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List Mgmt. 2020 Draft

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BrutThough said:
Bowey sounds like more of a good news story rather than someone who we should actually pick up.

Whats the appeal of Berry for you? To me, he is another pure inside mid with questionable foot skills - which we don't really need. Seems a bit like a younger version of what Dunstan is right now.
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I had no idea about any of the kids in this years draft but after a conversation with a mate of mine who is pretty knowledgeable in this area he told me that Berry would be the steal of the draft. I looked up what I could find online, the more I read and watched the more he reminded me of Scott West. Your not wrong with his questionable foot skills I think that is more under pressure then general field though and can be easily fixed. Berrys tackling ability and clearance work is very impressive he has a good tank doing a decent time in the 2km and his running vertical jump at the combine was equal highest at 94cm with Ford who is 7cm taller.
He is the perfect team player that is happy to play second fiddle in the midfield he'll put his head down extract the ball and get it to our outside runners.
I don't see a problem with having a younger Dunstan, Luke gives 100% every-time he walks out on the field winning more possessions then he should by trying harder then the other guy.
X factor is a term that is thrown around to much, over the last 20 years I can only think of a hand full of players that actually transferred their hyped junior form into a sustained career. The truly greats generally go top 10 so looking for someone with "x factor" at our pick is usually a folly (Spencer White style).
With Berry we know what we are going to get, at worst a reliable Dunstan and best maybe the next Coniglio.

a10d36e8196e8890c475ddc8be7a174c.gif
 
George said:
Why is it a stretch to call him a medium sized forward? He is the same height as Nathan Fyfe. He is most definitely a medium sized forward, as is Membrey. I don't think anyone actually reckons Josh Battle is a tall forward. As for McKernan - he is a replacement for Abbott and most likely won't play a game. You say we want two big targets in the forward line - Ford is 186cm. We may in fact want two big talls in the forward line but Ford is not that.

Our first pick should be used on best available but also part of the pick should be because we think he can make an impact on our side within the next two years.

Picking Ford and having him wait for four seasons for Membrey to retire is stupid IMO. Those players should be used on later picks.
Click to expand...

Ford is nothing like Skunk. The kid played mid/forward as a bottom ager & has missed the opportunity to play predominantly midfield thanks to this season being a write off.

Whether our top pick makes an impact in the next 2 years is irrelevant. Keep adding talent for a long & sustained run. If Eddie or Max Heath or whoever becomes an elite player in years 3 throughout 12, I couldn’t care less if he is running around at Sandy in 2022.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
pebblesofsand said:
I keep seeing these teams with Long at half back and I can't help thinking we still need to target an attacking hbf'er.
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Can’t find the football but flashes teasers with a high mark, a great tackle etc.

Interestingly the write up after the draft expressed some surprise about the pick and mentioned his lack of possessions at both under 18 and vfl level. Over 40 odd games with us he averages pretty much the same numbers
so it’s hard to see some dramatic improvement imo.

I‘m not convinced he’s best 22 and I think the same level of production from others would have had some posters melting. He’s also not a great user of the ball, he’s picked out opposition players 10 metres clear of a saints player on more than a few occasions running out of defence under no pressure.

I think he’s going to be under pressure this year if he can’t find more of the ball and he’s become a marked man so he’ll need to adjust his game. Like a few others it could be a make or break year for him and I’d definitely love to see us target an attacking hbf’er.
 
Last edited:
Yawkey way said:
Can’t find the football but flashes teasers with a high mark, a great tackle etc.

Interestingly the right up after the draft expressed some surprise about the pick and mentioned his lack of possessions at both under 18 and vfl level. Over 40 odd games with us he averages pretty much the same numbers
so it’s hard to see some dramatic improvement imo.

I‘m not convinced he’s best 22 and I think the same level of production from others would have had some posters melting. He’s also not a great user of the ball, he’s picked out opposition players 10 metres clear of a saints player on more than a few occasions running out of defence under no pressure.

I think he’s going to be under pressure this year if he can’t find more of the ball and he’s become a marked man so he’ll need to adjust his game. Like a few others it could be a make or break year for him and I’d definitely love to see us target an attacking hbf’er.
Click to expand...

Maybe watch Connolly a bit this year coming equal best kick in the club with Battle kicks it a long
way either foot.


Very happy with Long myself ...Carlton have paid mega bucks for his type.
 

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pebblesofsand said:
I keep seeing these teams with Long at half back and I can't help thinking we still need to target an attacking hbf'er.
Click to expand...
TBH, its the one thing I didn't like about our system - the lack of run from our back half.
We were still able to intercept really well, however our ball movement from the back half is based around kicking long to packs and taking the ascendency from there through our handball in contested situations.
We switched this up somewhat mid year trying to play tempo footy with short kicks (see Hawthorn), but we had zero overlap run a vast majority of the time.
Thats the next step for Coffield, Clark, Long (consistency wise), but even Paton and Howard can contribute (Howard actually does this quite well running straight lines through the middle).
We hardly ever had someone front and centre running past from a pack mark, which is what the good teams have (strong marks, handball to bloke in front looking the right way, continue with fluid motion).
Those young backmen can and should get aggressive on offense a lot more.
 
L_W_P said:
While I generally believe in getting rucks and defenders later in the draft, the more I read of Heath the more I like him with our first pick.

Give him a year watching Ryder live, being coached by both Ryder & Lade, testing himself against Marshall...

Seems like a solid plan.
Click to expand...

No matter how good rucks look, I find they are a big gamble to take early in a draft & seeing we are on the cusp of playing that last Saturday in September, we should be looking at players ready to go.
That’s why as most of you have probably worked out already I would take forward Jackson Callow with our first, speedy Sandringham Dragons midfielder Lachlan Carrigan with our next, would go for our super sleuth gringo2011 pick ruck Brayden Crossley & probably rookie another Sandringham Dragons player Max Holmes.
 
pebblesofsand said:
I keep seeing these teams with Long at half back and I can't help thinking we still need to target an attacking hbf'er.
Click to expand...
Thats where i see Coff being the run and carry with his pace , the kid is untapped
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
Ford is nothing like Skunk. The kid played mid/forward as a bottom ager & has missed the opportunity to play predominantly midfield thanks to this season being a write off.

Whether our top pick makes an impact in the next 2 years is irrelevant. Keep adding talent for a long & sustained run. If Eddie or Max Heath or whoever becomes an elite player in years 3 throughout 12, I couldn’t care less if he is running around at Sandy in 2022.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I never said he was like Membrey. I said he plays medium sized forward. Membrey is a medium sized forward. That is the extent of the comparison. He has nowhere to fit in our structure.

Significant said:
Had already posted this George.

I honestly don't think we need a mid when we already have Bytel and Byrnes waiting in the wings, and a plethora of players in the 22 who can rotate - Crouch, Steele, Ross, Jones, Hannerbery, Gresham, Clark, Higgins, Billings.

We have seen how a lack of flexibility has hurt Dunstans chances to find a spot in the side, and I could say the same about Bytel who looks every bit a big bodied inside rover and not much else.

The seduction of Ford is that he projects as that big body clearance mid whilst obviously having greater flexibility to play up forward with a marking and pressure game that reflects our system.

That's the biggest take away for me from his highlights, despite being largely different to the type of players we have brought into the front half over the past few years, his game appears to translate to ours perfectly (frontal pressure, very strong tackling, takes the game on through handball and long kicking, etc.).

The days of out and out mids being drafted are gone unless they are an exceptional talent taken high in the draft (Rowell, Walsh, Taranto, etc.). Hell even that next tier down (Anderson, Rozee, Stephenson, Clark, Cerra, etc.) have needed to ply their trade elsewhere over the first few years.

What you are asking for (drafted mid to come in 2nd year and play in our midfield from Pick 25+) is unrealistic, and we already have a superb talent waiting in the wings to do just that (Bytel).

Without the back injury, he is one I could have seen playing in a starting midfield role within the two years like you said. Trouble is, without the back injury he wouldn't be in the red, white and black.
Click to expand...
Nope, we need a mid, been smashed in there far too often last two seasons

CaptainRisky said:
Looks like George wants a midfielder more like it :oops:
Click to expand...
Were those my words or Cal Twomeys. I'm posting what Cal has said. It's not my opinion.

CaptainRisky said:
www.afl.com.au

Cal Twomey's 2020 Phantom Form Guide: September update

AFL.com.au's draft expert Callum Twomey ranks his best 25 players in this year's pool
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au

The bloke changes his mind every month
Click to expand...
That's usually what happens to form guides. Would be even more stupid of him not to change his opinion after watching more of these kids now wouldn't it?
 
Baker_for_PM said:
I had no idea about any of the kids in this years draft but after a conversation with a mate of mine who is pretty knowledgeable in this area he told me that Berry would be the steal of the draft. I looked up what I could find online, the more I read and watched the more he reminded me of Scott West. Your not wrong with his questionable foot skills I think that is more under pressure then general field though and can be easily fixed. Berrys tackling ability and clearance work is very impressive he has a good tank doing a decent time in the 2km and his running vertical jump at the combine was equal highest at 94cm with Ford who is 7cm taller.
He is the perfect team player that is happy to play second fiddle in the midfield he'll put his head down extract the ball and get it to our outside runners.
I don't see a problem with having a younger Dunstan, Luke gives 100% every-time he walks out on the field winning more possessions then he should by trying harder then the other guy.
X factor is a term that is thrown around to much, over the last 20 years I can only think of a hand full of players that actually transferred their hyped junior form into a sustained career. The truly greats generally go top 10 so looking for someone with "x factor" at our pick is usually a folly (Spencer White style).
With Berry we know what we are going to get, at worst a reliable Dunstan and best maybe the next Coniglio.

a10d36e8196e8890c475ddc8be7a174c.gif
Click to expand...
From what little footage I've watched, I'll have to disagree with your mate.

Berry is a solid footballer but is matured physically and able to out muscle the smaller kids around him, and has developed a style based on that ability which won't translate to AFL with the same effectiveness.

I haven't seen anything that suggests any particular talent above the normal, or avenues of development potential.

I think 25-35 is his range as a fairly safe bet but lower potential.
IMHO Bytel and Byrnes will both be better players.
 
George said:
I never said he was like Membrey. I said he plays medium sized forward. Membrey is a medium sized forward. That is the extent of the comparison. He has nowhere to fit in our structure.


Nope, we need a mid, been smashed in there far too often last two seasons


Were those my words or Cal Twomeys. I'm posting what Cal has said. It's not my opinion.


That's usually what happens to form guides. Would be even more stupid of him not to change his opinion after watching more of these kids now wouldn't it?
Click to expand...
And its not fact that he is right either , so he throws five darts and he is correct is he , we will see i guess
 
CaptainRisky said:
And its not fact that he is right either , so he throws five darts and he is correct is he , we will see i guess
Click to expand...
I don't really care if he is right or wrong. I just wanted to list some players he thinks we are keen on so others may like to check them out further.

I don't particularly care if I'm right or wrong either. If we draft Ford great, just think we should go a different route.
 
Yawkey way said:
Can’t find the football but flashes teasers with a high mark, a great tackle etc.

Interestingly the right up after the draft expressed some surprise about the pick and mentioned his lack of possessions at both under 18 and vfl level. Over 40 odd games with us he averages pretty much the same numbers
so it’s hard to see some dramatic improvement imo.

I‘m not convinced he’s best 22 and I think the same level of production from others would have had some posters melting. He’s also not a great user of the ball, he’s picked out opposition players 10 metres clear of a saints player on more than a few occasions running out of defence under no pressure.

I think he’s going to be under pressure this year if he can’t find more of the ball and he’s become a marked man so he’ll need to adjust his game. Like a few others it could be a make or break year for him and I’d definitely love to see us target an attacking hbf’er.
Click to expand...
I think there's more to it than the numbers.

Longy worries the sh1t out of the oppo forwards and does a lot of good work off the ball that gets no stats or external recognition.
Having all the same consistent reliable types like Paton doesn't lead to good outcomes and so it's about the mix and the balance.
Longy so far is just one of those low possession hi impact types.
It was his 1st year at HB and there was plenty enough to like.
As he refines his game and the backline improves it's synergy, we'll probably be happier that we've got him.
 
Grav said:
No matter how good rucks look, I find they are a big gamble to take early in a draft & seeing we are on the cusp of playing that last Saturday in September, we should be looking at players ready to go.
That’s why as most of you have probably worked out already I would take forward Jackson Callow with our first, speedy Sandringham Dragons midfielder Lachlan Carrigan with our next, would go for our super sleuth gringo2011 pick ruck Brayden Crossley & probably rookie another Sandringham Dragons player Max Holmes.
Click to expand...
I really don't think we're going to find a player that's ready to go in a top 4 team at pick 27.
The kind of player that might be able to step in would be a physically developed type that has a low ceiling, ie a depth type.

Crossley I like. Callow a maybe at best, but on the whole I completely disagree.
Draft for talent, trade for needs.
 

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George said:
I never said he was like Membrey. I said he plays medium sized forward. Membrey is a medium sized forward. That is the extent of the comparison. He has nowhere to fit in our structure.


Nope, we need a mid, been smashed in there far too often last two seasons


Were those my words or Cal Twomeys. I'm posting what Cal has said. It's not my opinion.


That's usually what happens to form guides. Would be even more stupid of him not to change his opinion after watching more of these kids now wouldn't it?
Click to expand...

He played medium sized forward as a bottom ager. Who's to say where he fits in due course. You could argue the same with pretty much any other role on the ground (where does he fit in the midfield at present... or in 2 years time?)

We need mids? Yes, undoubtedly. Would we take a Petracca type? Maybe Ford or another kid is that player. Looking at what we've already got in the midfield its is that explosive goal kicking mid that we lack.
 
Baker_for_PM said:
I had no idea about any of the kids in this years draft but after a conversation with a mate of mine who is pretty knowledgeable in this area he told me that Berry would be the steal of the draft. I looked up what I could find online, the more I read and watched the more he reminded me of Scott West. Your not wrong with his questionable foot skills I think that is more under pressure then general field though and can be easily fixed. Berrys tackling ability and clearance work is very impressive he has a good tank doing a decent time in the 2km and his running vertical jump at the combine was equal highest at 94cm with Ford who is 7cm taller.
He is the perfect team player that is happy to play second fiddle in the midfield he'll put his head down extract the ball and get it to our outside runners.
I don't see a problem with having a younger Dunstan, Luke gives 100% every-time he walks out on the field winning more possessions then he should by trying harder then the other guy.
X factor is a term that is thrown around to much, over the last 20 years I can only think of a hand full of players that actually transferred their hyped junior form into a sustained career. The truly greats generally go top 10 so looking for someone with "x factor" at our pick is usually a folly (Spencer White style).
With Berry we know what we are going to get, at worst a reliable Dunstan and best maybe the next Coniglio.

a10d36e8196e8890c475ddc8be7a174c.gif
Click to expand...
I think he is just too inside for what we need. We have taken two inside mids the last two drafts - in Bytel and Byrnes - so would be nice to compliment them with a more outside mid than get another inside type. I think we all have very high hopes on Bytel becoming a regular player and while Byrnes is still a bit unknown, he seemed to perform well in all the scratch matches this year so might end up being something as well.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
Ford is nothing like Skunk. The kid played mid/forward as a bottom ager & has missed the opportunity to play predominantly midfield thanks to this season being a write off.

Whether our top pick makes an impact in the next 2 years is irrelevant. Keep adding talent for a long & sustained run. If Eddie or Max Heath or whoever becomes an elite player in years 3 throughout 12, I couldn’t care less if he is running around at Sandy in 2022.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

100% this

reality is our pick 20 will turn out to be more like pick 25-27. we have a bunch of players that were taken higher than that in: Gresham, Billings, King, Higgins, Steele, Coffield, Clark, Ross, Crouch, Jones.

are we really going to be expecting whomever we select at Pick 25-27 to push any of those guys out straight away or within 2 years? ross is probably the only one, but Ross himself may find himself out of the side in 2022 not because of this draftee but because we may have another ready made mid lined up through FA or OOC.

whomever we select needs to get game time because he deserved it and is a better option than what we already have inside the 22. same deal for bytel/byrnes etc. the idea that he can do it inside 2 years is also unfair. imagine if we drafted steele right now. i doubt he would push into that side inside 2 years!

i don't think we have to concentrate on any position. just select best available. if its a ruck so be it.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
He played medium sized forward as a bottom ager. Who's to say where he fits in due course. You could argue the same with pretty much any other role on the ground (where does he fit in the midfield at present... or in 2 years time?)

We need mids? Yes, undoubtedly. Would we take a Petracca type? Maybe Ford or another kid is that player. Looking at what we've already got in the midfield its is that explosive goal kicking mid that we lack.
Click to expand...

do people really think Membrey plays as a medium sized forward?

Membrey in his junior career played as a genuine tall forward role. for us he's been the focal point along with King and Bruce previously. Membrey seems to switch between playing high as a roaming CHF and deep FF.

Membrey's height would tell you he is a medium sized forward if you just look at the stats sheet. but i think everyone on here is aware of his overhead game particularly his ability to clunk it off a two foot leap and how he plays much taller than he is.

also worth noting George thought ford was 186cm, which is the wrong player. Ford is not 186cm.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
He played medium sized forward as a bottom ager. Who's to say where he fits in due course. You could argue the same with pretty much any other role on the ground (where does he fit in the midfield at present... or in 2 years time?)

We need mids? Yes, undoubtedly. Would we take a Petracca type? Maybe Ford or another kid is that player. Looking at what we've already got in the midfield its is that explosive goal kicking mid that we lack.
Click to expand...
I think we score heavily enough as is. I think what we lack is a genuine outside mid. Someone like an Andrew Gaff but not as much wing
 

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Stewart66 said:
Maybe watch Connolly a bit this year coming equal best kick in the club with Battle kicks it a long
way either foot.


Very happy with Long myself ...Carlton have paid mega bucks for his type.
Click to expand...

Both get the ball a lot more and move the ball a lot more by run and carry and foot.
 
Max Holmes just on SEN, sounds like a huge Saints fan and been running with Brad Hill. Does anyone know what sort of range he's expected to go at. Was an athletics gun before choosing footy, mum was a Commonwealth games medalist and Olympian.
 
Stewart66 said:
Maybe watch Connolly a bit this year coming equal best kick in the club with Battle kicks it a long
way either foot.


Very happy with Long myself ...Carlton have paid mega bucks for his type.
Click to expand...
Zac Williams or Adam Saad and Ben Long aren't even remotely comparable sorry.
 
gringo2011 said:
Max Holmes just on SEN, sounds like a huge Saints fan and been running with Brad Hill. Does anyone know what sort of range he's expected to go at. Was an athletics gun before choosing footy, mum was a Commonwealth games medalist and Olympian.
Click to expand...
Draft Central has him in the late pick-rookie range
 
BrutThough said:
Draft Central has him in the late pick-rookie range
Click to expand...


They were saying he's a draft bolter....but hasn't played since about year 9?
 
gringo2011 said:
They were saying he's a draft bolter....but hasn't played since about year 9?
Click to expand...
I think he's a bolter in terms of coming from no where to even be a chance at being drafted in the first place. Only played 1 NAB league game last year but has a very good athletic profile which could interest a lot of clubs.

If he doesn't get drafted, he does sound like someone we could invite to train with us over the preseason to see if his athletic traits translate into football ability.
 
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