Discussion 2020 General AFL Discussion

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kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
4,826
14,896
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St Kilda
We aren't that far off that form. If not for some wayward goal kicking this past month, we could have easily won the 3 we lost. It is no consolation prize now, and if we won't make finals it will be bloody frustrating, but we have been doing a lot right to be in those good positions late in games when anything can happen.

When you think about it - in all but 2 games this season (Pies and Geelong), we have been in a position to win late in the 4th quarter. Even if we haven't got over the line, we have at least been giving ourselves a chance which is a huge improvement on last year.
We've really struggled to kick a winning score since round 10.

Our goals by round : 7, 14, 5, 15, 11, 11, 12, 12, 15, 12, 4, 10, 7, 7, 11, 6

We haven't lost when we've managed to kick 10 goals.

It feels like most sides are slowing down in terms of scoring as the season grinds with games every few days, would love Gresham and Carlisle back in the side to eek out another goal or two which would have been the difference in a few recent losses.
 

kernelT

Premiership Player
Aug 15, 2010
4,826
14,896
AFL Club
St Kilda
To me there was a 14 year window when we drafted and traded below par and that's why we spent close to a decade out of finals while Geelong have missed once in about 15 years. Geelong play kids so develop them, we drafted badly and the few good players drafted walked out knowing that we wouldn't play them. Trout's years we were trying to find backdoor deals to move up quicker and they usually went pear shaped.
It's a miracle we're still afloat to be honest.

From the 2007 - 2012 drafts we have two players left from 6 drafts - Ross #25 & Webster #42 fringe
34 picks down the toilet - 9, 13, 24, 24, 25, 32, 35, 37, 40, 42, 43, 43, 47, 48, 57, 59, 60, 60, 62, 64, 68, 70, 74, 75, 75, 76, 77, 83, 87, 90, 90, 93, 103, 111

2013 - we have 2 players left
Jack Billings #3
Dunstan #18 on the fringe

2014 - 2 left
McKenzie #22 scrap heap
Lonie #41 people want to move him on for free

2015 - 1 left
Gresham #18

Thankfully we have turned things around and found quite a few regular players from the next 3 drafts or we would be up for a merger, although 2019 & 2020 drafts could be very thin for us again with our trading frenzy… that's why we need to be pushing for finals hard with our mature talent grab.
 

BrutThough

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 2, 2010
9,011
33,531
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St Kilda
We've really struggled to kick a winning score since round 10.

Our goals by round : 7, 14, 5, 15, 11, 11, 12, 12, 15, 12, 4, 10, 7, 7, 11, 6

We haven't lost when we've managed to kick 10 goals.

It feels like most sides are slowing down in terms of scoring as the season grinds with games every few days, would love Gresham and Carlisle back in the side to eek out another goal or two which would have been the difference in a few recent losses.
The good part in those last 4 games is we were also about to keep our opponents to under 10 goals all those games too.
 

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SaintsSeptember

Hall of Famer
Mar 19, 2008
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To me there was a 14 year window when we drafted and traded below par and that's why we spent close to a decade out of finals while Geelong have missed once in about 15 years. Geelong play kids so develop them, we drafted badly and the few good players drafted walked out knowing that we wouldn't play them. Trout's years we were trying to find backdoor deals to move up quicker and they usually went pear shaped.
I remember years like 2009, the word coming out of the club was that the draft was so weak, and our picks so late, it was hardly worth worrying about.

We traded in Lovett, with non-existent due diligence. ( Like Carlisle years later, I'm still adverse to big trades ).
In that draft , if we hadn't got Lovett , we might have drafted Fyfe, Bastinac, Koby Stevens, or Carlisle, Duncan, or Gunston.
With the Ball trade ( wait what ??? , I'd love to play Poker against Ross Lyon ) and our second pick, instead of picking a name to make the Saints supporters feel fuzzy , we could have ended up with 2 or Gawn, Astbury, Sam Reid, Vardy, Stratten, Roberton.
Hell even Duryea was picked after we were messing around with Jessie Smith, Patterson. Hell we could have drafted Barlow, If we had Barlow we win the 2010 premiership simple as that , and we could have got him in the 2008 draft. Good call again Ross ( who proceeded to use his good judgement to invest his personal wealth in Shares ).
That was the year we had to Rookie list Fisher ( who had retired ) and Jarryd Allen , who would not play AFL again. Other teams grabbed rookies, Zac Toey, Podsiadly, Casboult, Wayde Skipper, and Barlow.

How the hell do the Hawks always go in with late picks and grab very serviceable players.
They got Stratton at 46, Duryea at 69 and went on in later drafts to get...
Puopolo at 66 Menangola as a Rookie, Brad Hill at 33, Kaiden Brand at 66, Ceglar as a Rookie, Howe at 31, Hardwick 44, Glass as a rookie, Morrison 74, Lewis at 76, Cousins Rookie. Worpel 45.
They play the list management like Kenny Rogers plays cards.
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
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its not remotely controversial .. if just plain idiotic

Finnis is the reason we are able to stay a float today ..

so extending Richo who had just got us to 9th is the worst contract in our history even though we had the trigger to remove him as we rightly did ...
Malcolm Blight says hello, firing GT cause he had a barny with the pres? how bout throwing away Moorabbin and sending us to Seaford cause the council wouldnt alow us to move the pokies 50m? signing Andrew Lovett... how about handling the school girl incident how bout not ever once adressing the stigma attached to our club about the Milne situation.. all these events were signs of poor leadership that nearly sunk our club in one way or the other.

under finnis we actually stand for something as a club. Finnis has a team around him who are the best in the industry, we dont have the big dollars of other clubs but we have some of the hardes and most driven and focused support staff in the comp.. try calling our membership team and talk to them put that against where we were 10 years ago put that up against what other clubs membership departments are like ...
we have under Finnis looked at what it is to make a club its about presence its about connecting to your fans your members and the community. its about making smart investments in value adding programs, its about re-engaging with our past and investing in our future.

10 years ago our past players association was one bloke who had a email list of past player who he occasionally contacted, we lost contact with so many past player it was almost criminal the disregarding of our past was terrible. now we are light years ahead in that space we still have room to go but it is Finnis who was a key driver in that ...

you gotta remember Finnis is the CEO not the footy department head his job is not about putting the team together or getting us the onfield wins his job is making us viable as a club so we have something to cheer to and about in 30 years time .. from that point looking where we were when Finnis joined to where we are today anyone who cant see Finnis has been a huge success for us is quiet bluntly an idiot ..
yeah Finnis aint the reason we are able to stay a float today. the reason why we are able to stay a float today is due to the AFL.

take away their line of credit this year or in previous years and we do not exist without hope that some benefactors step in.
 

SaintsSeptember

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That is the difference between that side and this one.

Harvey, Gerhig, Hamill, Peckett, Jones, Burke and Loewe as teachers.

We just dont have that level of qulaity senior players atm, Hanners, Ryder and Geary can only do so much.
We were incredibly unlucky with both Armitage and Steven. Armo is still only 32. Memory of him will be underrated IMO. I'd kill for someone with his 2013-2016 ability right now.
 

st_trav_ofWA

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 17, 2015
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yeah Finnis aint the reason we are able to stay a float today. the reason why we are able to stay a float today is due to the AFL.

take away their line of credit this year or in previous years and we do not exist without hope that some benefactors step in.
and how do you think that line of credit got negotiated ? the AFL didnt just give us a bucket of money for the hell of it .. the club needed to put togeter a buisness case that showed the AFL kicking in was going to be used in a way that was going to see improvment i dont think any of our previous managment team would have been able to put together the case and deliver on the items needed to secure the faith from the AFL to put in the investment into us ..
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
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and how do you think that line of credit got negotiated ? the AFL didnt just give us a bucket of money for the hell of it .. the club needed to put togeter a buisness case that showed the AFL kicking in was going to be used in a way that was going to see improvment i dont think any of our previous managment team would have been able to put together the case and deliver on the items needed to secure the faith from the AFL to put in the investment into us ..
finnis didn't magically talk to the AFL into giving us the money. like if finnis wasnt there the money wouldn't come!

the AFL gave us the money because the tv rights state they need to offer up 18 teams. the AFL wanted there to be 18 teams so there were 18 teams. they need the TV rights to stay afloat as a competition. there was never going to be a side "killed off" because of covid, because killing it off would cause more damage than keeping it afloat.

take out finnis and you get the exact same result! what occurred is much bigger than finnis!

worth noting the AFL was able to survive because of the docklands asset, which pre-dated finnis.
 

SaintsSeptember

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On the flip side, how many first rounders did the Hawks blow/burn? Their later picks had to get games and look good because their early drafting was pretty poor.
They burn some, but they always seem to get past that and move on.
They also traded a lot, that list above gives them pretty decent role players and they supplemented it with some great trades.

Josh Gibson - Pick 25
Shaun Burgoyne - Pick 9 ( compare to our Lovett Trade ).
David Hale - Pick 27
Gunston - Pick 24
Lake and 27 - Pick 21.
Spangher - Practically Nothing.
Frawley - Free agent.
McEvoy - Savage +18
O'Rourke - Pick 19.
Mitchell - Pick 14.
O'Meara - Pick 10 and future 2nd.
Impey - Pick 34
Scrimshaw - 3rd rounder
Windgard - Burton and 15.
Patton - Future 4th round pick.

That's not too shabby.
 

st_trav_ofWA

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 17, 2015
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finnis didn't magically talk to the AFL into giving us the money. like if finnis wasnt there the money wouldn't come!

the AFL gave us the money because the tv rights state they need to offer up 18 teams. the AFL wanted there to be 18 teams so there were 18 teams. they need the TV rights to stay afloat as a competition. there was never going to be a side "killed off" because of covid, because killing it off would cause more damage than keeping it afloat.

take out finnis and you get the exact same result! what occurred is much bigger than finnis!

worth noting the AFL was able to survive because of the docklands asset, which pre-dated finnis.
wait are we talking the money given this year or the money given 6 years ago ?
the fact is we went from a managment team who spent money like it was going to burn a hole in our pocket into a managment that wouldnt part with 2c's ... we were the problem child of the AFL no matter how they tried to help us we would just shoot ourselves in the foot... so ive been told our mismanagment was used as an example of how not to operated when the GWS and GCS came into existance
where we were the AFL were getting tired of us suckling the teet of help from them and never progressing forward at all and at some point they were going to wash their hands of us, then the AFL influenced us to bring in Finnis and suddenly things started to get done, we had some false starts and som hiccups along the way but we started utilising the AFL money in a more sustainable and positive way to secure our future. The investment to inbed ourselves in Moorabbin to lock in the grass roots channels and work with local, state and federal govenment to secure our place in the community suddenly makes us unmovable... no way Fraser or Netters gets that done and its that work that keeps the AFL invested in us we are no longer the problem child we are still the poor scruffy child but we are becoming more polished
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
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wait are we talking the money given this year or the money given 6 years ago ?
the fact is we went from a managment team who spent money like it was going to burn a hole in our pocket into a managment that wouldnt part with 2c's ... we were the problem child of the AFL no matter how they tried to help us we would just shoot ourselves in the foot... so ive been told our mismanagment was used as an example of how not to operated when the GWS and GCS came into existance
where we were the AFL were getting tired of us suckling the teet of help from them and never progressing forward at all and at some point they were going to wash their hands of us, then the AFL influenced us to bring in Finnis and suddenly things started to get done, we had some false starts and som hiccups along the way but we started utilising the AFL money in a more sustainable and positive way to secure our future. The investment to inbed ourselves in Moorabbin to lock in the grass roots channels and work with local, state and federal govenment to secure our place in the community suddenly makes us unmovable... no way Fraser or Netters gets that done and its that work that keeps the AFL invested in us we are no longer the problem child we are still the poor scruffy child but we are becoming more polished
both you said we wouldn't exist without Finnis, my point is we would exist with or without Finnis, because the AFL need us to exist

there's a $146 million reason why the AFL have that view. TV rights. thats before you look at gate/sponsorship/exposure/development

reality is our P&L still hasn't been sorted in the 6 years Finnis has been there. we still exist. despite all our issues, there has never been a moment where the AFL has gone "let's sunset the side and sink the cost". that's because there's no viable alternative to life without st kilda.

lets suppose we are utterly inept. say we were turning a million dollar loss every year. would we still exist? of course! because the extra side generates more money than it costs.

if you do find your self in a position as a league where you need to rationalise cost its a bigger problem than shitty old mismanaged st kilda so what ends up happening is you implement league wide cost savings which means shitty old mismanaged st kilda just has less money to work with like the rest of the league. which means they reduce their footprint. they still might post losses. they still might be mismanaged. but they still deliver the league a positive outcome for being part of it. it still beats the idea of starting another "greenfields" side where you have to generate new support.

it sure would be interestig to here if st kilda were still used as the example of not to operate. despite them using us as an example, GC ended up being a disaster. in fact they didn't really use as an example that well given their issues with their training and HQ. which the AFL didn't resolve until half a decade later!
 
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sauce_head

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 24, 2006
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Here's a lonnnng post that I wrote ages ago, after extensive research and then just shelved, beacuse in the end each change would change our future too much to be a useful roadmap and in the end, hindsight is pretty useless; I present it to BigFooty unedited now just as a reference point, so excuse me if it contains errors, or ideas that have since been proven dumb.

...................................................................................................................................................................................

2000 - NET INS: Callahan, Capuano, Gehrig, Hamill, Lawrence, Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Gale, Powell, Voss, Oliver, Berry

Can’t complain really, got so many guns in the trade and a few very handy draftees, including a youngster called Riewoldt. Mark Gale the only obvious bust, exchange for Graham Johncock. If you wanted to be really ruthless you’d leave Kosi and pick up one of Alan Didak, Daniel Kerr, Guy Richards or Daniel Cross. Might have asked Freo for James Clement or Jess Sinclair for Matt Carr, instead of Craig Callahan. Get Darren Jolly and Max Rooke instead of Chris Oliver and Justin Berry

Out: Callahan, Gale, Oliver, Berry
In: Clement, Johncock, Jolly, Rooke


2001 - NET INS: Black, Knobel, Ball, X Clarke, Dal Santo, Maguire, Montagna, Houlihan, Dicketts, B Schwarze, Chris Jones

The original superdraft, featuring 21 premiership players, 5 norm smith winners and 5 brownlow winners (none of whom played for the us at the time of winning honours) Exchange Luke Ball for Chris Judd and Josh Houlihan for Brian Lake. Keep the pick 45 we used on Trent Knobel and get Dane Swan in the draft. Ditch all the 3 rookies and get Quinten Lynch, Matt Boyd and Nathan Bock.

Out: Ball, Houlihan, Knobel, Dicketts, B Schwarze, Jones
In: Judd, Lake, Swan, Q Lynch, M Boyd, Bock


2002 - NET INS: Brooks, Penny, Goddard, Ferguson, L Fisher, Stephen Powell, A Murray, Barham.
A bit of talent there and we got the main pick right, the trade for Penny worked plus picked up Stephen Powell in the PSD, and Murray as a rookie, the rest was gak. To start with, forget with Barry Brooks, get Byron Pickett from Port instead. Instead of Ferguson and Fisher, get Kade Simpson and Nick Malceski. Use one of the 5 picks we passed on to pick up Brad Sewell.

Out: Brooks, M Ferguson, L Fisher
In: B Pickett, K Simpson, Malceski, Sewell


2003 - NET INS: Gram, Guerra, R Clarke, S Fisher, Pfitzner, Stone

An ok draft, and we found a gem in Sam Fisher. I liked Raph Clarke as a player, but to satisfy the many fans who didn’t, how about David Mundy instead? We got our trades spot on. Get a couple of rookies instead of Pfitzner and Stone; Embley and Josh Thurgood.

Out: R Clarke, Pfitzner, Stone
In: Mundy, Embley, Thurgood


2004 - NET INS: Fiora, McQualter, Ackland, McGough, Gwilt, Mullins, McDonnell

An average draft with a few all-time guns at the top end. The best player we got out of the whole off season was our famed Welsh-Fijian smokie Jimmy Gwilt. I’d have asked for one of Richmond’s 4 picks inside the top 20 for Heath Black instead of Fiora. Would the Tigers have given us Pick 4 for our PIck 17 plus Troy Simmons, (who Freo gave up to get Heath Black), bearing in mind they also held pick 1, 12 16 and 20? That would have got us Buddy. If not, I suppose we could have got Nathan Van Berlo, Mark LeCras, and Matt Egan instead of McQualter, Ackland and McGough, plus Danyle Pearce and Heath Grundy instead of Mullins and McDonnell.

Out: Fiora, McQualter, Ackland, McGough, Mullins, McDonnell
In: Franklin/Van Berlo, LeCras, Egan, D Pearce, H Grundy


2005 - NET INS: Watts, Gilbert, Rix, Raymond, Sweeney, Corr

God, urgh! Pick 17 for our CEO’s son in this pretty good draft with a great top end. Most of the top 15 are still playing and at least 4 of that 15 have captained AFL clubs. I would have not drafted Gilbo and wrapped up that pick 33 with the Watts 17 to get into the top 10. Let’s be conservative and say that the Lions gave us pick 9 for that, I’d take Nathan Jones with that pick. As for the rest of the dross, I’ll take Matt Stokes instead of Rix, the rest? There wasn’t anything much better around. Take Matt Priddis instead of Cathal Corr in the rookie draft. Maybe I would have also taken Keiren Jack instead of re-rookie-ying Dylan Pfitzer.

Out: Watts, Rix, Corr, Pfitzner
In: N Jones, M Stokes, Priddis, K Jack


2006 - NET INS: Birss, Gardiner, Armitage, Howard, Allen, Clint Jones, Van Rheenen, Eddy, Wall, Geary, Attard

We did a great trade getting Gardiner and change for a 3rd round pick, then blew the change on Shane Birss.
It was an ok draft with a few guns like Joel Selwood, Boak, Ben Reid, James Frawley etc up top and Goldstein, Brad Dick, Lindsay Thomas and Robbie Grey later. I’d have taken Jack Riewoldt instead of Armo, Houli instead of Howard, Robbie Grey instead of Shane Birss, Goldsack for Jarryd Allen. We did ok with a couple of rookies but I would have taken Sam Gibson instead of Van Rheenen.

Out: Armitage, Howard, Birss, Allen, Van Rheenen
In: J Riewoldt, Houli, R Grey, Goldsack, S Gibson


2007 - NET INS: Schneider, Dempster, King, Gardiner, McEvoy, Steven, Gehrig, Connors, Chivers, Miles, Haretuku.

Brilliant trade effort which still amazes me. Dempster and Schneids for pick 26, Steven King and steak knives Gardiner for pick 90! I might be tempted to take Cyril Rioli instead of McEvoy, rather than Dangerfield, but Dangerfield’s consistency might sway me. Maybe I would have taken Taylor Walker instead of Khan Haretuku on the scholarship if possible. Wonaeamirrii and Mumford for Chivers and Miles.

Out: McEvoy, Haretuku, Chivers, Miles
In: Rioli, Walker, Wonaemirri, Mumford


2008 - NET INS: Ray, Lynch, Stanley, Heyne, A Smith, Cahill, Begley, Dawson, Simpkin, Gaertner, Tungaltulum, McGarry, McGrath

Decent trade, and fairly decent even draft with gems throughout. Zac Dawson a decent rookie pick. You’d keep Lynch and be nicer to him. Instead of the rest, grab Neville Jetta and Michael Walters and I guess keep the rest, not much any better. For the rookies get Van Berlo instead of Gaertner, Broughton instead of Tungaltulum, Matt Suckling instead of McGarry.

Out: Stanley, Heyne, Gaertner, Tungaltulum, McGarry
In: N Jetta, Walters, Van Berlo, Broughton, Suckling


2009 - NET INS: Lovett, Peake, Nicholas WInmar, J.W. Smith, Pattison, Johnson, Hutchings, Archer, Walsh

Similar to the previous year, an ok even draft in the top half. One trade which blew up horribly in our face and another ok one. I’d take Nate Fyfe with the pick 16 that Essendon stole from us for Andy Lovett. Otherwise get Max Gawn instead of Nicky Winmar’s second cousin. Maybe Taylor Duryea instead of Adam Pattison. Nothing much on after that. Get Crameri instead of Archer.

Out: Lovett, Winmar, Pattison, Archer
In: Fyfe, Gawn, Duryea, Crameri


2010 - NET INS: Cripps, Crocker, Ledger, Siposs, Gamble, Polo, Curren, Andreoli, J Ferguson.

The Welcome to AFL, Gold Coast Draft with the expansion club taking 8 inside the first 13 draft picks, but the draft still had enough of an even spread of talent to come away smiling despite that. We didn’t do any trades, but we did use a couple of picks up on second hand discards Gamble and Polo in a cheap effort to top up our still globally decent list without blowing our salary cap. There were no other delistees that were any better so I’ll leave that. We also re-rookied Rob Eddy while letting Mark Hutchings go back west, so I’d reverse that. Instead of Cripps, Crocker, Ledger and Siposs, I’d pick Luke Parker, Tom McDonald, Jarryd Lyons and Paul Seedsman respectively. I’d also take Jason Johannisen and Jeremy McGovern instead of Curren and Andreoli. Jackson Ferguson was on a NSW scholarship, you could hypothetically take Hawthorn old boy Chris Langford’s son Will.

Out: Eddy, Cripps, Crocker, Ledger, Siposs, Curren, Andreoli, J Ferguson
In: Hutchings, L Parker, T McDonald, J Lyons, Seedsman, Johannisen, J McGovern, W Langford


2011- NET INS: Saad, Milera, Ross, Markworth, Newnes, Webster, Lever, Wilkes/Maister, Dunell, Shenton, Staley, Minchington.

The Welcome to AFL, GWS Draft with the expansion club taking 11 inside the first 14 draft picks, but it’s a pretty deep draft with fairly good quality, if not much top-draw talent. We gave up pick 20 to get Milera and Saad but gained pick 25 and the best option between those two picks was Henry Schade, so I’d probably leave that trade as is and maybe pick up Brad Hill instead of Seb Ross. Then I’d get Brendan Ah Chee instead of Markworth, Lachie Neale for Jack Newnes, Cam Ellis-Yolmen for Jay Lever and Cam Sutcliffe for Beau Wilkes/Maister. Webster stays. I’d pick up Jack Crisp, Mark Blicavs and Jack Redpath instead of Dunell, Shenton and Staley. Meatball was the best pick at that stage so he stays.

Out: (Ross) Markworth, (Newnes), Lever, Wilkes, Dunell, Shenton, Staley
In: (B Hill) B Ah Chee, (Neale), Ellis-Yolmen, Sutcliffe, Crisp, Blicavs, Redpath


2012- NET INS: Roberton, Lee, Hickey, Dennis-Lane, Wright, White, Murdoch, Saunders, Pierce.

It was a pretty ordinary draft, so we tried to be smart and embarked upon a pretty complicated mess of trades ended up with us getting Lee, Wright, Murdoch and Saunders for Pick 12. Forget that, just grab Brodie Grundy instead. Then we gave away our compo pick for BJ, plus, 36 and 55 to get Tom Hickey, TDL, and Spencer White. Believe it or not, there’s no one that I’d seriously be interested between pick 13 and the White pick, so I suppose I’d still do that trade and instead of getting Spencer White and TDL, I’d pick Lachie Hunter and Rory Atkins. Keep Pierce. The only thing we absolutely nailed was the FA acquisition of Roberton. I’d probably use the rookie pick we passed on and pick up Zac Williams.

Out: Lee, Wright, Murdoch, Saunders, White, Dennis-Lane
In: B Grundy, L Hunter, Atkins, Z Williams


2013 - NET INS: Delaney, Longer, Bruce, Savage, Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Templeton, Weller, Holmes.

Lots of quality throughout that list and you can say we did pretty well without absolutely nailing it. The trades were pretty underwhelming, and frankly I’d be tempted to keep the DalSanto compo pick 25 and pick 41 instead of picking up Josh Bruce and Billy Longer. I’d use those picks and grab Zach Merrett and Ben Brown. Instead of Billings, you could get either of proven guns Bont, P Crippps, as well as others. I like Billings, but Cripps is looking like a safe bet at this stage. Don’t have a problem with the McEvoy pick which gave us Savage and Dunstan, though I’d pick Matt Crouch instead of Dunny. Would you keep Acres, or would you keep the two picks we traded and go for someone like Hartung, McStay, Lemmens, Lew Taylor, Nankervis, Jake Kolodjashnij, Barrass, Riley Knight, Fantasia, Sicily, or Jayden Hunt, plus one of Honeychurch, Tom Langdon, Sam Lloyd, Amon or Tabener? I’d be tempted to keep Acres and hope he is not another Spencer White. Apart from switching Eli for Charlie Cameron, I’d leave the rookies be.

Out: Longer, Bruce, (Billings), Dunstan, Templeton
In: Z Merrett, B Brown, (P Cripps), M Crouch, C Cameron


2014 - NET INS: Membrey, McCartin, Goddard, McKenzie, Lonie, Sinclair, Payne.

We did alright getting FA Membrey for nothing and picking up Sinclair in the rookie draft, but otherwise so far it’s looking pretty grim. The draft was pretty top heavy with a few good gets sprinkled throughout. I’d get DeGoey, Touk Miller, Mitch McGovern and Caleb Daniel instead of McCartin, Goddard, McKenzie and Lonie. In the rookie list, I’d grab Kane Lambert in the place of Brenton Payne and maybe draft Adam Saad instead of redrafting Ahmed Saad.

Out: McCartin, Goddard, McKenzie, Leonie, Payne, Ahmed Saad
In: DeGoey, Miller, M McGovern, C Daniel, K Lambert, Adam Saad


2015 - NET INS: Freeman, Carlisle, Gresham, White, Rice, O’Kearney, Coughlan

A pretty even draft, a couple of great trades and some solid picks. I’d take Tom Papley instead of Nick O’Kearney and James Parsons for Nick Coughlan, and leave the rest alone.

Out: O’Kearney, Coughlan
In: Papley, J Parsons


2016 - NET INS: Steele, Stevens, N Brown, Long, Battle, E Phillips, Marshall, Connellan, Joyce.

We gave up pick 10 in this fairly top heavy draft to get pick 7 in the next, but Hunter Clark looks awesome, so I’ll leave that. No problems with Long, Battle, Phillips or Freeman, who took our original second round pick. I might hold onto pick 50 instead of trading it out.


2017- NET INS: Austin, Clark, Coffield, Clavarino, Paton, Langlands,

Year - Draft Quality - Saints FA/Trade Yield - Saints Draft Yield - Saints Rookie Yield
2000 - C - A - B - E
2001 - A - B - B - E
2002 - C - B - C - D
2003 - C - A - C - E
2004 - C - D - D - E
2005 - B - E - D - E
2006 - C - B - D - C
2007 - B - A - B - E
2008 - C - C - D - D
2009 - C - D - E - D
2010 - C - X - E - E
2011 - C - B - C - D
2012 - D - C - E - X
2013 - B - C - B - B
2014 - C - A - D - B
2015 - B - A - A - E
2016 -
2017 -
2018 - ?
Wow great post!
 

Michael Scarn

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Jul 4, 2008
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Man City, Victory
both you said we wouldn't exist without Finnis, my point is we would exist with or without Finnis, because the AFL need us to exist

there's a $146 million reason why the AFL have that view. TV rights. thats before you look at gate/sponsorship/exposure/development

reality is our P&L still hasn't been sorted in the 6 years Finnis has been there. we still exist. despite all our issues, there has never been a moment where the AFL has gone "let's sunset the side and sink the cost". that's because there's no viable alternative to life without st kilda.

lets suppose we are utterly inept. say we were turning a million dollar loss every year. would we still exist? of course! because the extra side generates more money than it costs.

if you do find your self in a position as a league where you need to rationalise cost its a bigger problem than shitty old mismanaged st kilda so what ends up happening is you implement league wide cost savings which means shitty old mismanaged st kilda just has less money to work with like the rest of the league. which means they reduce their footprint. they still might post losses. they still might be mismanaged. but they still deliver the league a positive outcome for being part of it. it still beats the idea of starting another "greenfields" side where you have to generate new support.

it sure would be interestig to here if st kilda were still used as the example of not to operate. despite them using us as an example, GC ended up being a disaster. in fact they didn't really use as an example that well given their issues with their training and HQ. which the AFL didn't resolve until half a decade later!
Sorry but it's completely naive to think we will exist as a club no matter what we do.

The AFL have kept us afloat, yes, but in the future they would secretly love for there not to be so many teams in Melbourne - if they are able to take 2 sinking clubs out of Melbourne and put new teams in Tasmania, Adelaide, Perth, they will jump at the chance.
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
20,430
39,821
AFL Club
St Kilda
Sorry but it's completely naive to think we will exist as a club no matter what we do.

The AFL have kept us afloat, yes, but in the future they would secretly love for there not to be so many teams in Melbourne - if they are able to take 2 sinking clubs out of Melbourne and put new teams in Tasmania, Adelaide, Perth, they will jump at the chance.
I'm talking about right now and for the next tv rights deal which was just renewed.

Beyond that who knows. We do need to get our P&L and business model fixed though. Invested in revenue streams outside of footy and reduce our debt.

i think secretly the AFL wants more teams and to keep the status quo in victoria. if the AFL did want teams to relocate, they would have shafted us by now. instead they've kept us alive and in victoria.
 
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st_trav_ofWA

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 17, 2015
5,387
14,467
AFL Club
St Kilda
both you said we wouldn't exist without Finnis, my point is we would exist with or without Finnis, because the AFL need us to exist

there's a $146 million reason why the AFL have that view. TV rights. thats before you look at gate/sponsorship/exposure/development

reality is our P&L still hasn't been sorted in the 6 years Finnis has been there. we still exist. despite all our issues, there has never been a moment where the AFL has gone "let's sunset the side and sink the cost". that's because there's no viable alternative to life without st kilda.

lets suppose we are utterly inept. say we were turning a million dollar loss every year. would we still exist? of course! because the extra side generates more money than it costs.

if you do find your self in a position as a league where you need to rationalise cost its a bigger problem than shitty old mismanaged st kilda so what ends up happening is you implement league wide cost savings which means shitty old mismanaged st kilda just has less money to work with like the rest of the league. which means they reduce their footprint. they still might post losses. they still might be mismanaged. but they still deliver the league a positive outcome for being part of it. it still beats the idea of starting another "greenfields" side where you have to generate new support.

it sure would be interestig to here if st kilda were still used as the example of not to operate. despite them using us as an example, GC ended up being a disaster. in fact they didn't really use as an example that well given their issues with their training and HQ. which the AFL didn't resolve until half a decade later!
yes the AFL do need the extra team to maintain the TV agreements but at the same time the AFL have viable expansion ambitions they wish to fill (also to build on the TV revenue).
you talk about the P&L of the club under Finnis and yes i will give you on paper the club still looks in bad shape due to our debt but unlike previous leadership our debt is somewhat offset by the fact that we now have value adding assets our liabilities are not just bottomless pits of flushed away dollars anymore we are in the first time since i have been involved with the club making good use of the money contributing to our debt into items that will eventually be revenue streams to our club. this is not something that in one year will change our fortunes but will slowly see or position improve .... i cannot for the life of me see any of the previous leaderships being able to deliver that .
is Finnis the michael jordan of CEO's? i dont think so but from where we have been previousy we are a billion lightyears ahead of what we were under Fraser and Netters so from that alone shows he is doing a great job for us (partly because the incompetent that came before him)
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
20,430
39,821
AFL Club
St Kilda
yes the AFL do need the extra team to maintain the TV agreements but at the same time the AFL have viable expansion ambitions they wish to fill (also to build on the TV revenue).
you talk about the P&L of the club under Finnis and yes i will give you on paper the club still looks in bad shape due to our debt but unlike previous leadership our debt is somewhat offset by the fact that we now have value adding assets our liabilities are not just bottomless pits of flushed away dollars anymore we are in the first time since i have been involved with the club making good use of the money contributing to our debt into items that will eventually be revenue streams to our club. this is not something that in one year will change our fortunes but will slowly see or position improve .... i cannot for the life of me see any of the previous leaderships being able to deliver that .
is Finnis the michael jordan of CEO's? i dont think so but from where we have been previousy we are a billion lightyears ahead of what we were under Fraser and Netters so from that alone shows he is doing a great job for us (partly because the incompetent that came before him)
totally, i just don't agree with the idea that without him we wouldn't be a float.

i think things have improved off-field. it's not massive, but it's moving in the right direction. still some very big concerns.

netters was a fu**in walking disaster.
 

st_trav_ofWA

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 17, 2015
5,387
14,467
AFL Club
St Kilda
totally, i just don't agree with the idea that without him we wouldn't be a float.

i think things have improved off-field. it's not massive, but it's moving in the right direction. still some very big concerns.

netters was a fu**in walking disaster.
i would take netters ove Fraser any day of the week ... Archie Fraser nearly ripped the soul out of our club ...
admitting seaford was a mistake and not pouring millions into polishing that turd was one of the best moves finnis could have ever made ... i remember doing a tour of Seaford when we first moved in and Archie being all impressed by the plunge pool they installed, i looked at it and thought about the pool i have at home and relised i had bigger and better for my personal use than a professional football club were using for 40 top class sportsmen..
 

StCicatriz

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 3, 2016
20,430
39,821
AFL Club
St Kilda
i would take netters ove Fraser any day of the week ... Archie Fraser nearly ripped the soul out of our club ...
admitting seaford was a mistake and not pouring millions into polishing that turd was one of the best moves finnis could have ever made ... i remember doing a tour of Seaford when we first moved in and Archie being all impressed by the plunge pool they installed, i looked at it and thought about the pool i have at home and relised i had bigger and better for my personal use than a professional football club were using for 40 top class sportsmen..
geeze hahahaha
 

George

Moderator
Aug 17, 2015
20,034
64,837
Victoria
AFL Club
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i would take netters ove Fraser any day of the week ... Archie Fraser nearly ripped the soul out of our club ...
admitting seaford was a mistake and not pouring millions into polishing that turd was one of the best moves finnis could have ever made ... i remember doing a tour of Seaford when we first moved in and Archie being all impressed by the plunge pool they installed, i looked at it and thought about the pool i have at home and relised i had bigger and better for my personal use than a professional football club were using for 40 top class sportsmen..
Not to mention it was in the backstreets of a suburb in the outer east that nobody ever wanted to visit. I remember my first time there it took me two hours to find the place. Best thing we've ever done is move back to Moorabbin.
 

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