List Mgmt. 2020 Draft (December 9) discussion thread

[dlanod]

Our currently owned picks:

24 - Blake Coleman
43 - Harry Sharp
48 - Henry Smith

Our currently owned 2021 picks:

1st (MEL), 1st (BRI), 3rd (WCE), 3rd (BRI), 4th (MEL), 4th (COL), 5th (BRI)

 

[martinson]

It's a hard situation to evaluate. What we really want is a backup for Oscar in case he he's injured who's better than Archie. The current thinking is that Archie's there ,we're not paying him much ,and we can work with his inadequacies if he's our only Ruck. And it's very difficult to bring someone onto the list who is good enough and has ambitions and then have to pay them what they're probably worth but hardly play them.

A lot of clubs are in the same boat . We'd have to hope that Fullarton bulks up enough to take on the role to some degree if required next year.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

The 23 mature-age bargain gems your club could steal at AFL draft - and three of them are ex-Pies

The 23 mature-age bargain gems your club could steal at AFL draft

www.foxsports.com.au

This article includes one mature ruck prospect: Corey Gault, once of Collingwood and now of Swan Districts, who made the WAFL team of the year. Only issue is, he's 28 and only has a few years left in him. But maybe he's better than Archie.

 

[Nuggo]

Will be interesting to see who falls to our pick. No doubt it will be somebody we had penciled in as a first rounder

 

[JasRulz63]

Big draft questions: No.1 chances, late bolters, how many picks, more

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey answers the big questions as the draft looms ever larger

www.afl.com.au

The Swans will wait to see what happens with Errol Gulden's bid, which is likely to come in the second round, but a bid could come late in the first round for Brisbane's Blake Coleman, with interest out there for the exciting talent.

Hopefully a bid comes for him after our pick 25, but at worst, we pick up a late first round talent despite trading out of the first round into next year's draft.

We then still have plenty of picks later in the draft that we could bundle up to move back into the second round. Those picks might also shift up a few spots (and therefore increase in points value) if the Dogs picks get wiped out.

 

[briztoon]

Big draft questions: No.1 chances, late bolters, how many picks, more

AFL.com.au's draft guru Cal Twomey answers the big questions as the draft looms ever larger

www.afl.com.au

Hopefully a bid comes for him after our pick 25, but at worst, we pick up a late first round talent despite trading out of the first round into next year's draft.

We then still have plenty of picks later in the draft that we could bundle up to move back into the second round. Those picks might also shift up a few spots (and therefore increase in points value) if the Dogs picks get wiped out.

I expect late picks to move up significantly with Dogs, Swans, Port and probably Collingwood all using multiple picks to match first round bids on their kids.

I’ll be somewhat exacerbated if a bid for Coleman comes before Brandon Walker.

I can understand a Coleman bid coming before Gulden and Joel Western.

 

[lionshine]

Mike Whiting in a chat with Nat Edwards regarding the Lions stated he expects us to target a player with speed with our second rounder which he said he expects to get pushed back to around pick 30 after NGA bids.

 

[dlanod]

If a bid on Coleman comes in the 22-24 range we could even trade out pick 25 for something next year because our later picks would cover the value and there's not a heap of value in retaining the left over points of 25 at the end of the draft when we already have more late picks than we can use.

 

[briztoon]

If a bid on Coleman comes in the 22-24 range we could even trade out pick 25 for something next year because our later picks would cover the value and there's not a heap of value in retaining the left over points of 25 at the end of the draft when we already have more late picks than we can use.

Have said the same.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Mike Whiting in a chat with Nat Edwards regarding the Lions stated he expects us to target a player with speed with our second rounder which he said he expects to get pushed back to around pick 30 after NGA bids.

Some of the prospects available there with good 20m sprint times include Liam Kolar, Fraser Rosman, Zavier Maher and maybe Isiah Winder.

 

[JasRulz63]

If a bid on Coleman comes in the 22-24 range we could even trade out pick 25 for something next year because our later picks would cover the value and there's not a heap of value in retaining the left over points of 25 at the end of the draft when we already have more late picks than we can use.

If we felt strongly about having a pick this year, we could shift out our later picks for Sydney's pick 31. Currently our late picks are approximately equal to pick 31, but that will change if the Bulldogs picks get wiped out for JUH. If it gets to 31 and Coleman hasn't been taken, we move the pick into next year.

 

[CarterS]

Coleman will be an exciting pickup! Cant wait to see both Coleman's getting around

 

[chopperduck]

I think he could play up on the wing I just don't think he would be as effective there as at half back. He is strong defensively and provides the bigger body that we need back there. On this wing this is required less, his disposal is only average, he does not find space that easily and I am not sold on his ability to win clearances when onball. Overall I think he could end up a decent winger but has a much higher ceiling at half back and that is where I would prefer to leave him.

I agree with this. Have seen a lot of people talk about his ability to move to wing or midfield, but I don't buy it. A lot of his strengths suit that back 6 position. He is a great size for match ups, and has become really reliable down there. I don't think he finds a lot of the ball or uses it overly damaging to need to move him up field, there are a few players who could play mid/wing before moving him.

Also agree that we have some good depth and options for wing positions.

 

[Quigley]

I said at the beginning of the year I saw Coleman as a first round talent. If he ends up going that high then so be it. Their are very few small forward options with a better skill set in this draft. Admittedly the position is harder to assess and the failure rate is higher but to me he is worth pick 25 if that is where we end up having to take him. Dropping to 25 makes it more likely that someone will make us pay that price to keep him given we have dropped in behind a few teams who are regular bidders on academy players.

I would like us to grab a development ruck and this year I think there are some who are worth investing time into. Smith is a serviceable number two and Ballenden I think might be a decent number 3 next year. There is also no reason why we would not extend Archie after next year if he is doing the job he is paid to do even if he is not challenging for the number 1 spot. That would give a young ruck a few years to develop without a lot of pressure on them.

 

[trikster]

This helps a little with list management

 

[briztoon]

This helps a little with list management

I would have three players in mind.

Mitch Robinson

5

Mitch Robinson

Age

34

Ht

184cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

15.8

4star

K

11.3

4star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.9

3star

CL

1.8

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.6

5star

and Rhys Mathieson

36

Rhys Mathieson

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

18.4

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

9.0

5star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.8

5star

as players in the last year of their contract, and unlikely to be kept on the list.

Connor McFadyen, done his acl, could probably be put on the lti for the whole season, and open up an extra rookie spot for the SSP.

I expect quite a few undrafted Vic kids will train with Melbourne clubs during the preseason, and then be picked up as undrafted rookies.

This likely sees a lot of the late developers who would have been drafted this year, but miss out due to covid still being picked up.

With the proposed 3 waiver periods for clubs to sign players next year, I expect the depth of next year’s draft to be thinned somewhat.

 

[briztoon]

A few players who might be available in our draft range who I like.

Players who might slide, but I believe should be off the board.

Nathan O’Driscoll - big bodied inside mid with power and breakaway speed. Most draft watchers rate as a top 15 talent, but Twomey repeatedly has mentioned is in the 20 to 30 range.

Nathan O'Driscoll

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Eddie Ford - tall half forward and inside mid. Elite jump and speed athlete, has decent skills and models his game on Nat Fyfe. I would love a Ford and Rayner combination rotating between midfield and forward.

Eddie Ford

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Finlay Macrae - balanced mid with good skills, can use both feet, has deceptive agility on the field and has the ability to slow the game down. Would provide the perfect foil for McCluggage as an outside mid on the opposite wing.

Finlay Macrae

Finlay Macrae is the half-brother of Jack, and boasts many similar traits as a midfielder who wins plenty of the ball. Check out his 2020 AFL Draft Profile.

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Zane Trew - classy inside mid who wins the ball, has elite hands and is a good field kick. Has been somewhat injury plagued the last two years, which might impact his draft position.

Zane Trew

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Players who could be available, but aren’t a high need, but I believe are undervalued.

Sam Berry - in and under bull, who is very good defensively and is a relentless tackler. Is a very good athlete for an inside mid, but does lack a little speed. Would likely have been Vic countries captain this year.

Sam Berry

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Zavier Maher - inside mid with top line breakaway speed and explosive power. Has a long penetrating kick. Maher is not a tall (184cm) or big bodied mid, but is damaging because he can get the ball out of congestion and deep forward with his speed and long kick.

Zavier Maher

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Jake Bowey - he’s basically ginger Zorko starting from a higher base and better skills. His testing was just a little bit better than Zorko’s all round. Faster, higher leap, better runner, when comparing both their combine results. Like Zorko he can go forward and play as a small forward, and he has that hard edge as a smaller inside player.

Jake Bowey

Jake Bowey has elite skills and some elite athletic traits taht make him standout on the field and he looms as a likely top 30 prospect in this year's draft

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Players who should be right in the mix at our pick, and fit a need.

Max Heath - ruck who is a late developer and was a standout in the preseason for Sandringham. Heath is not a tall, skinny prospect, at almost 204cm and over 94kg’s. He has a strong frame on him, and could build his body up to something similar to Stef Martin. He’s aggressive in the ruck, showed good skills around the ground, and can go forward as a strong marking target and kick a goal.

Max Heath

Max Heath is an imposing ruckman who dominates the engine room with his physicality and competitiveness. Check out his Draft Profile.

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Isiah Winder - can play half back, wing, half forward, and has the frame to suggest he will be able to play through the midfield as well. Winder is an explosive athlete with elite speed and jumping abilities, while also being a natural footballer, and is a strong tackler. While his standout games have been as a small/medium forward, he could be developed as an intercepting and elite run and carry rebound defender, similar to what we are doing with Callum Ah Chee

4

Callum Ah Chee

Age

26

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

0.8

3star

D

11.1

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

9.4

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

.

Isiah Winder

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Shannon Neale - potentially the top athletic, run and jump, ruck forward prospect this year, coming from a national level athletics background as a junior. He’s considered a rawer prospect than Max Heath, but with a similar high upside, having shown a lot of improvement over the last 24 months.

Shannon Neale

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Fraser Rosman - wing and third tall forward prospect. Rosman was another Sandringham Dragon who played very little last year, but impressed during the preseason, playing a mix of wing and tall forward. His game has been described as similar to Jaidyn Stephenson

2

Jaidyn Stephenson

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

8.8

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.5

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.2

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.4

5star

, with a long kick off his left boot, high mark and tackles hard. Rosman was also a standout at the Vic metro combine, running an elite 2km in 5:52, backing that up with 2.9 second 20 metre sprint, with a good (78cm off either leg) but not elite jump. With that mix of endurance and speed, combined with his height and leap, he could be a nightmare for opponents to line up against on a wing. Couple that with his positional flexibility to go forward and provide a tall marking target with top end speed.

Fraser Rosman

afl.draftcentral.com.au

 

[jjami15]

I would have three players in mind.

Mitch Robinson

5

Mitch Robinson

Age

34

Ht

184cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

15.8

4star

K

11.3

4star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.9

3star

CL

1.8

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.6

5star

and Rhys Mathieson

36

Rhys Mathieson

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

18.4

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

9.0

5star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.8

5star

as players in the last year of their contract, and unlikely to be kept on the list.

Connor McFadyen, done his acl, could probably be put on the lti for the whole season, and open up an extra rookie spot for the SSP.

I expect quite a few undrafted Vic kids will train with Melbourne clubs during the preseason, and then be picked up as undrafted rookies.

This likely sees a lot of the late developers who would have been drafted this year, but miss out due to covid still being picked up.

With the proposed 3 waiver periods for clubs to sign players next year, I expect the depth of next year’s draft to be thinned somewhat.

A few players who might be available in our draft range who I like.

Players who might slide, but I believe should be off the board.

Nathan O’Driscoll - big bodied inside mid with power and breakaway speed. Most draft watchers rate as a top 15 talent, but Twomey repeatedly has mentioned is in the 20 to 30 range.

Nathan O'Driscoll

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Eddie Ford - tall half forward and inside mid. Elite jump and speed athlete, has decent skills and models his game on Nat Fyfe. I would love a Ford and Rayner combination rotating between midfield and forward.

Eddie Ford

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Finlay Macrae - balanced mid with good skills, can use both feet, has deceptive agility on the field and has the ability to slow the game down. Would provide the perfect foil for McCluggage as an outside mid on the opposite wing.

Finlay Macrae

Finlay Macrae is the half-brother of Jack, and boasts many similar traits as a midfielder who wins plenty of the ball. Check out his 2020 AFL Draft Profile.

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Zane Trew - classy inside mid who wins the ball, has elite hands and is a good field kick. Has been somewhat injury plagued the last two years, which might impact his draft position.

Zane Trew

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Players who could be available, but aren’t a high need, but I believe are undervalued.

Sam Berry - in and under bull, who is very good defensively and is a relentless tackler. Is a very good athlete for an inside mid, but does lack a little speed. Would likely have been Vic countries captain this year.

Sam Berry

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Zavier Maher - inside mid with top line breakaway speed and explosive power. Has a long penetrating kick. Maher is not a tall (184cm) or big bodied mid, but is damaging because he can get the ball out of congestion and deep forward with his speed and long kick.

Zavier Maher

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Jake Bowey - he’s basically ginger Zorko starting from a higher base and better skills. His testing was just a little bit better than Zorko’s all round. Faster, higher leap, better runner, when comparing both their combine results. Like Zorko he can go forward and play as a small forward, and he has that hard edge as a smaller inside player.

Jake Bowey

Jake Bowey has elite skills and some elite athletic traits taht make him standout on the field and he looms as a likely top 30 prospect in this year's draft

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Players who should be right in the mix at our pick, and fit a need.

Max Heath - ruck who is a late developer and was a standout in the preseason for Sandringham. Heath is not a tall, skinny prospect, at almost 204cm and over 94kg’s. He has a strong frame on him, and could build his body up to something similar to Stef Martin. He’s aggressive in the ruck, showed good skills around the ground, and can go forward as a strong marking target and kick a goal.

Max Heath

Max Heath is an imposing ruckman who dominates the engine room with his physicality and competitiveness. Check out his Draft Profile.

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Isiah Winder - can play half back, wing, half forward, and has the frame to suggest he will be able to play through the midfield as well. Winder is an explosive athlete with elite speed and jumping abilities, while also being a natural footballer, and is a strong tackler. While his standout games have been as a small/medium forward, he could be developed as an intercepting and elite run and carry rebound defender, similar to what we are doing with Callum Ah Chee

4

Callum Ah Chee

Age

26

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

0.8

3star

D

11.1

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.4

2star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

9.4

3star

K

4.4

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.8

3star

.

Isiah Winder

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Shannon Neale - potentially the top athletic, run and jump, ruck forward prospect this year, coming from a national level athletics background as a junior. He’s considered a rawer prospect than Max Heath, but with a similar high upside, having shown a lot of improvement over the last 24 months.

Shannon Neale

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Fraser Rosman - wing and third tall forward prospect. Rosman was another Sandringham Dragon who played very little last year, but impressed during the preseason, playing a mix of wing and tall forward. His game has been described as similar to Jaidyn Stephenson

2

Jaidyn Stephenson

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

8.8

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

1.5

5star

D

11.0

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

3.5

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.2

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

3.4

5star

G

1.4

5star

, with a long kick off his left boot, high mark and tackles hard. Rosman was also a standout at the Vic metro combine, running an elite 2km in 5:52, backing that up with 2.9 second 20 metre sprint, with a good (78cm off either leg) but not elite jump. With that mix of endurance and speed, combined with his height and leap, he could be a nightmare for opponents to line up against on a wing. Couple that with his positional flexibility to go forward and provide a tall marking target with top end speed.

Fraser Rosman

afl.draftcentral.com.au

Just want to say a big thanks to all of your work. Usually am able to watch the national champs and focus on individuals myself but these are the times as they say. We need a ruck desperately IMO as much as I would rather a different type of player. It will be interesting to see what happens with our first pick but not too long to see now.

 

[JasRulz63]

I would have three players in mind.

Mitch Robinson

5

Mitch Robinson

Age

34

Ht

184cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.9

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

8.7

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

15.8

4star

K

11.3

4star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.9

3star

CL

1.8

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.6

5star

and Rhys Mathieson

36

Rhys Mathieson

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

9.2

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

3.4

5star

No current season stats available

D

18.4

5star

K

9.4

4star

HB

9.0

5star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.8

5star

as players in the last year of their contract, and unlikely to be kept on the list.

Connor McFadyen, done his acl, could probably be put on the lti for the whole season, and open up an extra rookie spot for the SSP.

I expect quite a few undrafted Vic kids will train with Melbourne clubs during the preseason, and then be picked up as undrafted rookies.

This likely sees a lot of the late developers who would have been drafted this year, but miss out due to covid still being picked up.

With the proposed 3 waiver periods for clubs to sign players next year, I expect the depth of next year’s draft to be thinned somewhat.

I wonder if we'll move say Matho and Hinge to the rookie list, opening up three senior list spots with the delisting of Cox.

Two picks at the draft and upgrading Fullarton will leave one free rookie spot behind we can either fill via the RD, take into next year for the SPP, or convert to another ND pick by moving someone else to the rookie list via the RD.

It'll be interesting to see how the mid season signings of overage rookies works next year. Realistically, someone like Keidean Coleman would've been taken from under our noses under the same rules.

 

[dlanod]

It'll be interesting to see how the mid season signings of overage rookies works next year. Realistically, someone like Keidean Coleman would've been taken from under our noses under the same rules.

I think it's optional to accept those offers, so in theory we could try to convince Coleman to remain with us in that scenario.

 

[JasRulz63]

I think it's optional to accept those offers, so in theory we could try to convince Coleman to remain with us in that scenario.

Is that still going to be the case if the slated rules come in? It was reported that if multiple teams nominated a player, the team lowest on the ladder would get priority. Feels blatantly open to exploiting if players could nominate specific teams as such.

 

[JasRulz63]

Interesting to see what comes of the deadline for the 1st lodgement as well as NGA/academy nominations today.

 

[dlanod]

Is that still going to be the case if the slated rules come in? It was reported that if multiple teams nominated a player, the team lowest on the ladder would get priority. Feels blatantly open to exploiting if players could nominate specific teams as such.

Club nomination is not really what I was thinking - more a yes/no question of "will you take part in the mid-season draft?" After all potentially moving across the country in the middle of a season is a lot more disruptive than the usual draft process, especially since we're seeing players delisted after that half year.

Players who have a shortcut to a particular club (father/sons; academy kids) would be more likely to say no, knowing they have a inside line to a specific club in the real draft at the end of the year.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Zavier Maher - inside mid with top line breakaway speed and explosive power. Has a long penetrating kick. Maher is not a tall (184cm) or big bodied mid, but is damaging because he can get the ball out of congestion and deep forward with his speed and long kick.

He sounds like a real point of difference to what we currently have. I remember Shai Bolton

29

Shai Bolton

Age

25

Ht

176cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.3

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

12.7

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

3.5

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.8

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.0

1star

slamming us out of the middle with his speed the first time we played Richmond this year. It'd be good to get that sort of player.

 

[Mighty Lions]

He sounds like a real point of difference to what we currently have. I remember Shai Bolton

29

Shai Bolton

Age

25

Ht

176cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.3

3star

K

6.9

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.4

4star

D

12.7

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

3.5

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.7

4star

CL

1.8

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.0

1star

slamming us out of the middle with his speed the first time we played Richmond this year. It'd be good to get that sort of player.

Isn't Bailey supposed to be that sort of player?