List Mgmt. 2020 Draft (December 9) discussion thread

[dlanod]

Our currently owned picks:

24 - Blake Coleman
43 - Harry Sharp
48 - Henry Smith

Our currently owned 2021 picks:

1st (MEL), 1st (BRI), 3rd (WCE), 3rd (BRI), 4th (MEL), 4th (COL), 5th (BRI)

 

[briztoon]

Doesn't sound like he would be available at pick 25..

Fair chance. After the top 10 to 12, anything can happen.

Teams might fall in love with a players preseason showing and imagine he could be something more.

A lot of the Vic kids look like they’ve spent a lot of time in the gym, a lot look more AFL ready, body wise, than we normally see. Clubs might go for that.

 

[StevoJenkins]

If we were to draft Winder in addition to Nakia Cockatoo

12

Nakia Cockatoo

Age

29

Ht

185cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.1

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.1

5star

G

0.7

4star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

0.2

3star

and Blake Coleman we'd be adding another three indigenous players to our list which would be fantastic and help off set the departure's of Bundy and Cox.

Shouldn't be drafting players and trading in players onto our list just because they are indigenous. We should be drafting players we think will make the best team. I've seen you post something similar to this last year, and whilst I think indigenous players are a part of the game's history, hoping for a diversity quota on the team is a little weird for me. If we do draft in another newbe outside of Coleman, I'd rather it be the best player available at that pick. Maybe even a developmental ruck if possible - I don't want Daniher in the ruck where he got injured last time.

 

[dlanod]

I think you guys are overreacting - he said "if we were to draft Winder". Not "We should draft Winder because".

 

[Clarkythelion]

Shouldn't be drafting players and trading in players onto our list just because they are indigenous. We should be drafting players we think will make the best team. I've seen you post something similar to this last year, and whilst I think indigenous players are a part of the game's history, hoping for a diversity quota on the team is a little weird for me. If we do draft in another newbe outside of Coleman, I'd rather it be the best player available at that pick. Maybe even a developmental ruck if possible - I don't want Daniher in the ruck where he got injured last time.

Perfectly put Stevo.

 

[spotthedog1]

I think you guys are overreacting - he said "if we were to draft Winder". Not "We should draft Winder because".

He's clearly draftable talent and would potentially be a bargain at that pick - no issues there. My question wasn't around the "if" we draft him, it was around the "adding another three indigenous players to our list... would be fantastic". To me, this says "this list makeup by ethnicity is more preferable than a different list makeup by ethnicity". And I really tried to make clear that I wasn't overreacting, or even reacting at all. I was genuinely asking the question.

 

[BuntonRules]

He's clearly draftable talent and would potentially be a bargain at that pick - no issues there. My question wasn't around the "if" we draft him, it was around the "adding another three indigenous players to our list... would be fantastic". To me, this says "this list makeup by ethnicity is more preferable than a different list makeup by ethnicity". And I really tried to make clear that I wasn't overreacting, or even reacting at all. I was genuinely asking the question.

innate f

IMO, if you were to design the perfect AFL team, you would have 2 or 3 indigenous players in it. The flair, running, and ability they bring - as a point of diference to the strength and other factors caucasian players bring - creates the perfect balance a champion team needs. So you need a half a dozen indigenous players to find the 1,2 or 3 that belong at the top level.

 

[lionshine]

I think you guys are overreacting - he said "if we were to draft Winder". Not "We should draft Winder because".

Yeah thanks dlanod.

I’m not suggesting we should recruit anyone because they are Indigenous. I’m just saying if we were too it’d be fantastic because of the work they do in the community using their profile as AFL players.

 

[lionshine]

Just so I’m completely clear, I want us to have the best team possible and recruit the best players for our team, irregardless of their race or cultural background. I’m merely saying IF we did happen to add more Indigenous talent to the list it’d be fantastic because I know it makes a big difference for the Aboriginal community.

And just to be even clearer I’m not interested in Winder due to his race... I think he is a great prospect and a terrific list fit. He is my second favourite prospect in this draft behind Nik Cox who I now believe to be out of our draft range.

 

[lionshine]

Shouldn't be drafting players and trading in players onto our list just because they are indigenous. We should be drafting players we think will make the best team. I've seen you post something similar to this last year, and whilst I think indigenous players are a part of the game's history, hoping for a diversity quota on the team is a little weird for me. If we do draft in another newbe outside of Coleman, I'd rather it be the best player available at that pick. Maybe even a developmental ruck if possible - I don't want Daniher in the ruck where he got injured last time.

Completely agree and never said we should. We are on the same page there. If I gave that impression I must of done a poor job of articulating my thought's originally. My bad mate

Also I agree a ruck would be great to have developing in the reserves under Big O. Nik Cox is my favourite player in this draft followed by Winder. I suspect Cox will be off the board before our first pick and Winder may yet be as well. If we don't get either of those guys a ruck would be my preference as well I think.

 

[lionshine]

Doesn't sound like he would be available at pick 25..

He may not be. He rose draft boards after his performances in the WAFL this year at Colts and Senior level. His draft stock improved even further after dominating the WA combine. Wouldn't be surprised if he went to a team with a pick in the 20's just before our first pick come draft night.

 

[Brett C]

Perfectly put Stevo.

Except it missed a key word “if” kinda changes the narrative. We don’t see anyone get that triggered when people talked about drafting Berry Jnr.

 

[briztoon]

Except it missed a key word “if” kinda changes the narrative. We don’t see anyone get that triggered when people talked about drafting Berry Jnr.

Wait till next year with McCluggage junior in his draft year.

 

[marooned]

Wait till next year with McCluggage junior in his draft year.

Talking to a bloke that lives nearby Cluggas family. He reckons Hugh’s brother is better as a junior. Gee imagine if he’s right. Sign him up

 

[briztoon]

Talking to a bloke that lives nearby Cluggas family. He reckons Hugh’s brother is better as a junior. Gee imagine if he’s right. Sign him up

He’s not even spoken about as a top 30 prospect amongst draft watchers.

 

[bain22]

Fair chance. After the top 10 to 12, anything can happen.

Teams might fall in love with a players preseason showing and imagine he could be something more.

A lot of the Vic kids look like they’ve spent a lot of time in the gym, a lot look more AFL ready, body wise, than we normally see. Clubs might go for that.

Funny you mention this, young fella at school was telling me his dad is flthy with the amount of fitness Will Phillips has lost. Been relying purely on his dad and his PE teacher to train him. Seems he hasn't reached the level that was expected of him this year fitness wise.

 

[StevoJenkins]

Except it missed a key word “if” kinda changes the narrative. We don’t see anyone get that triggered when people talked about drafting Berry Jnr.

I wasn’t really trying to establish a narrative, and didn’t get “triggered” if you read the full response. Deliberately avoided coming off as such. I was more so attempting to express my opinion on being excited about indigenous players on the team’s list and establishing what I think should be done with it.

For the record, I don’t think from what I’ve seen of Berry jr that he will be a long term player for the Lions. I feel he was picked to cement Jarrod in Brisbane. Happy to be proven wrong on that.

 

[Sanchez365]

The problem with this argument around indigenous kids or traditional pathways kids is the same arguments around gender equality. "Best for the job" doesn't always take into account the growth and training that has gone into getting to where they currently are.

I have no idea if Winder did or didn't come from traditional pathways so he may or may not have a higher ceiling then your usual prospect. However Brisbane seemed particularly risk adverse to selecting indigenous players for a decent period there, so it's certainly something worth talking about.

Personally I think it's actually a benefit to introduce different cultures to a team, not only for forcing people to look beyond the colour of their skin to create relationships now, but also in the future. While I'm not exactly sure how I would act in the cutthroat environment of an elite sporting team, in general society, it's pretty important we look past surrounding ourselves with people who look and act the same.

Sometimes you have to actively help create change otherwise you can inadvertently reinforce old stereotypes and "the boys" without realizing.

 

[JasRulz63]

He’s not even spoken about as a top 30 prospect amongst draft watchers.

From memory Hugh came from the clouds a bit in his draft year, and not many people would've had him in their top 20 or so before the start of his draft year. Was a late addition to the AFL academy. He was hampered by a back injury in his under age year though.

 

[mpal6]

Damn, AFL announcing points rule change this late. I wonder if Demons will find it easy to trade up with our 18 and 19 now.

 

[jackess]

Damn, AFL announcing points rule change this late. I wonder if Demons will find it easy to trade up with our 18 and 19 now.

Given how we stocked up on late picks I wouldn't be surprised if we knew this was happening.

 

[jackess]

Xavier Maher sounds a likely type of we don't draft a ruckman.

The young stars your club should consider taking with their first AFL draft pick

The inside word on who every club will consider taking with their first AFL draft pick

bit.ly

 

[dlanod]

Given how we stocked up on late picks I wouldn't be surprised if we knew this was happening.

The AFL had previously flagged that they’d use the previous senior list sizes for matching purposes, essentially giving everyone at least two bonus matching-only selections. That would’ve given us access to picks down 68 already (35 currently contracted players, senior list size of 38, 2020 senior list size of 40 = first five picks of 25, 53, 58, 63, 68 count). This change to open it up completely only adds 69 to our matching options.

 

[Quigley]

Funny you mention this, young fella at school was telling me his dad is flthy with the amount of fitness Will Phillips has lost. Been relying purely on his dad and his PE teacher to train him. Seems he hasn't reached the level that was expected of him this year fitness wise.

Personally I think Phillips will end up being the best player to come out of this draft. I really rate him.

 

[JasRulz63]

Damn, AFL announcing points rule change this late. I wonder if Demons will find it easy to trade up with our 18 and 19 now.

Probably the opposite. With the existing rules, you want as a few picks with high points value such as 18 and 19 to maximise the points from the list spots you have. With the tweak for this year, those become less valuable because you can load up on later picks instead.

It'll be the sides that loaded up on late picks that might be able to bundle them up and move into the second round.

 

[Quigley]

Interesting I have seen Carter Michael get a few mentions in the media. I am starting to think he might be a chance to get picked up either by us or someone else.