2020 Formula One

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Oct 4, 2016
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one of the commentators mentioned last night ferrari is upbeat about next years car. any reason for that optimism?

the interminably long two-some with the mclaren drivers was soooo boring.
 

Neale4brownlow

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one of the commentators mentioned last night ferrari is upbeat about next years car. any reason for that optimism?

the interminably long two-some with the mclaren drivers was soooo boring.
They've got a new powerplant for 2021 so they should have improved straight-line speed which is what's cooked them all year.

2020 was a write-off as they were forced to start from scratch from 2019.

I won't expect the world from it, but any improvement will be a good for the spectacle not only from a ferrari sense, but haas/alfa also.
 

NSWCROW

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DId lewis pit AFTER he complained about his tyres not making he end or not ??


My point , how many fu**en times would that make it where he's said that and then MIRACULOUSLY made the end of the race ???
 

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RobbieGray17

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What makes F1 so boring to the point that F2 seems so much more interesting is that the races are too predictable and there rarely is ever a tightly battled contest.

Even though we had a new winner in the last race it was pretty well set in stone from the first lap. At least for P1,2, and 3 - 4,5.... Races in F1 are generally set from the starting laps. Qualifying is about the most exciting aspect.

All season it's the same

I think we've also learned how good the Mercedes is. Russell who is clearly better than his team mate went from the bottom to the top matching it with Bottas in Qualifying and outperforming him on raceday.

Lewis Hamilton is undeniably the most consistent driver in history but without that Mercedes he would have been nothing. You have three world champions this season unable to match it with Mercedes. I think we've definitively proven now that it's the car.



Mercedes



RedBull (Verstappen)


Racing Point
Mclaren
RedBull (Albon)
Renault



Ferarri





The rest
 

juice t

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Not having a lot of luck getting questions answere here

DId lewis pit AFTER he complained about his tyres not making he end or not ??


My point , how many fu**en times would that make it where he's said that and then MIRACULOUSLY made the end of the race ???
Nope
Because he would've lost 3rd to Albon
 

Neale4brownlow

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Not having a lot of luck getting questions answere here

DId lewis pit AFTER he complained about his tyres not making he end or not ??


My point , how many fu**en times would that make it where he's said that and then MIRACULOUSLY made the end of the race ???
Sorry I actually thought it was a rhetorical question with the punch-line along the lines of your final sentence here haha.

Eg. Lewis complains that tyres are gone or not going to make it. Then they make it easily.
 

Neale4brownlow

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What makes F1 so boring to the point that F2 seems so much more interesting is that the races are too predictable and there rarely is ever a tightly battled contest.

Even though we had a new winner in the last race it was pretty well set in stone from the first lap. At least for P1,2, and 3 - 4,5.... Races in F1 are generally set from the starting laps. Qualifying is about the most exciting aspect.

All season it's the same

I think we've also learned how good the Mercedes is. Russell who is clearly better than his team mate went from the bottom to the top matching it with Bottas in Qualifying and outperforming him on raceday.

Lewis Hamilton is undeniably the most consistent driver in history but without that Mercedes he would have been nothing. You have three world champions this season unable to match it with Mercedes. I think we've definitively proven now that it's the car.



Mercedes



RedBull (Verstappen)


Racing Point
Mclaren
RedBull (Albon)
Renault



Ferarri





The rest
To be fair, the issues with F1 as a spectacle have long since been acknowledged.

The rule changes should go a long way toward fixing it as a spectacle. That should have been as early as next year if not for covid. Next year will still have some minor aero tweaks to reduce the dirty air being generated so hopefully it'll take a small step in that regard in 2021.

Despite the particularly bland final race, I think this year as a whole has actually been really exciting and very enjoyable to watch (obviously ignoring the Merc dominance).

Next year may largely be copy/paste but there's still enough there to be excited for:

- Minor aero tweaks may reduce dirty air slightly and make following/passing cars easier;
- RedBull improving, can they start the year like they finished this one?
- Ferrari new power unit should improve not only their competitiveness but also haas/alfa;
- McLaren Mercedes Power unit. Improvements expected, can they start consistently getting podiums?
- Aston Martin a fresh paint job on the grid will be a breath of fresh air;
- Vetell/Alonso/Ricciardo/Sainz all finding new homes;
- Mick Schmuacher at Haas;
- A longer year and a big roster of circuits planned. Hopefully they translates to less practice sessions and straight into it. The tracks where they had limited prep/data were generally very exciting.
- Pirelli working on a more durable tyre compound so the tyres can last longer. Will be interesting to see how that pans out but hopefully it will give some teams the confidence to risk it a bit more (rather than what we had this year where it was best to just go long on mediums/hards 9 times out of 10).
 

NSWCROW

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Nope
Because he would've lost 3rd to Albon
Sorry I actually thought it was a rhetorical question with the punch-line along the lines of your final sentence here haha.

Eg. Lewis complains that tyres are gone or not going to make it. Then they make it easily.

So he did it again !
fu**en drama queen :rolleyes:

Yeah great driver but just a fu**en knob

And i get being ruthless in this chosen sport but geez.
I just want one " PULL YOUR fu**EN HEAD IN " shouted back at him when he snaps over the radio before he retires.
 

Simon_Nesbit

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PLEASE make the performance differences between tires types bigger. >1s per lap between each set as a minimum.

You want every track to be an "or" track for pitstops. 1 OR 2 stops, 2 OR 3 stops. Each better than the other.

Consider an average Track = 60 laps. Pitstop = 30s

Soft (3 stop) 90s in pits
Medium (2 stop) 60s in pits
Hard (1 stop) 30s in pits

0.5seconds between types makes sense, but that's ignoring the benefit of track position.

Whilst overtaking is so difficult, stretching the tire for less stops works best. We need to change that so they go out and RACE.
 

Forward Press

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PLEASE make the performance differences between tires types bigger. >1s per lap between each set as a minimum.

You want every track to be an "or" track for pitstops. 1 OR 2 stops, 2 OR 3 stops. Each better than the other.

Consider an average Track = 60 laps. Pitstop = 30s

Soft (3 stop) 90s in pits
Medium (2 stop) 60s in pits
Hard (1 stop) 30s in pits

0.5seconds between types makes sense, but that's ignoring the benefit of track position.

Whilst overtaking is so difficult, stretching the tire for less stops works best. We need to change that so they go out and RACE.
The problem with bigger time differences means that the softer compounds would naturally have to degrade far more rapidly (because stretching out the harder tyres for even longer would be crap viewing). And when that happens, the risk of tyres exploding in the middle of a race rapidly increases and that is unsafe.

Therefore, the way to address that would be to make overtaking easier if the difference in lap times is too small - and to do that would involve imposing regulations that reduce drag and the turbulent air on the car that wants to overtake - which the clever designers at each team would certainly push the limits of to make their car as difficult to overtake as possible.

Personally, I just think smaller cars are the way to go - inherently less drag, less turbulent air, and more room left on the track to squeeze past. Think someone did a comparison between Hamilton's Mercedes and Senna's McLaren and the former's was bigger by about 20%.
 

Simon_Nesbit

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The problem with bigger time differences means that the softer compounds would naturally have to degrade far more rapidly (because stretching out the harder tyres for even longer would be crap viewing). And when that happens, the risk of tyres exploding in the middle of a race rapidly increases and that is unsafe.

Therefore, the way to address that would be to make overtaking easier if the difference in lap times is too small - and to do that would involve imposing regulations that reduce drag and the turbulent air on the car that wants to overtake - which the clever designers at each team would certainly push the limits of to make their car as difficult to overtake as possible.

Personally, I just think smaller cars are the way to go - inherently less drag, less turbulent air, and more room left on the track to squeeze past. Think someone did a comparison between Hamilton's Mercedes and Senna's McLaren and the former's was bigger by about 20%.
Oh I agree, if they would only allow/encourage ground effects by significantly reducing front/rear wings, this would stop the turbulent air behind will see slipstreaming come back in.

Aerodynamic simplicity is coming, but in the interim, they can focus development on a tire that degrades in performance significantly - well before it becomes a burst risk.

No one is going to run old tires if it's costing them 2+ seconds per lap.

The thing is, what is F1? Is it a competition to get the fastest possible time? Qualifying and lap records suggest yes - but we celebrate driver/constructor championships (not overall race time records or average speeds); so is it the competition?

It's a balance, between competition/entertainment and mechanical/engineering superiority.
 

Neale4brownlow

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Oh I agree, if they would only allow/encourage ground effects by significantly reducing front/rear wings, this would stop the turbulent air behind will see slipstreaming come back in.

Aerodynamic simplicity is coming, but in the interim, they can focus development on a tire that degrades in performance significantly - well before it becomes a burst risk.

No one is going to run old tires if it's costing them 2+ seconds per lap.

The thing is, what is F1? Is it a competition to get the fastest possible time? Qualifying and lap records suggest yes - but we celebrate driver/constructor championships (not overall race time records or average speeds); so is it the competition?

It's a balance, between competition/entertainment and mechanical/engineering superiority.
Pretty hard to nail a tyre design to be fair. I think they do try this each year but there are so many variables.
Track temp, track surface, how hard the cornering is on the tyres etc.
Pretty hard to have one tyre for all.

Some tracks the soft dominates, in others it can't go 10 laps without deteriorating.
Teams generally find out the best tyre for each track through practise and go with that.
 

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DamoESP

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I watched the replay last night, and saw one of the post race interviews with HAM, where he acknowledged that the racing is boring because cars can't follow in dirty air, and how 2022 can't come fast enough with the new aero and hopefully that cars can finally follow each other in dirty air.

I'll give him some credit here, very self aware that the racing currently is boring and if you're in front chances are you will win the race baring any mistakes as cars just cannot follow closely on most tracks.
 

DamoESP

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You can't say that this guy did not give it his all for Ferrari....



EDIT: I just noticed that he had the lyrics prepared already in his glove, you can see the paper at 1:05
I'm not crying, you're crying 😭😭
 
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jabba5114

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You can't say that this guy did not give it his all for Ferrari....



EDIT: I just noticed that he had the lyrics prepared already in his glove, you can see the paper at 1:05
I'm not crying, you're crying
Very nice of him to prepare that. Who would of thought the young punk from red bull would mature so much hey.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 

Neale4brownlow

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Very nice of him to prepare that. Who would of thought the young punk from red bull would mature so much hey.

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Seems like excellent drivers only become champions once they've learnt how to lose.

I remember hating Alonso / Vettel during their championship days.

Both are infinitely more likeable in the latter halves of their careers.

Lewis has certainly mellowed more in his later stages of his career.

At some point arrogance and ego transitions to wisdom and experience.
 

Simon_Nesbit

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Seems like excellent drivers only become champions once they've learnt how to lose.

I remember hating Alonso / Vettel during their championship days.

Both are infinitely more likeable in the latter halves of their careers.

Lewis has certainly mellowed more in his later stages of his career.

At some point arrogance and ego transitions to wisdom and experience.
When did Hamilton learn how to lose? Often, he struggles to even win gracefully.

(agree with your point though - a little humility goes a long way)
 

Neale4brownlow

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When did Hamilton learn how to lose? Often, he struggles to even win gracefully.

(agree with your point though - a little humility goes a long way)
Yeah, probably why he's still a bit of a flog haha.
He'll no doubt retire before he ever has a taste of being in an uncompetitive car that you need to wrestle with for 2hrs only to finish 15th.
I think it'd be good for his image to continue on in a lower team for a year or two to help them with development eg. Kimi / Schumacher style.
But in reality he'll likely retire on top as soon as there's any risk of not being dominant (ie now or end of next year).

To his credit though, he could be a lot worse personality wise after being so dominant for so long. He does acknowledge the car and workers behind the scenes a lot.
 

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Daniel Ricciardo -

After flopping all year last season, this season there were no costly driving errors from him. He may've been crap last year, and suffered all the unreliability in 18, but it's forgotten about now.

14 points finishes in 17 races, including the last 11 in a row. The most points finishes from a Renault driver since their return.
Renault's best points haul in this current spell with 181pts, with 122 in 18. Ricciardo almost beat that himself with 119.
All this despite 3-4 less races than previous years.
A season comparable to his 3rds in 14 and 16.

All done without the added pressure and tension of the WC at stake. But another season where you could say he was the best driver of the season.
Had he stayed at RB, he may've have superficially done better (A couple of wins, more podiums and points), but it's likely he wouldn't have done any better than what he has. BUt he would've been diminished because Verstappen is RB no1 guy and Ricciardo's reputation would've suffered despite the bottom line probably being better.

With that sort of intuition, he's prolonged (and even saved) his F1 career long before things got out of control. Aside from doing the donkey work for Alonso, he's worked the long term game beautifully.
 

Neale4brownlow

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Daniel Ricciardo -

After flopping all year last season, this season there were no costly driving errors from him. He may've been crap last year, and suffered all the unreliability in 18, but it's forgotten about now.

14 points finishes in 17 races, including the last 11 in a row. The most points finishes from a Renault driver since their return.
Renault's best points haul in this current spell with 181pts, with 122 in 18. Ricciardo almost beat that himself with 119.
All this despite 3-4 less races than previous years.
A season comparable to his 3rds in 14 and 16.

All done without the added pressure and tension of the WC at stake. But another season where you could say he was the best driver of the season.
Had he stayed at RB, he may've have superficially done better (A couple of wins, more podiums and points), but it's likely he wouldn't have done any better than what he has. BUt he would've been diminished because Verstappen is RB no1 guy and Ricciardo's reputation would've suffered despite the bottom line probably being better.

With that sort of intuition, he's prolonged (and even saved) his F1 career long before things got out of control. Aside from doing the donkey work for Alonso, he's worked the long term game beautifully.
Agree.

But there'll always be an element of 'what if' if he stayed with RedBull.

He can draw solace from the fact that it was unlikely he'd get any wins with the redbull this year. Maybe a few extra 3rd's but in the grand scheme of things what's it matter if you're not a shot at winning.

But being numero uno at a team and getting paid mega, I don't think anyone can argue it wasn't a good decision for him personally and proffessionally.

Swapping to McLaren seemed unwise earlier in the year given Renault were trending upward. Jury is still out whether it was the right move. It's a bit of a guess as to who comes out better in the all important 2022.

I think for 2021 at least he'll be better off in the McLaren seat.
 

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