List Mgmt. 2020 Draft (December 9) discussion thread

[dlanod]

Our currently owned picks:

24 - Blake Coleman
43 - Harry Sharp
48 - Henry Smith

Our currently owned 2021 picks:

1st (MEL), 1st (BRI), 3rd (WCE), 3rd (BRI), 4th (MEL), 4th (COL), 5th (BRI)

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Nah, I am a Queenslander and I wish the Suns no success. They could fold for all I care.

If they fold, the game in Queensland loses momentum and the media narrative will swing against us (meaning the game, not just the Lions) once again. It's short-sighted to want the Suns to fold. A rising tide lifts all boats.

I am a simple man, but they are competing with us for memberships, game day attendance, sponsorship $s etc.

Would have thought those opportunities would flow to us if the Suns weren't in the comp or in SEQ.

Not really. The Gold Coast and Brisbane are different markets, and plenty of people go to Suns games who would never have gone to Lions games had the Suns not existed. There's no shortage of sponsors either. And the more media coverage and opportunity there is for the game across both Brisbane and the Gold Coast, the more juniors get into it, meaning better players will come from Queensland and everyone can get more fans as a result.

 

[Maboo]

Like I said, you don’t understand being a Queenslander.

Queenslander all the way, but * the Suns

 

[Dylan12]

The Gold Coast and Brisbane are different markets, and plenty of people go to Suns games who would never have gone to Lions games had the Suns not existed.

So why did the Lions lose so many members when the Suns entered the competition?

To say we didn't is just BS.

I'm still holding out hope they fold or continue to be a development club for other AFL club and go the same way as many other Gold Cost based teams and my hatred of them will only increase with the significant ongoing concessions they continue to receive.

 

[Tassie4ever]

Send the Suns to Tasmania and rename them the Tasmanian Kangaroo Sun Devils.

Tassie Devils will do.

 

[briztoon]

So why did the Lions lose so many members when the Suns entered the competition?

To say we didn't is just BS.

I'm still holding out hope they fold or continue to be a development club for other AFL club and go the same way as many other Gold Cost based teams and my hatred of them will only increase with the significant ongoing concessions they continue to receive.

Probably because the Brisbane Bears were a Gold Coast team for a fair portion of their life, before the merger with Fitzroy.

So there was a large Gold Coast membership that moved to the new local team when it started up.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

So why did the Lions lose so many members when the Suns entered the competition?

To say we didn't is just BS.

How many did we lose, and how many of them went to the Suns? Face it, the Gold Coast had grown so much in population that it was getting its own team sooner or later.

I'm still holding out hope they fold or continue to be a development club for other AFL club and go the same way as many other Gold Cost based teams and my hatred of them will only increase with the significant ongoing concessions they continue to receive.

I think wanting a team to fold is disgusting and heartless, but if your hate keeps you warm at night, then more power to you.

 

[M Malice]

So why did the Lions lose so many members when the Suns entered the competition?

To say we didn't is just BS.

I'm still holding out hope they fold or continue to be a development club for other AFL club and go the same way as many other Gold Cost based teams and my hatred of them will only increase with the significant ongoing concessions they continue to receive.

You're right D12, the Suns entered the competition in 2011, our crowd average and membership numbers >

2010- Average crowd- 29,933. 2011- Average crowd- 20,462. By far the biggest single season drop in our history.(not including the Covid drop)

2010- Membership- 26,779. 2011- Membership- 22,338. 2nd worst drop off in memberships in our history.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You're right D12, the Suns entered the competition in 2011, our crowd average and membership numbers >

2010- Average crowd- 29,933. 2011- Average crowd- 20,462. By far the biggest single season drop in our history.(not including the Covid drop)

2010- Membership- 26,779. 2011- Membership- 22,338. 2nd worst drop off in memberships in our history.

I'm sure the club going from 6th in 2009 to 13th in 2010 and 15th in 2011 was also a big factor. And even if all 4000 ex-members went to the Suns, they had 14 000 members in 2011, so that's another 10 000 who wouldn't have bothered becoming Lions members who joined. Having a second team has been a benefit for the game in Queensland overall and we'll see benefits from that too.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Have a look at QLD AFL participation rates after the Suns were born.

 

[Surly Boy]

If they fold, the game in Queensland loses momentum and the media narrative will swing against us (meaning the game, not just the Lions) once again. It's short-sighted to want the Suns to fold. A rising tide lifts all boats.


Not really. The Gold Coast and Brisbane are different markets, and plenty of people go to Suns games who would never have gone to Lions games had the Suns not existed. There's no shortage of sponsors either. And the more media coverage and opportunity there is for the game across both Brisbane and the Gold Coast, the more juniors get into it, meaning better players will come from Queensland and everyone can get more fans as a result.

A competitive Lions team would maintain momentum and hard to see why the media should turn against us in that scenario? As I said, I kind of get the good for the growth if the game argument, the bit about us benefiting financially because the Suns exist is what I am questioning.

Re the competition for memberships, SEQ isn't that big and really is one market. Note the info from other posters about attendance and membership impacts when the Suns entered this market. That direct competition has had an impact.

 

[jackess]

You're right D12, the Suns entered the competition in 2011, our crowd average and membership numbers >

2010- Average crowd- 29,933. 2011- Average crowd- 20,462. By far the biggest single season drop in our history.(not including the Covid drop)

2010- Membership- 26,779. 2011- Membership- 22,338. 2nd worst drop off in memberships in our history.

2010 membership had a decent jump off the back of playing finals and recruiting Fev IIRC. Might need to look at a longer term trend

 

[dlanod]

You're right D12, the Suns entered the competition in 2011, our crowd average and membership numbers >

2010- Average crowd- 29,933. 2011- Average crowd- 20,462. By far the biggest single season drop in our history.(not including the Covid drop)

2010- Membership- 26,779. 2011- Membership- 22,338. 2nd worst drop off in memberships in our history.

I reckon the Suns had an impact, but that massively exaggerates it. 2010 was our highest membership in years because we'd built off a 2009 finals appearance and recruited Fev. We then sucked in 2010, so there was always going to be a drop off. Comparing it to 2008, the previous time we'd been crap two years running we had a membership of 22,737. Very similar numbers.

However the crowd number definitely plummeted - even in our previous crap years we were still getting 28k or more. It reads a lot more that we didn't lose many members for anything other than our own efforts, but we potentially lost a fair few casual supporters.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

A competitive Lions team would maintain momentum and hard to see why the media should turn against us in that scenario?

Because the game would be seen as having failed in Queensland. You already have the CM ignoring us wherever possible to support News Limited's ownership of the Broncos, no need to add to it.

As I said, I kind of get the good for the growth if the game argument, the bit about us benefiting financially because the Suns exist is what I am questioning.

Greater media impact across the state helps us.

Re the competition for memberships, SEQ isn't that big and really is one market. Note the info from other posters about attendance and membership impacts when the Suns entered this market. That direct competition has had an impact.

I responded to their info already, there were other factors having an impact too. How can you say SEQ isn't that big when it takes at least an hour to get from Brisbane to the Gold Coast and they have different vibes? I doubt there were that many Lions members on the Gold Coast in 2010, and probably many of those who were, were Bears holdovers from the Carrara days as briztoon was saying.

 

[Tassie4ever]

I don't "hate" the GC or in any way wish them ill. It's just that the new team should have been in Hobart.

As a Queensland-based Tasmanian I very strongly resent the way the Coast has been favoured with huge, ongoing draft concessions and massive, ongoing financial injections when the argument against having a Tasmanian-based team as far as I can see is, to this day, mostly that it wouldn't be financially viable. Seriously, as if the Coast is a going concern without AFL support.

On top of all this is the clear evidence that the experiment hasn't worked. Crowds and Membership at the Coast are actually declining. The only thing that makes them look good is GWS. Another monument to crap AFL egos.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I don't "hate" the GC or in any way wish them ill. It's just that the new team should have been in Hobart.

They were always going to put a team on the Gold Coast. It's GWS that you should have an issue with, they were the second choice.

As a Queensland-based Tasmanian I very strongly resent the way the Coast has been favoured with huge, ongoing draft concessions and massive, ongoing financial injections when the argument against having a Tasmanian-based team as far as I can see is, to this day, mostly that it wouldn't be financially viable.

The argument against Tasmania is that it has a small population that hasn't grown much in the past two decades. The Gold Coast has a higher population than all of Tasmania, a bigger economy and a higher growth rate, all in a more concentrated area. I think Tasmania deserves a team but it's easy to see why the AFL saw the Gold Coast as a higher priority.

Seriously, as if the Coast is a going concern without AFL support.

Tasmania would get similar levels of AFL funding. But in Tasmania's case the potential financial reward for the AFL is lower.

Crowds and Membership at the Coast are actually declining.

No they're not.

 

[abcde12345]

I think wanting a team to fold is disgusting and heartless, but if your hate keeps you warm at night, then more power to you.

You'd think of all teams, Lions supporters, particularly from the Fitzroy side of the family, would be empathetic towards this notion...

 

[briztoon]

A competitive Lions team would maintain momentum and hard to see why the media should turn against us in that scenario? As I said, I kind of get the good for the growth if the game argument, the bit about us benefiting financially because the Suns exist is what I am questioning.

Re the competition for memberships, SEQ isn't that big and really is one market. Note the info from other posters about attendance and membership impacts when the Suns entered this market. That direct competition has had an impact.

Er, what is your definition of SEQ.

It most definitely is seperate markets, depending what you’re looking at.

In a sporting sense, Gold Coast is a seperate market. So to would be Ipswich, if you plonked a team there.

 

[Dylan12]

I think wanting a team to fold is disgusting and heartless, but if your hate keeps you warm at night, then more power to you.

I lost my team when the VFL did nothing to protect it, so why should the AFL protect Gold Coast as much as they do to the detriment of all other clubs through continuous compromised drafts and concessions i.e. being given the NT.

I personally think North should be folded or relocated too and should've moved to the Gold Coast too. At the end of the day, there are too many clubs and not enough talent and the comp should be reduced to 14, so yeah, if that is disgusting and heartless, so be it.

 

[Tassie4ever]

They were always going to put a team on the Gold Coast. It's GWS that you should have an issue with, they were the second choice.


The argument against Tasmania is that it has a small population that hasn't grown much in the past two decades. The Gold Coast has a higher population than all of Tasmania, a bigger economy and a higher growth rate, all in a more concentrated area. I think Tasmania deserves a team but it's easy to see why the AFL saw the Gold Coast as a higher priority.


Tasmania would get similar levels of AFL funding. But in Tasmania's case the potential financial reward for the AFL is lower.


No they're not.

View attachment 1029513

My bad- the GC has been a HUGE success. Just unbelievably HUGE.

Which would explain the ongoing, endless, bottomless $$$$ largesse and draft concessions.

And, apparently, the edict that they have 3 years [now 1 year in?] to get it right or get out.

As I said, the only thing that makes the GC look good is GWS. Then again, the shiny bums never get it wrong, do they.

 

[Dylan12]

Because the game would be seen as having failed in Queensland. You already have the CM ignoring us wherever possible to support News Limited's ownership of the Broncos, no need to add to it.

Who gives a **** about a local newspaper when newspapers are becoming less and less relevant.

 

[Dylan12]

They were always going to put a team on the Gold Coast. It's GWS that you should have an issue with, they were the second choice.


The argument against Tasmania is that it has a small population that hasn't grown much in the past two decades. The Gold Coast has a higher population than all of Tasmania, a bigger economy and a higher growth rate, all in a more concentrated area. I think Tasmania deserves a team but it's easy to see why the AFL saw the Gold Coast as a higher priority.


Tasmania would get similar levels of AFL funding. But in Tasmania's case the potential financial reward for the AFL is lower.


No they're not.

View attachment 1029513

Membership numbers are such a poor guide given the advent of 3 game memberships in the last 3 years that massively inflate any club membership numbers. It should either be based on average attendance or full-season memberships, not mickey mouse memberships, which is what would be inflating Gold Coast's numbers.

 

[Dylan12]

You'd think of all teams, Lions supporters, particularly from the Fitzroy side of the family, would be empathetic towards this notion...

Yep, because the 200 rusted on Gold Coast members would lose a lot if Gold Coast folded with what, their illustrious 8 year history or whatever it is.

 

[SizeMatters]

wow, what a waste of data i've used on this. Suns are here to stay, move on. Just be glad footy in QLD is growing and the Lions are winning ffs. Suns will rise next year too. good on them. I support QLD footy. I support NSW footy. Any AFL in non-traditional states I support the growth of the game because I'm not a ******* boomer stuck in the 70s and 80s.

 

[briztoon]

In actual draft related news.

The AFL have returned to the elite national academy set up.

No Lions in the 21 selected kids. Two Gold Coast kids, well one GC and one NT tied to GC kids.

Father-son pair among 21 players in elite AFL Academy squad

The group of top-end talent will be coached by former Magpies defender Tarkyn Lockyer

www.afl.com.au

 

[Dylan12]

Two Gold Coast kids, well one GC and one NT tied to GC kids.

Nothing like a good old never ending Gold Coast concession at play that just keeps on going.