Banter 2020 Finals Discussion

Remove this Banner Ad

fnerd

Premiership Player
Aug 23, 2009
4,608
6,529
Castilly rock
AFL Club
Fremantle
A couple of side notes from the GF yesterday.

Leigh Matthews was the chairman of the Norm Smith panel & in his haste gave Nathan Broad 2 votes instead of Jayden Short, because he was rushed & got the names mixed up. Lucky for him Short wasn’t a vote behind Dusty.

Nick Vlastuin the Fox Sports rankings got a 4 out of 10. Not bad for 5 minutes work.
Seriously, when are media exec’s going to realise,the guys been going senile for years
 

Belnakor

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 10, 2005
20,084
11,462
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Nick Vlastuin the Fox Sports rankings got a 4 out of 10. Not bad for 5 minutes work.
same bloke gave Reiwoldt 7/10. seriously. 7/10.

Reiwoldt didn't touch the ball outside of a free kick until the 4th quarter.
 

Log in to remove this ad.

stax on the mull

Club Legend
Dec 26, 2010
2,960
3,987
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Matildas
The problem is even more passengers from Geelong:
Rohan yet again god awful in finals
Tuoy couldn’t get going.
Parfitt was at nearly every centre bounce and only had 7 disposals.
Kolodjashnij got dominated by Dusty.
Bews manages to get games as an absolute spud.
Stanley is a tall meathead that reminds me of Zac Clarke. Great in the air, but decision making is woeful.
Most of all, Dangerfield. What a mare that guy had.
Parfitt only had 51% match time. Think that injury to his thumb might have been the reason - you could see as soon as he came back onto the ground in the 1st quarter after getting some treatment that he aggravated it trying to tackle - but the commentary team were preoccupied with Gaz watch.

Along with those missed Geelong chances in the 2nd quarter, those first two lucky Richmond goals near the beginning of the 3rd quarter was where the game was won & lost. Riewoldt got a free in front after he initiated contact on Henderson, but the umps only saw the Henderson grab - and then Castagna snuck in a mongrel set shot punt that only ended up going not much more than head high through the goals when the Cats defenders were all covering the other goal post.

There should have been some alarm bells for Scott but I reckon when Miers got the next goal - he might have thought his game plan was still working out and kept Dangerfield in the forward half.
 
Last edited:

Belnakor

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 10, 2005
20,084
11,462
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Reiwoldt deserved 3/10. He was MIA when the game was up for grabs.

As for Lynch, same as Reiwoldt. Has a big body, but the heart of a pee wee.
they don't call him junk time jack for nothing.

The way he is carrying on now after they won is pretty obnoxious. He had absolutely nothing to do with them winning.
 

FreoRicci

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2011
14,948
13,882
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool FC, Washington Wizards
they don't call him junk time jack for nothing.

The way he is carrying on now after they won is pretty obnoxious. He had absolutely nothing to do with them winning.
Think Geelong’s defence was superb all game. Taylor was all over Lynch, Henderson was a glove on Jack. Not much else they could’ve done, given the crap their mids and forwards dished up.
 

FreoRicci

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2011
14,948
13,882
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool FC, Washington Wizards
Parfitt only had 51% match time. Think that injury to his thumb might have been the reason - you could see as soon as he came back onto the ground in the 1st quarter after getting some treatment that he aggravated it trying to tackle - but the commentary team were preoccupied with Gaz watch.

Along with those missed Geelong chances in the 2nd quarter, those first two lucky Richmond goals near the beginning of the 3rd quarter was where the game was won & lost. Riewoldt got a free in front after he initiated contact on Henderson, but the umps only saw the Henderson grab - and then Castagna snuck in a mongrel set shot punt that only ended up going not much more than head high through the goals when the Cats defenders were all covering the other goal post.

There should have been some alarm bells for Scott but I reckon when Miers got the next goal - he might have thought his game plan was still working out and kept Dangerfield in the forward half.
If Parfitt was indeed injured, then what decision making is that? Everyone knows when a team gets on a roll, you chuck in a big body. Ie Pavlich from forward Into the middle.
Not one inside 50 in the first 10-15 mins of third quarter and Dangerfield is all alone in the goal square. Exactly what opposition teams love. Out of sight, out of mind.
 

masai

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 18, 2002
10,973
6,917
A bay at Rotto
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
East Rottnest
If Parfitt was indeed injured, then what decision making is that? Everyone knows when a team gets on a roll, you chuck in a big body. Ie Pavlich from forward Into the middle.
Not one inside 50 in the first 10-15 mins of third quarter and Dangerfield is all alone in the goal square. Exactly what opposition teams love. Out of sight, out of mind.
As a reference point this year with Freo in relation to the “big boys” putting themselves in the thick of the action, when the red lights start flashing.

Mid season at Optus ( forgotten which game ), Freo had a lead but the opposition scored a quick 2 goals. At the next centre bounce, Fyfe & Mundy jog into the centre square, kick 2 whippersnappers out, and make it plain that “we is going hunting”.

Ball is bounced, Fyfe bullocks through with the ball, handballs to Mundy, who turns like a swivel chair, then jogs ( when does Mundy ever run !!! ) 10 metres and slams a six pointer.

Point being, leaders show leadership when required.

NB. Maybe a message came from JLo to Tendai, for this move to occur, but my point stills stands about leadership.
 

FreoRicci

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 22, 2011
14,948
13,882
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Liverpool FC, Washington Wizards
As a reference point this year with Freo in relation to the “big boys” putting themselves in the thick of the action, when the red lights start flashing.

Mid season at Optus ( forgotten which game ), Freo had a lead but the opposition scored a quick 2 goals. At the next centre bounce, Fyfe & Mundy jog into the centre square, kick 2 whippersnappers out, and make it plain that “we is going hunting”.

Ball is bounced, Fyfe bullocks through with the ball, handballs to Mundy, who turns like a swivel chair, then jogs ( when does Mundy ever run !!! ) 10 metres and slams a six pointer.

Point being, leaders show leadership when required.

NB. Maybe a message came from JLo to Tendai, for this move to occur, but my point stills stands about leadership.
Definitely. Felt Dangerfield didn’t want to exert himself and make it his own responsibility. Is he vice captain? Quite obvious he needed to be in the centre square/midfield in that third quarter.
 

E Shed

Fremantle Obsessive
Sep 10, 2006
18,376
27,393
Perth WA
AFL Club
Fremantle
Football is more enjoyable when you stop needing other teams to fail to feel good about yourself or hating on opposition players for perceived attitudes (just imagine what other team supporters feel watching Fyfe win 2 Brownlows).

Just enjoy it, watching someone like Martin achieve something thats never been done is incredible. For a youth with a biker/crim for a Dad who obviously came up pretty rough. Its a great story & kudos to RFC for supporting him to achieve everything he has.

And that people are downplaying Pickett's achievements? I work with people like Marlion every day and a lot of them, even the ones that got drafted and got every opportunity still end up in jail because they can't put their heads down at 18, 19, 20 and most of them don't get a second chance. He is a bona-fide story of hope and redemption.

I know I sound preachy but seriously, get some perspective people, its a game, entertainment. I remember sitting around this winter when there was no footy because of Covid and realising how much comfort it gives me and I'm so grateful we got as much footy as we did and a really hard fought Grand Final to finish it off. Kudos to the AFL for making it work. I loved it in the coldest months, driving home after work knowing there was footy on on a weeknight to look forward to when I got home.

It's been a crazy year but at least we got footy. And Freo are on the way back up!
 

Ron The Bear

Come on Sydney, come on!
Jul 4, 2006
33,333
33,049
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Although are Richmond especially short? I'd need to check the stats, but they're operating with a fair share of players with reasonable height: Lynch, Riewoldt, Balta, Nankervis, Astbury, Grimes even McIntosh and Broad.
Average height of 22, full season

Club2017Club2018Club2019Club2020
Geel190.6GWS189.6GWS188.8W.C.189.1
Bris189.0Bris188.9N.M.188.7N.M.189.0
GWS188.9Geel188.6Carl188.6Geel188.6
N.M.188.2Coll188.6Coll188.5Coll188.6
Carl188.0P.A.188.4Geel188.4Carl188.4
Adel187.9G.C.188.1P.A.188.3GWS188.4
Coll187.8W.C.187.7G.C.188.2P.A.188.2
W.C.187.7N.M.187.7Bris188.0Bris188.2
P.A.187.7Adel187.5W.C.187.9St.K187.9
St.K187.6Carl187.4Syd187.8Haw187.9
G.C.187.5Melb187.3St.K187.8G.C.187.6
Haw187.4St.K187.2Frem187.5Frem187.4
Syd187.4W.B.187.2Melb187.4Melb187.3
Melb187.2Frem186.9Haw187.2Adel187.2
Frem187.1Haw186.9Adel187.2W.B.187.2
W.B.187.0Syd186.4W.B.187.1Syd186.8
Ess186.6Ess186.2Ess186.4Ess186.5
Rich186.2Rich185.8Rich185.5Rich185.6
 
Last edited:

(Log in to remove this ad.)

prpl_jss

Premiership Player
Aug 16, 2009
4,101
6,551
AFL Club
Fremantle
Average height of 22, full season

Club2017Club2018Club2019Club2020
GWS190.1GWS189.8St.K189.8St.K189.3
Bris189.5Bris189.8GWS189.4N.M.189.2
Geel189.2N.M.189.4Bris189.3GWS189.1
Frem189.2Geel189.0W.C.189.2Carl188.9
N.M.188.7St.K188.7Syd189.1Bris188.9
G.C.188.6Carl188.5Geel188.9Coll188.9
St.K188.6W.B.188.5Carl188.6W.C.188.8
Adel188.6Syd188.3N.M.188.6Ess188.7
Coll188.5G.C.188.3Frem188.6Geel188.7
Carl188.4Ess188.1P.A.188.4Haw188.4
W.C.188.4Frem188.1Coll188.4P.A.188.2
Haw188.3Coll188.0G.C.188.4Syd188.2
P.A.188.3W.C.188.0Haw188.3Adel188.1
W.B.188.2Adel188.0Ess188.0G.C.188.1
Melb188.0P.A.188.0Adel188.0Melb187.5
Syd187.9Haw187.7W.B.187.4Frem187.2
Ess187.5Melb187.6Melb187.1W.B.186.9
Rich187.0Rich186.6Rich186.5Rich186.7
Not much of a difference between top and bottom, 3cm. Useless stats are useless without context. IE it's where the shorties are that matters.
 

arsesmart

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2018
1,156
1,826
AFL Club
Fremantle
Not much of a difference between top and bottom, 3cm. Useless stats are useless without context. IE it's where the shorties are that matters.
Yup, averages being what they are, only give a rough guide. Being averages across a large number of players would reduce the differences.

Although just having a quick glance at one section of the ground it looked like Tigers had a taller listed forward line on GF day.

No doubt having a bevy of quality small forwards can be lethal though.
 

Ron The Bear

Come on Sydney, come on!
Jul 4, 2006
33,333
33,049
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Although just having a quick glance at one section of the ground it looked like Tigers had a taller listed forward line on GF day.
GF was 185.5 v 188.8. Geelong's bigger bodies held sway in the first half, but the game was won on ground ball in the second half.

Variations come down to whether Richmond plays one or two rucks. Soldo would likely have played if he wasn't injured.

Richmond (four times) is the only team in the shortest 50% over the past four years to reach a prelim, apart from Melbourne in 2018 after beating a short Hawthorn team in the semi.

Richmond has won 0 from 4 in the past three years when the difference is over 3.5cm, so maybe there's such a thing as "too small".
 
Last edited:

arsesmart

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2018
1,156
1,826
AFL Club
Fremantle
GF was 185.5 v 188.8. Geelong's bigger bodies held sway in the first half, but the game was won on ground ball in the second half.

Variations come down to whether Richmond plays one or two rucks. Soldo would likely have played if he wasn't injured.

Richmond (four times) is the only team in the shortest 50% over the past four years to reach a prelim, apart from Melbourne in 2018 after beating a short Hawthorn team in the semi.

Richmond has won 0 from 4 in the past three years when the difference is over 3.5cm, so maybe there's such a thing as "too small".
That W/L vs height differential is a crucial comparison to give context to the average height stat. The Tigers have adjusted their gameplan to meet their list, rather than the other way round, classic design born of necessity. But because that's proved so effective they've adjusted their list management and selection choices to support their plan. Still, even with their swarming small forwards etc, they still structure up around a reasonable number of talls.
 

Ron The Bear

Come on Sydney, come on!
Jul 4, 2006
33,333
33,049
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
That W/L vs height differential is a crucial comparison to give context to the average height stat. The Tigers have adjusted their gameplan to meet their list, rather than the other way round, classic design born of necessity. But because that's proved so effective they've adjusted their list management and selection choices to support their plan. Still, even with their swarming small forwards etc, they still structure up around a reasonable number of talls.
Sure. Was just supporting the astute observation that Richmond is an unusually small team.

Smallest teams 4+ consecutive years:

1907-11 Ess (best placing 1st)
1956-59 Fitz (4th)
1967-73 Melb (7th)
1999-02 W.B. (6th)
2005-09 Haw (1st)
2012-15 Rich (1st)
 

arsesmart

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2018
1,156
1,826
AFL Club
Fremantle
Sure. Was just supporting the astute observation that Richmond is an unusually small team.

Smallest teams 4+ consecutive years:

1907-11 Ess (best placing 1st)
1956-59 Fitz (4th)
1967-73 Melb (7th)
1999-02 W.B. (6th)
2005-09 Haw (1st)
2012-15 Rich (1st)
Interesting how Freo's average dropped 1.4cm from 2019 to 2020. Some of that would be Hamling, Sandilands and (somewhat) Pearce absences. Although Taberner played a much higher percentage of games.
 

Ron The Bear

Come on Sydney, come on!
Jul 4, 2006
33,333
33,049
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Interesting how Freo's average dropped 1.4cm from 2019 to 2020. Some of that would be Hamling, Sandilands and (somewhat) Pearce absences. Although Taberner played a much higher percentage of games.
McCarthy also. Then Serong, Schultz, Frederick, Aish at the other end. It all adds up.
 

arsesmart

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2018
1,156
1,826
AFL Club
Fremantle
McCarthy also. Then Serong, Schultz, Frederick, Aish at the other end. It all adds up.
Yeah but you figure for those a lot comes out in the wash with the players they replaced, so Langdon (182), Hill (179), Matera (173), Switkowski (178) & Blakely (188) go out from 2019. For example, you had say Ed Langdon replaced by Bewley/Acres and Hill replaced by Aish, all equivalent or taller.
 

Ron The Bear

Come on Sydney, come on!
Jul 4, 2006
33,333
33,049
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Yeah but you figure for those a lot comes out in the wash with the players they replaced, so Langdon (182), Hill (179), Matera (173), Switkowski (178) & Blakely (188) go out from 2019. For example, you had say Ed Langdon replaced by Bewley/Acres and Hill replaced by Aish, all equivalent or taller.
Have double-checked & re-posted. Figures got scrambled somehow. Knew in advance that Richmond was the shortest so when I saw them on the bottom, thought the numbers were OK.
 

Purple_Turtle

Stockholm Syndrome
Oct 12, 2019
1,492
2,708
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
South Fremantle, Hull City
Not sure where else to post or if we need an actual trade discussion thread, but the Adam Saad thread right now is amazing. One of the Carlton users is declaring Essendon will get nothing for Saad except maybe a second rounder because Carlton will just go to the national draft and grab him with pick 27.
 

Remove this Banner Ad