List Mgmt. 2020 Draft

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    • Jay Beast said:
    So we are looking for a developing ruck and KPF, have 3 list spots available but don't take a chance on Jackson Callow &/or Max Heath in the rookie draft.
    Why dump Savage, Marsh or any other fringe player if that was going to be the case?
    What are they trying to do with the list?
    I don't understand....
    Click to expand...
    Savage was unlucky to be OOC, but someone had to go.
    You can't have a depth of 5 or 6 players for the one position.
    In drafting Highmore they've now got someone who fits the age demographic

    Next year,
    Sav is 30,
    Gears 33
    Jimmy is 28,
    and none are really looking at a spot in the 22

    Marsh was a handy fill in, but not the answer to anything.

    I tend to think they've made exactly the right moves.
    The big picture perhaps isn't apparent yet, but IMO we're only short a young ruckman, and you'd expect they'll see to that shortly.
     
    Jay Beast said:
    So we are looking for a developing ruck and KPF, have 3 list spots available but don't take a chance on Jackson Callow &/or Max Heath in the rookie draft.
    Why dump Savage, Marsh or any other fringe player if that was going to be the case?
    What are they trying to do with the list?
    I don't understand....
    Click to expand...
    Potentially we dont have cap space or we want to have the players train with the squad before we sign them up in the preseason period as a rookie.
     

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    maanco said:
    We need to get back into the draft. We now have the oldest list in the AFL.

    Older than Geelong.
    @25.38 years old.

    Secound most experienced.
    11th for Brownlow votes.
    Click to expand...



    Geelong has 17 players 28 or older.
    Saints have 7 players 28 or older
    (5 x 27 years olds - 3 more than Geelong)

    Even so I predict our Best 22 will likely be below the median age in the league.
     
    sammm said:
    Still not great for 2021 draft.
    Click to expand...


    What did we lose our second rounder on this time?
    maanco said:
    Geelong has 17 players 28 or older.
    Saints have 7 players 28 or older
    (5 x 27 years olds - 3 more than Geelong)

    Even so I predict our Best 22 will likely be below the median age in the league.
    Click to expand...


    We also seem to be the least experienced side most weeks with lots of older players with low games played. Our backline most week had Ben Long 45 games, Clark 47, Paton 35, Coffield 36, Wilkie 41. All of them added 20 plus of those games this year. Dougal Howard has only played 64 as well so really only Carlisle and Geary when he played there were thinly players to have played more than 100 games.

    Our best 22 for 2020 only had 6 100+ game players. Guys like King held a key post despite never playing an AFL game before 2020.
     
    gringo2011 said:
    What did we lose our second rounder on this time?



    We also seem to be the least experienced side most weeks with lots of older players with low games played. Our backline most week had Ben Long 45 games, Clark 47, Paton 35, Coffield 36, Wilkie 41. All of them added 20 plus of those games this year. Dougal Howard has only played 64 as well so really only Carlisle and Geary when he played there were thinly players to have played more than 100 games.

    Our best 22 for 2020 only had 6 100+ game players. Guys like King held a key post despite never playing an AFL game before 2020.
    Click to expand...
    2nd rounder was used for Higgins.
     
    gringo2011 said:
    What did we lose our second rounder on this time?



    We also seem to be the least experienced side most weeks with lots of older players with low games played. Our backline most week had Ben Long 45 games, Clark 47, Paton 35, Coffield 36, Wilkie 41. All of them added 20 plus of those games this year. Dougal Howard has only played 64 as well so really only Carlisle and Geary when he played there were thinly players to have played more than 100 games.

    Our best 22 for 2020 only had 6 100+ game players. Guys like King held a key post despite never playing an AFL game before 2020.
    Click to expand...

    Ben Long was a mature age pick and was frankly not as ready to go as you expect from a mature ager.
    Clark : 47 games from a 21 year old is not particularly inexperienced. Dunstan played every game he could as a recruit, and would have had 35 games before he was 21.
    Paton and Wilkie were also not drafted as 18 year olds.
    Not sure what you expect or why you think it matters.
     
    Moral Decay said:
    I'm like you a bit confused but maybe and I mean maybe, we are putting into place the things we learnt from the hub and previous seasons with Parker, White, Marsh, Abbott, Bell, Austin and Hind. Get whomever in for 2 months see how they fit in with the group, the emphasis on the complete footballer rather than what seemed like a good idea at the time and really crunch the numbers on what they can do. We still have Dmac, Roberton, Webster, Joyce, and Alabakis who could all not be in contention for a senior game next year on the list, with covid really cutting the information down from a normal year, lets use every opportunity to not waste a spot .

    In short we may be looking to get as much info on players as we can before committing to someone that is marginal to play seniors
    Click to expand...

    Unlike midfielders, you should be able to tell the current status of the actual rockwork right now in a training session.
    Throw the ball up. If you win the tap against Alabakis, you aren't totally useless.
    If you win the taps against Howard, King , or McKernan, you are already good enough to be a backup ruck.
    If you win some of the taps against Marshall or any against Ryder , you are looking pretty damn good.
     
    OK there are 14 list spots open in the AFL , plus long term injuries. Gibbs has been able to be treated as a long term injury for payment purposes, which is bullshit.
    www.afl.com.au

    Nine clubs, 14 spots: Who will get an AFL lifeline for 2021?

    Mitch Cleary looks at some of the contenders to fill the remaining list spots for next season
    www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

    Some of the spots will go in the pre-season rookie draft. For example i hope Marsh gets the gig with Carlton.

    If no-one took any players mid-season the mid season draft order would look like :
    Adelaide ( Gibbs Replacement ).
    North
    Sydney
    Essendon
    Carlton
    Melbourne
    Collingwood
    StKilda
    Richmond
    Port
    Melbourne
    Collingwood
    StKilda
    Richmond
    StKilda

    Of course there will be long term injuries injecting extra picks , and some teams will use their places on pre-season rookies.
     
    SaintsSeptember said:
    OK there are 14 list spots open in the AFL , plus long term injuries. Gibbs has been able to be treated as a long term injury for payment purposes, which is bullshit.
    www.afl.com.au

    Nine clubs, 14 spots: Who will get an AFL lifeline for 2021?

    Mitch Cleary looks at some of the contenders to fill the remaining list spots for next season
    www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

    Some of the spots will go in the pre-season rookie draft. For example i hope Marsh gets the gig with Carlton.

    If no-one took any players mid-season the mid season draft order would look like :
    Adelaide ( Gibbs Replacement ).
    North
    Sydney
    Essendon
    Carlton
    Melbourne
    Collingwood
    StKilda
    Richmond
    Port
    Melbourne
    Collingwood
    StKilda
    Richmond
    StKilda

    Of course there will be long term injuries injecting extra picks , and some teams will use their places on pre-season rookies.
    Click to expand...


    why that order?
     

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    borderbarry said:
    So we are to have picks 8, 13 and 15. If we select someone pre draft, how will that effect our draft picks? Will we lose 8 or 15?
    Click to expand...

    15.

    But some clubs will probably have long term injury, so 8 can go higher.
    But other clubs may use their only pick pre-season , so they will go lower.

    I'll take the number one ladder position at mid season as a lock shall i ? :D
     
    SaintsSeptember said:
    Ben Long was a mature age pick and was frankly not as ready to go as you expect from a mature ager.
    Clark : 47 games from a 21 year old is not particularly inexperienced. Dunstan played every game he could as a recruit, and would have had 35 games before he was 21.
    Paton and Wilkie were also not drafted as 18 year olds.
    Not sure what you expect or why you think it matters.
    Click to expand...


    Because most players don't start to feel comfortable playing until around 50 games which usually ends to more consistent performance. Age is irrelevant compared to experience. They'll only improve.
     
    gringo2011 said:
    Because most players don't start to feel comfortable playing until around 50 games which usually ends to more consistent performance. Age is irrelevant compared to experience. They'll only improve.
    Click to expand...

    They are both relevant.
    You can't look at Wilkie and say that his SAFL experience hasn't helped him.
    You can't say that there is no difference in physique from an 18 year old , as they progress into their 20s. Some obviously more than others.
     
    gringo2011 said:
    Because most players don't start to feel comfortable playing until around 50 games which usually ends to more consistent performance. Age is irrelevant compared to experience. They'll only improve.
    Click to expand...
    Experience is important in development and age is just as important because players really don't really develop there bodies until they get into there 20s , very few kids are ready to go after being drafted - there are a few like Rowell and Walsh but players like King need a few years to build strength and weight to really step up.
    The new kid we just picked up in the draft will need a couple years to get his body right before he would even be considered IMO.
    We are now seeing players like Coffield 21 , Paton 22 , Hunter Clark 21 , Battle 22 starting to show there ability after a few years of solid work to get there strength and endurance to show there ability.
    Some players might take a little bit longer but really any high trade pick should be showing there worth by 22 - Ben Long can be considered in this bracket but even he is only 23 and now he is seasoned enough to say he will be a fixture in our 22.
    But then again all these guys have all played games to get there development and once again you will see most of these guys have played around the 50 games as you have stated above or after next season if all goes well they will be over that mark next season.
    Battle - Age: 22yr 3mth Games: 40
    Paton - Age: 22yr 1mth Games: 35
    Coffield - Age: 21yr 1mth Games: 36
    Hunter Clark - Age: 21yr 8mth Games: 47
    Long - Age: 23yr 3mth Games: 45
    Higgins - Age: 21yr 8mth Games: 43

    Players like Wilkie who we picked up as a 22yr old shows age is a factor but they still had a good development in the state leagues and hopefully Highmore will be the same.

    Our team is on the cusp of a massive step up due to the development of these kids and with the experience we have installed into the side with Hannerbery , Brad Hill , Ryder and Brad Crouch will the upside could be mind blowing.

    A kid like Bytel has not even really had a chance as of yet - his first year was written off due to his back injury and his 2nd year was basically a lack of game time due to Covid and Byrne has shown very good ability and he is only in his first year.

    Players can show huge improvement after a few years and Marshall is a fine example of this - in one season he went from a player where people thought he was a average performer and then the next thing he is our next big thing.

    You never know - Sam Alabakis at 2.11m and 23yrs of age could actually become a player , anyone that size can learn how to ruck and by all accounts he is a lot better than what the talk we here on here and by all accounts he is a vastly better prospect than what Pierce was.
    He might not cut it but at such a young age as a ruckman he still can't be written off.

    Anyway we are in great shape for the upcoming year and after the draft I found it interesting we kept our first round pick knowing Allison was not really a round 1 pick , however they might of wanted to stay in the first round so next year we can use our first round pick in the trade period for a player we have ear marked - they could be in Ben Kings ear or even someone like Merrett.
     
    L_W_P said:



    THIS is the best kid in the draft? Im sure he will develop well enough but geez... let's breakdown these 'highlights' shall we -

    1stQTR:

    Centre bounce. Misses a tackle, follows up for the handball, takes a bounce and fails to score anything from a shot on the run.

    Centre bounce. Avoids a tackle and feeds off a handball to a team-mate who is immediately under pressure.

    Half back. Stops and props instead of backing into the contest. Only puts up one hand. Makes himself available for the handball and proceeds to kick the ball down the line and out of bounds.

    2nd QTR:

    Half back. Takes and uncontested mark with 2 team-mates running in support. Takes the kick himself and turns it over to a loose opponent on the wing. Turnover 1

    Centre wing. Takes an easy handball and feeds to a running team-mate.

    Half forward. Lays a tackle causing a turnover. Gathers, gets caught, and fires off a handball himself.

    Centre half forward. Takes an uncontested mark. Never turns around to see if a team-mate is in a better spot. Set shot is offline and fails to make the distance.

    3rd QTR:

    Defensive wing. Takes the 'get out' handball from a team-mate and kicks on the 45 to CHF. Misses both team-mates and turns the ball over. Turnover 2.

    Centre square. Gathers a loose ball and handballs to a team-mate.

    Defensive wing. Is outmarked by a team-mate in a pack. JUH was front of the pack and did not touch the ball.

    Centre wing. Outbodied in a pack. Gathers the loose ball and avoids a tackle. Kicks to the HFF where an opponent takes an uncontested mark. Turnover 3.

    Defensive wing. Trails his opposite number to the ball. Gathers the loose ball and finds a team-mate with a short handball.

    Back pocket. Gathers the ball from a spilt marking attempt and gets away a handball to avoid being penalized for holding the ball.

    Back pocket. Drops an uncontested mark. Gets a lucky free kick for high contact. 50m as his opponent kicks the ball away. Kicks the ball from one HBF to the other. Team-mate is good enough to take a contested mark while 2 other team-mates 15m either side of him watch on.

    Half forward. Front of the pack and gets both hands to it but fails to hold on as the body pressure comes.

    4th QTR:

    Centre half back. Over runs the ball then misses 2 tackles.

    Centre wing. Takes a running handball and kicks to a team-mate who marks uncontested at half forward.

    Half forward. Genuine pack mark.

    Half back. Takes a short pass from a team mate. Plays on and kicks to the wing where an opponent marks uncontested. Turnover 4

    Centre square. Lays a tackle. Lucky not to be paid as high contact.
    Click to expand...

    Haha my god this post is ridiculous. You seriously breaking down an exhibition game where he was playing CHB to give all players on the field a fair go?

    would love to see your expert analysis break down his 5 goals from yesterday’s game in the VFL that he played in
     
    Skiddies said:
    Haha my god this post is ridiculous. You seriously breaking down an exhibition game where he was playing CHB to give all players on the field a fair go?

    would love to see your expert analysis break down his 5 goals from yesterday’s game in the VFL that he played in
    Click to expand...

    Welcome to the Saints board.

    Was just me pointing out that JUHhas been hyped up as the next Lance Franklin but in a game against the other top level kids in the draft, he looked well below average.

    Not at all claiming to be an expert. Simply pointing out the JUH isn't going to be the immediate panacea to what has been a pretty miserable forward 50 for the Dogs.

    I would argue though that Cox and Thilthorpe will be just as good and that Logan McDonald will be better than all of them.
     
    L_W_P said:
    Welcome to the Saints board.

    Was just me pointing out that JUHhas been hyped up as the next Lance Franklin but in a game against the other top level kids in the draft, he looked well below average.

    Not at all claiming to be an expert. Simply pointing out the JUH isn't going to be the immediate panacea to what has been a pretty miserable forward 50 for the Dogs.

    I would argue though that Cox and Thilthorpe will be just as good and that Logan McDonald will be better than all of them.
    Click to expand...

    Am I missing something here?

    Or did some Geelong supporter really just dig up an obscure post from 4 months ago on the St.Kilda board (on about page 18 of an 83 page thread that hadn't been posted in since last year), to claim some Western Bulldogs pleb is the next coming after 5 goals in a VFL practice game?

    Either this wins random post of the year, or JUH is feeling really really really insecure about not being picked ahead of Josh '2 kicks, 2 clangers in a final' Bruce
     
    Last edited:
    L_W_P said:
    Welcome to the Saints board.

    Was just me pointing out that JUHhas been hyped up as the next Lance Franklin but in a game against the other top level kids in the draft, he looked well below average.

    Not at all claiming to be an expert. Simply pointing out the JUH isn't going to be the immediate panacea to what has been a pretty miserable forward 50 for the Dogs.

    I would argue though that Cox and Thilthorpe will be just as good and that Logan McDonald will be better than all of them.
    Click to expand...
    Logan McDonald looks like an absolute gun. When he came on in the practice match, he instantly made Sydney's forward line look much stronger. And he dominated against men in the WAFL rather than other 17 year old kids.

    Sydney were lucky he fell to them, on top of another top 5 academy gift.
     
    L_W_P said:
    Welcome to the Saints board.

    Was just me pointing out that JUHhas been hyped up as the next Lance Franklin but in a game against the other top level kids in the draft, he looked well below average.

    Not at all claiming to be an expert. Simply pointing out the JUH isn't going to be the immediate panacea to what has been a pretty miserable forward 50 for the Dogs.

    I would argue though that Cox and Thilthorpe will be just as good and that Logan McDonald will be better than all of them.
    Click to expand...

    I appreciate the introduction. Somehow found myself browsing some old draft threads.And stumbled across your post about the exhibition game and your in-depth breakdown. What’s the reasoning for having Cox and Thilthorpe on par with J.U.H? And McDonald above him? How many games of the NAB league of his draft year from two years ago did you actually watch? Not having a go, just curious. Because there isn’t one recruiter in the country that had Cox anywhere near J.U.H. Thilthorpe and McDonald were always in contention for pick 2. But literally there wasn’t anyone claiming they were better than him. McDonald does look to have started well though. I’m sure playing senior footy for the entire 2020 season has helped him prepare for a round one debut at AFL level. Having an AFL ready frame helps too.

    Enclosed_Animal said:
    Am I missing something here?


    Either this wins random post of the year, or JUH is feeling really really really insecure about not being picked ahead of Josh '2 kicks, 2 clangers in a final' Bruce
    Click to expand...
    Yeah I think the dogs are taking the conservative approach with him early on. They are in a luxury position of having the ability to keep him in the VFL and let him develop without the spotlight shining on his every move. What’s the point of playing him early in a season where the quarters have been extending by 30 minutes a game and play him when he hasn’t played any footy in 18 months? What would the honest point be in throwing him to the wolves early in a 23 round season? Are you able to answer that for me?
     
    kernelT said:
    Absolute rort that the dogs ended up with him anyway... such a tenuous connection to some of these players, anyone good enough to be drafted inside the top 20 should go into the draft.
    Click to expand...
    They will starting from now I think. Then next year I don’t think a bid can be matched before pick 40.
     
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