

Isiah Winder I can understand. He’s a jumping jack highlight real. But where does he play at AFL level?

HBF or HFF, let him use that speed and agility.

 

[Quigley]

I am not seeing a need for wingers personally. McCluggage is one of the best going around and Bailey really came on this year playing a really nicely balanced offensive and defensive game. Those two should be our starting wingers for years to come.

Robbo plays some time there atm and the one who I think should be developed into spending more time there is Coleman. He is good defensively and his delivery into forward 50 is as good as anyone. Giving him time on the wing can only help the team. I would also move Zorko outside more for the next couple of years and I am expecting him to get more time on the wing or flank.

That is without even considering the young blokes we didn't get to see this year.

 

[Pns_blister]

He’s not even spoken about as a top 30 prospect amongst draft watchers.

Hugh probably wasn't considered top 30 going into his top age year either, definitely not top 3. Had a breakout year.

 

[JasRulz63]

I am not seeing a need for wingers personally. McCluggage is one of the best going around and Bailey really came on this year playing a really nicely balanced offensive and defensive game. Those two should be our starting wingers for years to come.

Robbo plays some time there atm and the one who I think should be developed into spending more time there is Coleman. He is good defensively and his delivery into forward 50 is as good as anyone. Giving him time on the wing can only help the team. I would also move Zorko outside more for the next couple of years and I am expecting him to get more time on the wing or flank.

That is without even considering the young blokes we didn't get to see this year.

What are your thoughts on Starcevich's ability to play on the wing? He seems like he has the athletic ability to do so, but I wonder if we'd be losing out on his defensive ability playing further up the ground.

I can imagine the eyes light up for our forwards with Coleman and McCluggage delivering the ball inside 50 playing on the wings.

 

[Quigley]

What are your thoughts on Starcevich's ability to play on the wing? He seems like he has the athletic ability to do so, but I wonder if we'd be losing out on his defensive ability playing further up the ground.

I can imagine the eyes light up for our forwards with Coleman and McCluggage delivering the ball inside 50 playing on the wings.

I think he could play up on the wing I just don't think he would be as effective there as at half back. He is strong defensively and provides the bigger body that we need back there. On this wing this is required less, his disposal is only average, he does not find space that easily and I am not sold on his ability to win clearances when onball. Overall I think he could end up a decent winger but has a much higher ceiling at half back and that is where I would prefer to leave him.

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

Interesting I have seen Carter Michael get a few mentions in the media. I am starting to think he might be a chance to get picked up either by us or someone else.

Including in the AFL.com article about the draft changes

 

[spotthedog1]

Yeah thanks dlanod.

I’m not suggesting we should recruit anyone because they are Indigenous. I’m just saying if we were too it’d be fantastic because of the work they do in the community using their profile as AFL players.

Answers my question perfectly. Thanks.

 

[briztoon]

Xavier Maher sounds a likely type of we don't draft a ruckman.

The young stars your club should consider taking with their first AFL draft pick

The inside word on who every club will consider taking with their first AFL draft pick

bit.ly

Yeah, he’s one of a number of prospects I’d be happy with.

I know one of the AFL draft central crew penciled him as his smokey to climb up in to the first round, had this year gone ahead.

Another two kids that might be in the frame are Jake Bowey and Fraser Rosman.

Bowey is the same size as Zorko, with a similar game, but his testing results are all better than what Zorko’s were. And he’s considered a very good kick as well.

Rosman is a tall 194cm wing, booming left foot kick, and a speed and endurance machine. Ran 2.9sec for 20m and 5:52 for the 2km time trial.

He’s another who barely played for Sandringham last year, but who stood out and impressed people in the preseason Sandringham v Oakleigh game.

 

[briztoon]

If we want both a ruck and an outside mid, it makes sense to use 25 on a ruck and match Michael if the list space is there.

Thing is, I don't know whether it's worth using a list space on a developing ruck when it takes them 5-6 years to become a starting calibre player. And they may not be that good at the end of that period, like Archie Smith

44

Archie Smith

Age

30

Ht

203cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.5

2star

K

2.6

1star

HB

6.9

4star

CL

2.1

4star

HO

14.4

5star

D

4.7

1star

K

1.7

1star

HB

3.0

2star

CL

2.0

4star

HO

11.3

5star

D

12.4

4star

K

3.4

2star

HB

9.0

5star

CL

3.0

5star

HO

17.8

5star

. Perhaps we're better off just signing the best mature ruck in the SANFL or WAFL?

The way I view our list long term, in terms of ruck depth is.

Archie still probably delisted at the end of 2021.

Fullarton looks like he might eventually push McStay out of the team. I don’t view Fullarton as a ruck prospect, but as a KPF who can chop out in the ruck.

I’m still to be convinced by Ballenden, and still question if he makes it long term.

With few deficiencies in other areas, I’d be keen on drafting a young ruck this year, with the view that he’s our main back up from season 2022 and onwards.

 

[SL16]

List sizes officially 44

"The minimum list size for each club will be 37, which can be made up by as little as 36 senior listed players and one rookie.


To reach 44, clubs can carry 36-38 senior listed players, four-to-six Category A rookies and two Category B rookies."

 

[briztoon]

Back to looking for endurance beasts.
Fraser Rosman probably just rose up quite a few teams draft boards.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/524804

 

[Johnny Bananas]

With few deficiencies in other areas, I’d be keen on drafting a young ruck this year, with the view that he’s our main back up from season 2022 and onwards.

This is exactly what I'm preaching caution on. Rucks are often not particularly useful to the team until they've hit their physical prime, allowing them to match it with the dominant rucks of the competition. Just look at the struggles Tim English had this season, the Bulldogs had to go get Stef to help him out. English isn't a spud, he's incredibly talented, but he got outbodied this season, and the same will happen if we have to rely on a 20 year old in 2022.

 

[briztoon]

This is exactly what I'm preaching caution on. Rucks are often not particularly useful to the team until they've hit their physical prime, allowing them to match it with the dominant rucks of the competition. Just look at the struggles Tim English had this season, the Bulldogs had to go get Stef to help him out. English isn't a spud, he's incredibly talented, but he got outbodied this season, and the same will happen if we have to rely on a 20 year old in 2022.

But we wouldn’t be playing him in the first team, unless Oscar was injured, and after Archie leaves, there’s no one on the list currently who could play against the dominant rucks in the competition.

From what I’ve read, there doesn’t appear to be any rated state league rucks available this year.

I’m not against selecting a mature age ruck, or trading in a second string ruck, but my limited experience is that the majority of dominant rucks in the game today were drafted by their team. Not that teams need a dominant ruck to win a flag.

 

[SizeMatters]

I think he could play up on the wing I just don't think he would be as effective there as at half back. He is strong defensively and provides the bigger body that we need back there. On this wing this is required less, his disposal is only average, he does not find space that easily and I am not sold on his ability to win clearances when onball. Overall I think he could end up a decent winger but has a much higher ceiling at half back and that is where I would prefer to leave him.

agree. a lot of posters have fallen in love with the idea of playing him in the midfield and TBH they have no clue about footy. HBF for mine.

 

[mpal6]

The way I view our list long term, in terms of ruck depth is.

Archie still probably delisted at the end of 2021.

Fullarton looks like he might eventually push McStay out of the team. I don’t view Fullarton as a ruck prospect, but as a KPF who can chop out in the ruck.

I’m still to be convinced by Ballenden, and still question if he makes it long term.

With few deficiencies in other areas, I’d be keen on drafting a young ruck this year, with the view that he’s our main back up from season 2022 and onwards.

Max Heath ! Max Heath ! Pick meeeeee

 

[briztoon]

agree. a lot of posters have fallen in love with the idea of playing him in the midfield and TBH they have no clue about footy. HBF for mine.

 

[briztoon]

Max Heath ! Max Heath ! Pick meeeeee

I’m not sold on one position or player at our pick.

Chances are, we’ll select someone I haven’t even thought of, or consider a prospect in our range.

But yes, I would prefer a ruck.

 

[Warwick]

The increase of list sizes again next year could work out perfectly for us.

Already have a couple of early picks, not a huge number of likely delistings, and hopefully a stronger draft.

We will need to add some elite first round talent after a few years of lower picks.

 

[Dalions]

The increase of list sizes again next year could work out perfectly for us.

Already have a couple of early picks, not a huge number of likely delistings, and hopefully a stronger draft.

We will need to add some elite first round talent after a few years of lower picks.

Is this correct?
I haven’t seen anything that suggests that list sizes will go back up again.

 

[trikster]

Is this correct?
I haven’t seen anything that suggests that list sizes will go back up again.

New AFL player pay deal reached, list sizes revealed

Players will be asked to take a pay cut of 3.5 per cent in 2021

www.afl.com.au

The changes are only in place for the 2021 season, with 2022 expected to revert to normal in what is the final season of the existing Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).

 

[Dalions]

New AFL player pay deal reached, list sizes revealed

Players will be asked to take a pay cut of 3.5 per cent in 2021

www.afl.com.au

The changes are only in place for the 2021 season, with 2022 expected to revert to normal in what is the final season of the existing Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).

Isn’t that talking about the cap?

 

[briztoon]

New AFL player pay deal reached, list sizes revealed

Players will be asked to take a pay cut of 3.5 per cent in 2021

www.afl.com.au

The changes are only in place for the 2021 season, with 2022 expected to revert to normal in what is the final season of the existing Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).

That’s talking about salary cap, NOT list sizes.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

But we wouldn’t be playing him in the first team, unless Oscar was injured, and after Archie leaves, there’s no one on the list currently who could play against the dominant rucks in the competition.

I'm specifically talking about situations where Oscar is injured. We might be doing our team a real disservice by throwing a 20 year old ruck into a trial by fire before he's physically ready.

From what I’ve read, there doesn’t appear to be any rated state league rucks available this year.

We have next year too, since Archie is on the list another year. There's also the veteran trade option. Unfortunately we didn't have the list spots to go after Hickey, nor could we offer him the game time Sydney could, but there could be someone available next year.

I’m not against selecting a mature age ruck, or trading in a second string ruck, but my limited experience is that the majority of dominant rucks in the game today were drafted by their team.

That has nothing to do with whether they were physically ready at age 20. I'm not against the idea of drafting a ruck this year precisely because most of the best ones have been in the AFL system since they were 18, but it's also harder to carry a development project given the list size cuts.