List Mgmt. 2020 Draft Thread

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jackcass

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Correct. But they made the choice to trade out that 2019 pick for another midfielder in Beams, rather than take it to the draft and target a KPF like Georgiades. That’s my context.

Once it became apparent to them in around 2018 that they wanted to primarily play Darcy Moore as a defender... they should’ve searched for their McMahon type then... not leave it as late as the 2020 draft.

Cause we all know it’s harder to find a decent 2 goal a game KPF... than a decent 20 touches a game midfielder
Be interesting to watch the 2018 and 2019 draft cohorts to see how they develop. Too early yet. Bears took Ely Smith with pick 21 in 2018 but if we'd kept it, it would have been absorbed by Quaynor (pick 13) anyway. Could have potentially traded it into 2019. In 2019, Port took Georgiadis with pick 18. Hard to know what those 2 picks together might have gotten us in 2019.
 

jackcass

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The Dogs comparison that suits us best is how our list is shaping to be like there’s was between 2017-2019... all midfielders and run, at the expense of KPP talent and depth (except developing English and Naughton)

Dogs are better now that they have picked up JUH and Bruce and Martin as depth... but for those years they’d get the ball inside 50 over 50 times a game, but struggled to score as they had no decent tall targets to hit

That was our struggle last year, and it will continue to be going forward. We’ve overlooked the Riccardi, Branders and Georgiades in favour of ex basketballers and Irishmen.

2020 draft we rightly invested in small forwards like McReery and Ginnivan, but overall we’ve just gone with sub 190cm players again with the exception of McMahon who will take time. (Reef is over 190cm but he is destined for the midfield)

Whilst we are relatively good at developing talent... the lack of a proper full forward until McMahon develops is an indictment.
Dogs issue was with their starting 22 lineup though. At least we start with Roughy, Moore, Checkers and Cox goal-2-goal. Hopefully we won't be too reliant upon either Kelly or Keane too often or too early and they can continue to develop. I'd also be more confident in JDG assuming that pseudo KPF role than Mitch Wallis. JDG's worst return in the last 3 years has been 1.4 goals a game, that's the best Wallis has ever done. Even in 2017 JDG averaged 1.0, Wallis 0.6.
 

Raveneyes

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Correct. But they made the choice to trade out that 2019 pick for another midfielder in Beams, rather than take it to the draft and target a KPF like Georgiades. That’s my context.

Once it became apparent to them in around 2018 that they wanted to primarily play Darcy Moore as a defender... they should’ve searched for their McMahon type then... not leave it as late as the 2020 draft.

Cause we all know it’s harder to find a decent 2 goal a game KPF... than a decent 20 touches a game midfielder

Edit: even this year with taking Chugg with our last rookie pick. Whilst looks like he will play senior footy at some stage... outside of the incumbents in Maynard and Quaynor... we already have several options in that rebounding defender role... Noble, Bianco... even reinventing a decent run and kick player in WHE

But we take surplus to requirement Chugg and pass up on Callow or a Toby Wooller etc.
I do agree.
Though being the 3rd highest scoring team in 2018, perhaps they felt that another topliner in the guts would deliver a flag.

I can envision Eddie pushing hard for Beams, to the eventual detriment of the club.
 

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Apex36

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Not sure but I think there was a rumour at the time that we were trying to trade back into that draft but no takers
Correct. There were a few talls we were looking at in the top 30 but nobody was willing to trade out because of the strength of the draft. The club that Scout from EBW works for were trying to trade for Bianco from the mid second round onward but nobody was willing to give up their pick.
 

TradeDraft

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The Dogs comparison that suits us best is how our list is shaping to be like there’s was between 2017-2019... all midfielders and run, at the expense of KPP talent and depth (except developing English and Naughton)

Dogs are better now that they have picked up JUH and Bruce and Martin as depth... but for those years they’d get the ball inside 50 over 50 times a game, but struggled to score as they had no decent tall targets to hit

That was our struggle last year, and it will continue to be going forward. We’ve overlooked the Riccardi, Branders and Georgiades in favour of ex basketballers and Irishmen.

2020 draft we rightly invested in small forwards like McReery and Ginnivan, but overall we’ve just gone with sub 190cm players again with the exception of McMahon who will take time. (Reef is over 190cm but he is destined for the midfield)

Whilst we are relatively good at developing talent... the lack of a proper full forward until McMahon develops is an indictment.
Reef is 193cm and Poulter is 192cm
 

sr36

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The Dogs comparison that suits us best is how our list is shaping to be like there’s was between 2017-2019... all midfielders and run, at the expense of KPP talent and depth (except developing English and Naughton)

Dogs are better now that they have picked up JUH and Bruce and Martin as depth... but for those years they’d get the ball inside 50 over 50 times a game, but struggled to score as they had no decent tall targets to hit

That was our struggle last year, and it will continue to be going forward. We’ve overlooked the Riccardi, Branders and Georgiades in favour of ex basketballers and Irishmen.

2020 draft we rightly invested in small forwards like McReery and Ginnivan, but overall we’ve just gone with sub 190cm players again with the exception of McMahon who will take time. (Reef is over 190cm but he is destined for the midfield)

Whilst we are relatively good at developing talent... the lack of a proper full forward until McMahon develops is an indictment.
Or perhaps how the tigers appeared at the end of 2017 when their period of dominance had just began. They've since gained Lynch and the undersized Grimes has kicked on, but they've lost Rance and Riewoldt has declined a fair bit. Noah Balta looks like being good too. But it's never been a team overflowing with KPP depth.
 

whiskeytown

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Or perhaps how the tigers appeared at the end of 2017 when their period of dominance had just began. They've since gained Lynch and the undersized Grimes has kicked on, but they've lost Rance and Riewoldt has declined a fair bit. Noah Balta looks like being good too. But it's never been a team overflowing with KPP depth.
Fair points regarding Richmond’s general lack of size and KPP depth. And they had a lot of smaller damaging players

But unlike us, they has Riewoldt... a year in and out 50 goal plus forward... who only lost his way... halved his output... when another 50 goal a year forward arrived at Punt rd in Lynch.

And they’ve now won 2 flags with Lynch and Riewoldt. A world away from Mihocek and Cox as a combo.

My point is that they could’ve invested in young KPF sooner so that right now we’d have said 40-50 goal a year player plus Mihocek and Cox supporting
 

sr36

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Fair points regarding Richmond’s general lack of size and KPP depth. And they had a lot of smaller damaging players

But unlike us, they has Riewoldt... a year in and out 50 goal plus forward... who only lost his way... halved his output... when another 50 goal a year forward arrived at Punt rd in Lynch.

And they’ve now won 2 flags with Lynch and Riewoldt. A world away from Mihocek and Cox as a combo.

My point is that they could’ve invested in young KPF sooner so that right now we’d have said 40-50 goal a year player plus Mihocek and Cox supporting
Who though? I'm not as confident as you regarding Brander and Riccardi. Naughton will probably be the one that got away in retrospect, but fair chance he'd be playing full back for us.

Lynch took a million bucks a year and we had a crack. Dixon cost a heap in terms of both trade and salary despite not having been previously reliable. The other likely kids alll went too early for us to get a crack at.
 

whiskeytown

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Reef is 193cm and Poulter is 192cm
Dogs issue was with their starting 22 lineup though. At least we start with Roughy, Moore, Checkers and Cox goal-2-goal. Hopefully we won't be too reliant upon either Kelly or Keane too often or too early and they can continue to develop. I'd also be more confident in JDG assuming that pseudo KPF role than Mitch Wallis. JDG's worst return in the last 3 years has been 1.4 goals a game, that's the best Wallis has ever done. Even in 2017 JDG averaged 1.0, Wallis 0.6.
De Goey has the talent but is set to spend a lot more time in the middle this year

we have no idea whether Cox or Elliot will return to their inside 50 marking best

W Kelly is a rookie developing forward. McMahon needs time.

Moore could be the ace up the sleeve... but no indication he is being switched forward

The only certainty is that Mihocek will be a 1-1.5 goal a game forward

I think we will get the ball inside 50 this year a bit but be bereft of targets. Which has largely been the Dogs problem since 2016.
 

whiskeytown

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Who though? I'm not as confident as you regarding Brander and Riccardi. Naughton will probably be the one that got away in retrospect, but fair chance he'd be playing full back for us.

Lynch took a million bucks a year and we had a crack. Dixon cost a heap in terms of both trade and salary despite not having been previously reliable. The other likely kids alll went too early for us to get a crack at.
We were unlucky with Lynch... but clearly had no cap room for him anyhow without letting even more players go

There have been a number of potential KPF come through the draft in the last 5 years or so.

O Allen, Brander, Balta, Georgiades, Riccardi, Naughton, King bros, Hipwood, Larkey, McKay, Weiderman, Wright, Curnow... and probably many more I’m overlooking

Who knows how they will turn out long term? Certainly some duds.

But if we had kept that additional beams 1rd pick picks and one of the Treloar 1st rd picks... we would have had a chance at drafting one or cutting a deal and trading one in.

My point is the club has deliberately chosen to prioritise mids over full forwards

Before McMahon... We hadn’t drafted a proper 195cm forward since Moore. That’s a lot of years of inactivity on that front.

Relying on B Reid, basketball converts, VFL defenders and Irish utilities to fill the void at full forward
 

TradeDraft

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We were unlucky with Lynch... but clearly had no cap room for him anyhow without letting even more players go

There have been a number of potential KPF come through the draft in the last 5 years or so.

O Allen, Brander, Balta, Georgiades, Riccardi, Naughton, King bros, Hipwood, Larkey, McKay, Weiderman, Wright, Curnow... and probably many more I’m overlooking

Who knows how they will turn out long term? Certainly some duds.

But if we had kept that additional beams 1rd pick picks and one of the Treloar 1st rd picks... we would have had a chance at drafting one or cutting a deal and trading one in.

My point is the club has deliberately chosen to prioritise mids over full forwards

Before McMahon... We hadn’t drafted a proper 195cm forward since Moore. That’s a lot of years of inactivity on that front.

Relying on B Reid, basketball converts, VFL defenders and Irish utilities to fill the void at full forward
We Drafted McLarty but he was a Bust
 

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Scodog10

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Doesn’t this article come out about every 5 years?
This is a little different. I understand why the league has done it, but a Victorian boy born from Jan to April is disadvantaged by these changes. Those guys are finished school so with cutbacks to the number of NAB league games they get a very limited window to impress. Whereas a kid born later in the year can play school footy when there’s no NAB league on.

Let’s say you’re a draftable talent and you pick up a 6 week injury immediately after having a pretty average carnival. That would have you miss the majority of the year unless you go back to your local club and could really impact your ability to impress. Daicos is someone in this boat, no footy at all in 2020 and no school footy in 2021 because he’s now 18 so is already a “professional footballer”. A poorly timed injury with the Chargers missing the finals and a rotation policy at the national championships could mean he joins the club with less than half a dozen U18 matches to his name against elite juniors. It’s a regression.

Instead of reducing funding to the boys to level the playing field the girls should have received extra funding...

One point I will make is on the personal coaching. It’s been the norm for a long time that these kids get mentors so that’s nothing new.
 
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Mkcaptain

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Instead of reducing funding to the boys to level the playing field the girls should have received extra funding...
That hits the nail on the head for me. Lots of the narrative I'm seeing on social media is that this is a good outcome for equality but I agree with you that this is the worst way of levelling the playing field.

E.g.
 

Scodog10

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That hits the nail on the head for me. Lots of the narrative I'm seeing on social media is that this is a good outcome for equality but I agree with you that this is the worst way of levelling the playing field.

E.g.
Fantastic outcome for equality and a poor outcome for the game. To be blunt the men’s game brings in 99% of revenue to the industry so we need that product to remain as strong as ever. I’m not sure what the solution was especially in a Covid environment, but there needs to be a better model than this. For instance if I’m a kid in Daicos’ shoes I’m bypassing the NAB league and signing with a state league team. Basically a Lamello Ball situation. If enough kids bypass the system it’ll send the message that it’s wrong.
 

Apex36

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That hits the nail on the head for me. Lots of the narrative I'm seeing on social media is that this is a good outcome for equality but I agree with you that this is the worst way of levelling the playing field.

E.g.
Piss weak tweets like that infuriate me. We’re talking about a billion dollar organisation here vs a startup, that is propped up by the billion dollar organisation, which until this year was giving free entrance to try and gain some traction. Yet we have morons like this guy wanting to weaken the organisation that funds the AFLW because “privilege”.

How about instead of taking the fast, but stupid route to footy equality, we actually take the time to build the womens game to a point where they can generate the resources that are currently generated for the men’s game....
 

Apex36

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Fantastic outcome for equality and a poor outcome for the game. To be blunt the men’s game brings in 99% of revenue to the industry so we need that product to remain as strong as ever. I’m not sure what the solution was especially in a Covid environment, but there needs to be a better model than this. For instance if I’m a kid in Daicos’ shoes I’m bypassing the NAB league and signing with a state league team. Basically a Lamello Ball situation. If enough kids bypass the system it’ll send the message that it’s wrong.
I’d honestly be shocked if the club didn’t sign Daicos to the VFL squad on the understanding that he’ll be unavailable during TAC and the National Champs. Playing against men this year will do wonders for his development imo. Unfortunately kids who aren’t aligned to clubs already might have more difficulty convincing VFL sides to play them over more seasoned bodies unless they’re already viewed as elite (top 10) talent.
 

jackcass

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This is a little different. I understand why the league has done it, but a Victorian boy born from Jan to April is disadvantaged by these changes. Those guys are finished school so with cutbacks to the number of NAB league games they get a very limited window to impress. Whereas a kid born later in the year can play school footy when there’s no NAB league on.

Let’s say you’re a draftable talent and you pick up a 6 week injury immediately after having a pretty average carnival. That would have you miss the majority of the year unless you go back to your local club and could really impact your ability to impress. Daicos is someone in this boat, no footy at all in 2020 and no school footy in 2021 because he’s now 18 so is already a “professional footballer”. A poorly timed injury with the Chargers missing the finals and a rotation policy at the national championships could mean he joins the club with less than half a dozen U18 matches to his name against elite juniors. It’s a regression.

Instead of reducing funding to the boys to level the playing field the girls should have received extra funding...

One point I will make is on the personal coaching. It’s been the norm for a long time that these kids get mentors so that’s nothing new.
Be interesting to see over time if the guys who finish school the preceding year remain with their NAB league sides or seek a VFL list spot.
 

SchuPie

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This is a little different. I understand why the league has done it, but a Victorian boy born from Jan to April is disadvantaged by these changes. Those guys are finished school so with cutbacks to the number of NAB league games they get a very limited window to impress. Whereas a kid born later in the year can play school footy when there’s no NAB league on.

Let’s say you’re a draftable talent and you pick up a 6 week injury immediately after having a pretty average carnival. That would have you miss the majority of the year unless you go back to your local club and could really impact your ability to impress. Daicos is someone in this boat, no footy at all in 2020 and no school footy in 2021 because he’s now 18 so is already a “professional footballer”. A poorly timed injury with the Chargers missing the finals and a rotation policy at the national championships could mean he joins the club with less than half a dozen U18 matches to his name against elite juniors. It’s a regression.

Instead of reducing funding to the boys to level the playing field the girls should have received extra funding...

One point I will make is on the personal coaching. It’s been the norm for a long time that these kids get mentors so that’s nothing new.
If I’m honest, I didn’t read it - I just saw the headline and thought it was about there general “kids will pick cricket over footy”

Good rundown - cheers
 

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