List Mgmt. 2020 Draft (December 9) discussion thread

[dlanod]

Our currently owned picks:

24 - Blake Coleman
43 - Harry Sharp
48 - Henry Smith

Our currently owned 2021 picks:

1st (MEL), 1st (BRI), 3rd (WCE), 3rd (BRI), 4th (MEL), 4th (COL), 5th (BRI)

 

[davemc_lions]

With drafting a ruck I sort of agree. A young ruck we need to put 3-4 years into, not sure Archie will be there 2022
Fullarton/Ballenden more forwards who can ruck
Getting a 19-21 year old to be back up if Oscar goes down in 2022 is a risk.
Look at this year we tried Ballenden, Fullarton and Skinner.

I like to get some more time into Ballenden or Fullarton see how they go doing more work from Archie in the VFL/EC
Then choose next year someone mature. Teams like the Tigers have 6-7 rucks who have 2+ years in system if we look to replace Archie next year
Or even if we keep Archie and get another ruck.
I have hopes Fullarton can work out as a good Forward/Ruck.. Not sure #1 ruck.

 

[briztoon]

I'm specifically talking about situations where Oscar is injured. We might be doing our team a real disservice by throwing a 20 year old ruck into a trial by fire before he's physically ready.


We have next year too, since Archie is on the list another year. There's also the veteran trade option. Unfortunately we didn't have the list spots to go after Hickey, nor could we offer him the game time Sydney could, but there could be someone available next year.


That has nothing to do with whether they were physically ready at age 20. I'm not against the idea of drafting a ruck this year precisely because most of the best ones have been in the AFL system since they were 18, but it's also harder to carry a development project given the list size cuts.

Whether we draft a ruck or mid or another position, we’re highly unlikely to see them near the first team for one or two years anyway.

List sizes have only been cut by two at this stage, it’s not like we’re talking about a player required to be in our top 32 players in terms of depth.

We lose Archie at the end of next year. If you look at our current talls, that only leaves Fullarton, Ballenden and either Payne or Adams as our KPP’s in the reserves.

If we go for a mature ruck, it’s still going to be a teams third or fourth string ruck most likely.

We’re not going to get a quality ruck to come here just to be Oscars back up. It’s unlikely we attract a second string ruck either. They’re going to want to go to a team with an ageing first choice ruck.

This is why I see drafting a ruck as an option. The kid knows he’s got to do his time.

And you hope Ballenden or Fullarton are more ready to pinch hit in the ruck if needed in the meantime.

 

[martinson]

Whether we draft a ruck or mid or another position, we’re highly unlikely to see them near the first team for one or two years anyway.

List sizes have only been cut by two at this stage, it’s not like we’re talking about a player required to be in our top 32 players in terms of depth.

We lose Archie at the end of next year. If you look at our current talls, that only leaves Fullarton, Ballenden and either Payne or Adams as our KPP’s in the reserves.

If we go for a mature ruck, it’s still going to be a teams third or fourth string ruck most likely.

We’re not going to get a quality ruck to come here just to be Oscars back up. It’s unlikely we attract a second string ruck either. They’re going to want to go to a team with an ageing first choice ruck.

This is why I see drafting a ruck as an option. The kid knows he’s got to do his time.

And you hope Ballenden or Fullarton are more ready to pinch hit in the ruck if needed in the meantime.

I'm in the camp for drafting a ruck prospect because as you say we're going to need someone at some point and there's not much hope of getting anyone good presently.

Secondly no one wants to draft young ruckmen any more . So you're fishing where we could pick up a bargain.

We're very vulnerable if Oscar goes down , we're only hoping if we think Archie could carry the load. There's not much we can do about that right now but we can do something about 2 or 3 years hence.

I guess the thinking is that Daniher can shoulder some ruckwork. And Fullarton and/or Ballenden really kick on ,but they've got a fair way to go as far as ruck craft is concerned.

 

[Quigley]

That’s talking about salary cap, NOT list sizes.

I think it is talking about both.

They AFL and AFLPA have agreed to variations to the collective bargaining agreement next year for both fees and list sizes. The context of the quote is that the changes will drop away for 2022 when a new CBA is to be agreed for 2023 and it seems to me as though it would be unlikely that the agreement would have only one change coming back. That is not the way the AFLPA usually operates. I accept that it could be interpreted both ways but I agree with the way Warwick has read it.

 

[X AE A12]

I find it really hard to believe the Lions are comfortable with our ruck depth, and wonder what is in store for our immediate future. We showed we were trying to bring in experience by targeting Ceglar previously. With us entering a premiership window and having worked so hard to manage and develop everything else so well, it's a weakness that stands out. Especially with Smith getting injured in his meagre afl time this year.

Agree that as rucks take time we need to be considering drafting someone and giving them time to develop, but i wonder if we could get Lloyd Meek from dockers ooc next year. If there is an injury during the year could we bring in Jack Bell who was rookie drafted in 2019 by Saints but delisted this year without playing, but could have some more potential and may still be working on a second crack.

Callum coleman jones is another one ooc 2021 but had the issue earlier this year, don't know if has the right attitude but will be stuck behind Nankervis and Soldo youd think.

 

[Ralphy2017]

Whether we draft a ruck or mid or another position, we’re highly unlikely to see them near the first team for one or two years anyway.

List sizes have only been cut by two at this stage, it’s not like we’re talking about a player required to be in our top 32 players in terms of depth.

We lose Archie at the end of next year. If you look at our current talls, that only leaves Fullarton, Ballenden and either Payne or Adams as our KPP’s in the reserves.

If we go for a mature ruck, it’s still going to be a teams third or fourth string ruck most likely.

We’re not going to get a quality ruck to come here just to be Oscars back up. It’s unlikely we attract a second string ruck either. They’re going to want to go to a team with an ageing first choice ruck.

This is why I see drafting a ruck as an option. The kid knows he’s got to do his time.

And you hope Ballenden or Fullarton are more ready to pinch hit in the ruck if needed in the meantime.

Fair point about the ruck. I still have some hope that with a big preseason and a few kilos added in the Gym, Ballenden could be our backup ruck and eventually get in the best 22, he is a good kick at goal.
Have no idea what the best 22 will eventually look like, but I am worried some of the young guys, especially Payne will seek other opportunities, I can't see him waiting behind Lester or Adams, I would be surprised if there was not interest from other clubs, so could very well lose a KPP at the end of next year. Fullerton may also be thinking where he fits in with Daniher, but little doubt he will be upgraded probably on a two year contract.
I would not be picking Birchall, at 33 he is well past it. With the rule changes designed to open up the game Birchall is too slow, if you play him with Rich and Lester then we are slow.
I thought Hinge might have attracted some interest, but probably has not played enough AFL games to attract any significant interest. Lester had arguably his best year and surprised that there appeared little interest from other clubs, did not see anything reported. Appears now both will stay.

 

[jackess]

I find it really hard to believe the Lions are comfortable with our ruck depth, and wonder what is in store for our immediate future. We showed we were trying to bring in experience by targeting Ceglar previously. With us entering a premiership window and having worked so hard to manage and develop everything else so well, it's a weakness that stands out. Especially with Smith getting injured in his meagre afl time this year.

Agree that as rucks take time we need to be considering drafting someone and giving them time to develop, but i wonder if we could get Lloyd Meek from dockers ooc next year. If there is an injury during the year could we bring in Jack Bell who was rookie drafted in 2019 by Saints but delisted this year without playing, but could have some more potential and may still be working on a second crack.

Callum coleman jones is another one ooc 2021 but had the issue earlier this year, don't know if has the right attitude but will be stuck behind Nankervis and Soldo youd think.

Having our list spots reduced clearly had an impact.

 

[Ralphy2017]

We have also done very nicely out of the academy kids we have picked and if anything I think our academy kids often are judged more harshly by the Lions than by others. I would hope that for a fair assessment and if the draft grades are equal or very close to the academy kids would be favoured.

Harris around pick 60, Ballenden in the 40's and Payne in the 50's academy lads that were not rated. Although I think Freeo bid on Ballenden, Hippy went much higher and Coleman in the 30's
Then there are a number of academy lads Jonno Freeman, Keys, Allison etc etc who have been delisted.

I think if it is a toss of a coin on a selection and one is an academy boy then obviously with the link to the Lions they would be picked.

 

[JasRulz63]

Harris around pick 60, Ballenden in the 40's and Payne in the 50's academy lads that were not rated. Although I think Freeo bid on Ballenden, Hippy went much higher and Coleman in the 30's
Then there are a number of academy lads Jonno Freeman, Keys, Allison etc etc who have been delisted.

I think if it is a toss of a coin on a selection and one is an academy boy then obviously with the link to the Lions they would be picked.

To be fair, Harris was bid on with pick 34 (means North probably rated him as a second round pick), and the rules at the time was why he went at pick 61.

 

[X AE A12]

Having our list spots reduced clearly had an impact.

Yep, thinking what options we have from here

 

[jackess]

Yep, thinking what options we have from here

I don't think it's as bad as it looks. We've rarely had 2 rucks injured in a long time.

My preference would be to rookie list a mature age ruck if we have a spot.

 

[davemc_lions]

I agree who wants to be third in line. if Archie goes next year you will be second in line might be more tempting then 3rd,4th or 6th in line at some clubs
Using the Tigers as a example
Soldo, Nank, Chol, Coleman-Jones, then Nyoun and just signed Colina (Balta's cousin)
I thought we make a play for Nank this year although Soldo going down he be staying now

if we go for someone this year do we look at SANFL, WAFL or VFL for slightly older rucks? So someone bigger then a young 18 year old skinny kid.
Or just go for which ever ruck there when we use that pick. As maybe we pick two?

I do worry with Daniher unknown and if Big O goes down we short if we want to play 2.

 

[X AE A12]

I don't think it's as bad as it looks. We've rarely had 2 rucks injured in a long time.

My preference would be to rookie list a mature age ruck if we have a spot.

touch wood. McInerney was outstanding the way rose to the challenges and developed this year, he's come a long way, just wonder if we would be comfortable without genuine back up. If there was a young developing ruck that wanted to push for a primary ruck position in a top side in years to come, pushing McInerney out of a primary ruck position could be an challenge we could sell, whilst bolstering our depth and upgrading on Smith. McInerney has primarily played as 2nd ruck and whilst one of my favourite players to watch for a long time, think it makes sense to target someone to have there just behind or alongside him as primary.

So I agree it's not as bad as it looks, but do think we must be quite actively exploring ways to address this potential weakness, and can realistically see us attracting a trade request from a contracted ruck next year. This is because all of the better depth guys are kept on lists and given longer than short contracts/rolling extensions, and I do also think that being 2nd in line at Lions is better than 2nd/3rd somewhere else.

 

[jackess]

Henry Crauford just got delisted by Essendon. Was one of the higher rated state league rucks before being draft last year.

 

[Ralphy2017]

To be fair, Harris was bid on with pick 34 (means North probably rated him as a second round pick), and the rules at the time was why he went at pick 61.

Looks great value now with Harris, hopefully similar for Ballenden or Payne. As a side note a year or two later (2016 draft) North also bid 34 for Declan Watson from our academy. Unfortunately did an ACL and never got an AFL in three years before being delisted

 

[davemc_lions]

Henry Crauford just got delisted by Essendon. Was one of the higher rated state league rucks before being draft last year.

might be worth a look I know there was interest in him last year around clubs. Draper has the #1 spot they have another couple.
edit not a bad highlights reel when Bombers singed him

Dons secure Crauford, finalise list

Essendon bolsters its tall stocks and finalises its 2020 list with the arrival of Henry Crauford.

www.essendonfc.com.au

 

[briztoon]

I agree who wants to be third in line. if Archie goes next year you will be second in line might be more tempting then 3rd,4th or 6th in line at some clubs
Using the Tigers as a example
Soldo, Nank, Chol, Coleman-Jones, then Nyoun and just signed Colina (Balta's cousin)
I thought we make a play for Nank this year although Soldo going down he be staying now

if we go for someone this year do we look at SANFL, WAFL or VFL for slightly older rucks? So someone bigger then a young 18 year old skinny kid.
Or just go for which ever ruck there when we use that pick. As maybe we pick two?

I do worry with Daniher unknown and if Big O goes down we short if we want to play 2.

Not all the U18 ruck prospects are skinny this year.

Max Heath measured in at 203.4cm and weighed in at 93.7kg at the Vic Metro combine.

When you look at him, he looks like he has a similar frame to Stef Martin. Obviously doesn’t have the size yet.

And he would have a year behind Archie to bulking up.

The main thing most of them will have to work on is their endurance.

 

[davemc_lions]

briztoon Keep hearing Max Heath name here. Maybe worth a go.. that player who the bombers let go looked ok highlights as well

 

[briztoon]

briztoon Keep hearing Max Heath name here. Maybe worth a go.. that player who the bombers let go looked ok highlights as well

You only keep hearing it, as I keep mentioning it, lol.

 

[davemc_lions]

You only keep hearing it, as I keep mentioning it, lol.

the old did you hear the rumour i started

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Henry Crauford just got delisted by Essendon. Was one of the higher rated state league rucks before being draft last year.

I'd take him, either this season or next. He has five years on Max Heath, so he's much less likely to get outbodied if he's thrust into the seniors. I'd still draft Heath, I'd just wait a few seasons before making him backup ruck.

 

[Saucery]

Or we can wait for next years fire sale and get Grundy for a future 3rd rounder with Collingwood to pay half his salary for the term of his contract?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

In the Essendon forum they're really not happy about delisting Crauford. I guess they have Draper who is very highly rated, but it sounds like Crauford did alright in scratch matches. His biggest knock is endurance and that's something that can be fixed.

 

[Lazza16]

Strange decision by the bombers having lost their number one Ruck.....Hector must of stank up the scratch matches or upset someone.....seen a lot lesser talented rucks.

 

[X AE A12]

In the Essendon forum they're really not happy about delisting Crauford. I guess they have Draper who is very highly rated, but it sounds like Crauford did alright in scratch matches. His biggest knock is endurance and that's something that can be fixed.

The article from his original signing references that he was selected from several similar options they were monitoring prior to the 2020 preseason selection period, so they at least rated him above some of the others we might consider as mature agers this year. Daniher would have good intel on him. From the small sample of footage and their comments he seems like a good competitor and agile for his size