Discussion 2020 General AFL Discussion

[George]

Actually it just means you don't rate the ratings.

You don't either haha

 

[StCicatriz]

So the third line is "we're the team that never lets you down".

Methinks the Blues should consider a new club song.

Maybe they no longer are singing to their fans hahahahha

 

[Premium]

He is going very well. Steele is going better. Even in the past Steele has had 3 top 3 b and f Finishes. And one is playing in the easiest position on the ground.

Steele has had a great season considering he has been our best performer through out the year - for him to be in the top 4 in the coaches votes shows how well he has played this year, if we could get someone good to help him.

 

[austinnn]

Maybe they no longer are singing to their fans hahahahha

Yep I agree. I have to say as a person who eagerly awaits the dissolution of the Carlton Football Club and who revels in their every failure, they never let ME down.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Not getting him hurts a lot more then Paddy vs Pertracca.

I know Billings was a consensus top 3 pick but having the Bont would solve a fu** load of issues.

While you’re time traveling can you go back to Nov 2001 & convince Bevo to take Judd instead of Ball?

That way we’d be able to look back at multiple premierships & not just admire the 10th place we got in 2018 on the back of Bont’s play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kernelT]

While you’re time traveling can you go back to Nov 2001 & convince Bevo to take Judd instead of Ball?

That way we’d be able to look back at multiple premierships & not just admire the 10th place we got in 2018 on the back of Bont’s play.

I'll raise you… Fyfe instead of Lovett

Grundy instead of the monster mashup of - Lee, Hickey, Wright, White, Murdoch, Saunders, Peirce, Dunnell.

Gotta love the saints

 

[plugger66]

I'll raise you… Fyfe instead of Lovett

Grundy instead of the monster mashup of - Lee, Hickey, Wright, White, Murdoch, Saunders, Peirce, Dunnell.

Gotta love the saints

Every club

 

[sammm]

I'll raise you… Fyfe instead of Lovett

Grundy instead of the monster mashup of - Lee, Hickey, Wright, White, Murdoch, Saunders, Peirce, Dunnell.

Gotta love the saints

I am sure all clubs could do the same thing, and wish they had their chances over again.

 

[kernelT]

Every club

I am sure all clubs could do the same thing, and wish they had their chances over again.

Sure, but it's hard argue that our recruiting from about 2004 - 2014 was competent.

Not many players from the draft to reach 100 games at the club from that period.

2004
Gwilt

2005
Gilbert

2006
Armitage
C Jones
Geary

2007
Steven

2008
None

2009
none
8 games combined from our first 4 picks

2010
none

2011
Ross
Newnes

2012
None - none left in the AFL

2013
Billings
Dunstan
Acres turned into a can of coke after being selected in the 1st round.

2014
Sinclair likely, Lonie looking unlikely

2015
Gresham the only player still on an AFL list

 

[gringo2011]

Sure, but it's hard argue that our recruiting from about 2004 - 2014 was competent.

Not many players from the draft to reach 100 games at the club from that period.

2004
Gwilt

2005
Gilbert

2006
Armitage
C Jones
Geary

2007
Steven

2008
None

2009
none
8 games combined from our first 4 picks

2010
none

2011
Ross
Newnes

2012
None - none left in the AFL

2013
Billings
Dunstan
Acres turned into a can of coke after being selected in the 1st round.

2014
Sinclair likely, Lonie looking unlikely

2015
Gresham the only player still on an AFL list

No wonder we want to chase established players. The draft has been as successful as a pokies machine with a broken coin chute.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No wonder we want to chase established players. The draft has been as successful as a pokies machine with a broken coin chute.

But that has its limitations as well. You can't win a premiership with a team of mercenaries.

And if you draft well you can still win out if the player is traded out.

Geelong turned Kelly from pick 24 into 2 first rounders and a second.

Saints managed some good trades for McEvoy ( squandered )
First rounder Lynch for pick 37
Pick 35 for Rookie Walsh ( Markworth ).
Cripps a pick in the 40s.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Sure, but it's hard argue that our recruiting from about 2004 - 2014 was competent.

Not many players from the draft to reach 100 games at the club from that period.

2004
Gwilt

2005
Gilbert

2006
Armitage
C Jones
Geary

2007
Steven

2008
None

2009
none
8 games combined from our first 4 picks

2010
none

2011
Ross
Newnes

2012
None - none left in the AFL

2013
Billings
Dunstan
Acres turned into a can of coke after being selected in the 1st round.

2014
Sinclair likely, Lonie looking unlikely

2015
Gresham the only player still on an AFL list

Pretty much a whole decade wasted, not good list building however the late 2000's and early 2010s do hurt us with not having senior players.

The introduction of GC and GWS did hurt us in the long run

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Firstly, if something is so dumb we take the time to write a lengthy response. It has obviously triggered you for a reason. Nothing I have seen is remotely controversial, take the blinkers off and think about it.

Under Finnis's tenure we have seen some of the worst contracts in football. Richo's extension has an unbelievable howler. Trout given a thousand chances, despite being recognised as a plonker by the entire industry.

The Hanners contract is so bad it beggars belief. I am not convinced he is best 22 when fit anyway. He hasn't played good footy for 3 years. I think there is zero chance a contract like this happens at a decent club. Under Finnis tenure we have constantly dished out big contracts like candy despite having no competitive pressure.

Do you seriously think Hanners would not have come to Saints on 3 years, instead of 5? If so, which other club was at the table with 5? Furthermore, if another club is that stupid then we walk. It's not hard. What we did was completely reckless. You think having a bloke as one of your highest paid players for 5 years, who will be lucky to play 40 games total is no big deal? Contracts this bad kill football clubs. You might think it is not a big deal he is Lethleans buddy, I think it is appalling. We have gifted a staff members mates kid over 1.5m he should never have received. You might not have an issue with this massive conflict of interest, I do. It is the worst contract in footy, and it was engineered by Lethlean/Finnis. I have no respect for either.

So we have had less off field problems, who cares, our onfield performance has been a joke. It has been the most boring period in the clubs history. A crap brandy, nothing but beige the entire decade, and yes I remember the 80's. His time should be up. Some of the decisions the club has made in his time are indefensible.

As for players, Geary is borderline best 22. At his age, it is not really worth it. We have talented kids coming through, we should play them. Yes, Ross is also best 22 but not by much. He does not add a lot to our side, and we re not competing any time soon. Having him clog up midfield time is a missed opportunity to play younger blokes who will eventually blow past him. Unlike you, I don't expect much back for him as I don't think he is worth much.

We have some promising kids on the list, it is time to prioritise them. Something we never did under the entire Richo/Finnis dark years.

its not remotely controversial .. if just plain idiotic

Finnis is the reason we are able to stay a float today ..

so extending Richo who had just got us to 9th is the worst contract in our history even though we had the trigger to remove him as we rightly did ...
Malcolm Blight says hello, firing GT cause he had a barny with the pres? how bout throwing away Moorabbin and sending us to Seaford cause the council wouldnt alow us to move the pokies 50m? signing Andrew Lovett... how about handling the school girl incident how bout not ever once adressing the stigma attached to our club about the Milne situation.. all these events were signs of poor leadership that nearly sunk our club in one way or the other.

under finnis we actually stand for something as a club. Finnis has a team around him who are the best in the industry, we dont have the big dollars of other clubs but we have some of the hardes and most driven and focused support staff in the comp.. try calling our membership team and talk to them put that against where we were 10 years ago put that up against what other clubs membership departments are like ...
we have under Finnis looked at what it is to make a club its about presence its about connecting to your fans your members and the community. its about making smart investments in value adding programs, its about re-engaging with our past and investing in our future.

10 years ago our past players association was one bloke who had a email list of past player who he occasionally contacted, we lost contact with so many past player it was almost criminal the disregarding of our past was terrible. now we are light years ahead in that space we still have room to go but it is Finnis who was a key driver in that ...

you gotta remember Finnis is the CEO not the footy department head his job is not about putting the team together or getting us the onfield wins his job is making us viable as a club so we have something to cheer to and about in 30 years time .. from that point looking where we were when Finnis joined to where we are today anyone who cant see Finnis has been a huge success for us is quiet bluntly an idiot ..

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Agree 100% we were beige in that era-in my 50 years of Support we were never beige

you know what else we were in that era .... Broke ... we were flat out broke we were so poor we had to borrow gear from suburban teams cause our gear was falling apart ... i would much rather be "Beige" than broke
i shudder to think how we would have navigated this Covid period with the likes of Archie Fraser or Netterfold in charge or even worse with Rod Butterrs as president

 

[Plugger35]

Great start for the Suns.

An upset could be on here.

 

[Plugger35]

The umpires doing their best to help out the Pies, no surprise there, the AFL would want them playing finals.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

The umpires doing their best to help out the Pies, no surprise there, the AFL would want them playing finals.

It’s a joke

 

[NarklesHelmet]

The umpires doing their best to help out the Pies, no surprise there, the AFL would want them playing finals.

Yep, Pies got so lucky, that obvious holding the ball would have probably been an extra goal to the Suns. Then for Collingwood’s 2nd the absolute softest free to Grundy in the build-up.

Should be a 4 goal margin, just 5 points.... so frustrating.

 

[gringo2011]

But that has its limitations as well. You can't win a premiership with a team of mercenaries.

And if you draft well you can still win out if the player is traded out.

Geelong turned Kelly from pick 24 into 2 first rounders and a second.

Saints managed some good trades for McEvoy ( squandered )
First rounder Lynch for pick 37
Pick 35 for Rookie Walsh ( Markworth ).
Cripps a pick in the 40s.

Hopefully we have a better set up without old mate Trout.

 

[Diehard Saint]

The umpires doing their best to help out the Pies, no surprise there, the AFL would want them playing finals.

When do they want us playing finals?

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Unwatchable this umpiring. Pendlebury and Noble, stone cold holding the balls... play on .

 

[austinnn]

Sure, but it's hard argue that our recruiting from about 2004 - 2014 was competent.

Not many players from the draft to reach 100 games at the club from that period.

2004
Gwilt

2005
Gilbert

2006
Armitage
C Jones
Geary

2007
Steven

2008
None

2009
none
8 games combined from our first 4 picks

2010
none

2011
Ross
Newnes

2012
None - none left in the AFL

2013
Billings
Dunstan
Acres turned into a can of coke after being selected in the 1st round.

2014
Sinclair likely, Lonie looking unlikely

2015
Gresham the only player still on an AFL list

Here's a lonnnng post that I wrote ages ago, after extensive research and then just shelved, beacuse in the end each change would change our future too much to be a useful roadmap and in the end, hindsight is pretty useless; I present it to BigFooty unedited now just as a reference point, so excuse me if it contains errors, or ideas that have since been proven dumb.

...................................................................................................................................................................................

2000 - NET INS: Callahan, Capuano, Gehrig, Hamill, Lawrence, Riewoldt, Koschitzke, Gale, Powell, Voss, Oliver, Berry

Can’t complain really, got so many guns in the trade and a few very handy draftees, including a youngster called Riewoldt. Mark Gale the only obvious bust, exchange for Graham Johncock. If you wanted to be really ruthless you’d leave Kosi and pick up one of Alan Didak, Daniel Kerr, Guy Richards or Daniel Cross. Might have asked Freo for James Clement or Jess Sinclair for Matt Carr, instead of Craig Callahan. Get Darren Jolly and Max Rooke instead of Chris Oliver and Justin Berry

Out: Callahan, Gale, Oliver, Berry
In: Clement, Johncock, Jolly, Rooke


2001 - NET INS: Black, Knobel, Ball, X Clarke, Dal Santo, Maguire, Montagna, Houlihan, Dicketts, B Schwarze, Chris Jones

The original superdraft, featuring 21 premiership players, 5 norm smith winners and 5 brownlow winners (none of whom played for the us at the time of winning honours) Exchange Luke Ball for Chris Judd and Josh Houlihan for Brian Lake. Keep the pick 45 we used on Trent Knobel and get Dane Swan in the draft. Ditch all the 3 rookies and get Quinten Lynch, Matt Boyd and Nathan Bock.

Out: Ball, Houlihan, Knobel, Dicketts, B Schwarze, Jones
In: Judd, Lake, Swan, Q Lynch, M Boyd, Bock


2002 - NET INS: Brooks, Penny, Goddard, Ferguson, L Fisher, Stephen Powell, A Murray, Barham.
A bit of talent there and we got the main pick right, the trade for Penny worked plus picked up Stephen Powell in the PSD, and Murray as a rookie, the rest was gak. To start with, forget with Barry Brooks, get Byron Pickett from Port instead. Instead of Ferguson and Fisher, get Kade Simpson and Nick Malceski. Use one of the 5 picks we passed on to pick up Brad Sewell.

Out: Brooks, M Ferguson, L Fisher
In: B Pickett, K Simpson, Malceski, Sewell


2003 - NET INS: Gram, Guerra, R Clarke, S Fisher, Pfitzner, Stone

An ok draft, and we found a gem in Sam Fisher. I liked Raph Clarke as a player, but to satisfy the many fans who didn’t, how about David Mundy instead? We got our trades spot on. Get a couple of rookies instead of Pfitzner and Stone; Embley and Josh Thurgood.

Out: R Clarke, Pfitzner, Stone
In: Mundy, Embley, Thurgood


2004 - NET INS: Fiora, McQualter, Ackland, McGough, Gwilt, Mullins, McDonnell

An average draft with a few all-time guns at the top end. The best player we got out of the whole off season was our famed Welsh-Fijian smokie Jimmy Gwilt. I’d have asked for one of Richmond’s 4 picks inside the top 20 for Heath Black instead of Fiora. Would the Tigers have given us Pick 4 for our PIck 17 plus Troy Simmons, (who Freo gave up to get Heath Black), bearing in mind they also held pick 1, 12 16 and 20? That would have got us Buddy. If not, I suppose we could have got Nathan Van Berlo, Mark LeCras, and Matt Egan instead of McQualter, Ackland and McGough, plus Danyle Pearce and Heath Grundy instead of Mullins and McDonnell.

Out: Fiora, McQualter, Ackland, McGough, Mullins, McDonnell
In: Franklin/Van Berlo, LeCras, Egan, D Pearce, H Grundy


2005 - NET INS: Watts, Gilbert, Rix, Raymond, Sweeney, Corr

God, urgh! Pick 17 for our CEO’s son in this pretty good draft with a great top end. Most of the top 15 are still playing and at least 4 of that 15 have captained AFL clubs. I would have not drafted Gilbo and wrapped up that pick 33 with the Watts 17 to get into the top 10. Let’s be conservative and say that the Lions gave us pick 9 for that, I’d take Nathan Jones with that pick. As for the rest of the dross, I’ll take Matt Stokes instead of Rix, the rest? There wasn’t anything much better around. Take Matt Priddis instead of Cathal Corr in the rookie draft. Maybe I would have also taken Keiren Jack instead of re-rookie-ying Dylan Pfitzer.

Out: Watts, Rix, Corr, Pfitzner
In: N Jones, M Stokes, Priddis, K Jack


2006 - NET INS: Birss, Gardiner, Armitage, Howard, Allen, Clint Jones, Van Rheenen, Eddy, Wall, Geary, Attard

We did a great trade getting Gardiner and change for a 3rd round pick, then blew the change on Shane Birss.
It was an ok draft with a few guns like Joel Selwood, Boak, Ben Reid, James Frawley etc up top and Goldstein, Brad Dick, Lindsay Thomas and Robbie Grey later. I’d have taken Jack Riewoldt instead of Armo, Houli instead of Howard, Robbie Grey instead of Shane Birss, Goldsack for Jarryd Allen. We did ok with a couple of rookies but I would have taken Sam Gibson instead of Van Rheenen.

Out: Armitage, Howard, Birss, Allen, Van Rheenen
In: J Riewoldt, Houli, R Grey, Goldsack, S Gibson


2007 - NET INS: Schneider, Dempster, King, Gardiner, McEvoy, Steven, Gehrig, Connors, Chivers, Miles, Haretuku.

Brilliant trade effort which still amazes me. Dempster and Schneids for pick 26, Steven King and steak knives Gardiner for pick 90! I might be tempted to take Cyril Rioli instead of McEvoy, rather than Dangerfield, but Dangerfield’s consistency might sway me. Maybe I would have taken Taylor Walker instead of Khan Haretuku on the scholarship if possible. Wonaeamirrii and Mumford for Chivers and Miles.

Out: McEvoy, Haretuku, Chivers, Miles
In: Rioli, Walker, Wonaemirri, Mumford


2008 - NET INS: Ray, Lynch, Stanley, Heyne, A Smith, Cahill, Begley, Dawson, Simpkin, Gaertner, Tungaltulum, McGarry, McGrath

Decent trade, and fairly decent even draft with gems throughout. Zac Dawson a decent rookie pick. You’d keep Lynch and be nicer to him. Instead of the rest, grab Neville Jetta and Michael Walters and I guess keep the rest, not much any better. For the rookies get Van Berlo instead of Gaertner, Broughton instead of Tungaltulum, Matt Suckling instead of McGarry.

Out: Stanley, Heyne, Gaertner, Tungaltulum, McGarry
In: N Jetta, Walters, Van Berlo, Broughton, Suckling


2009 - NET INS: Lovett, Peake, Nicholas WInmar, J.W. Smith, Pattison, Johnson, Hutchings, Archer, Walsh

Similar to the previous year, an ok even draft in the top half. One trade which blew up horribly in our face and another ok one. I’d take Nate Fyfe with the pick 16 that Essendon stole from us for Andy Lovett. Otherwise get Max Gawn instead of Nicky Winmar’s second cousin. Maybe Taylor Duryea instead of Adam Pattison. Nothing much on after that. Get Crameri instead of Archer.

Out: Lovett, Winmar, Pattison, Archer
In: Fyfe, Gawn, Duryea, Crameri


2010 - NET INS: Cripps, Crocker, Ledger, Siposs, Gamble, Polo, Curren, Andreoli, J Ferguson.

The Welcome to AFL, Gold Coast Draft with the expansion club taking 8 inside the first 13 draft picks, but the draft still had enough of an even spread of talent to come away smiling despite that. We didn’t do any trades, but we did use a couple of picks up on second hand discards Gamble and Polo in a cheap effort to top up our still globally decent list without blowing our salary cap. There were no other delistees that were any better so I’ll leave that. We also re-rookied Rob Eddy while letting Mark Hutchings go back west, so I’d reverse that. Instead of Cripps, Crocker, Ledger and Siposs, I’d pick Luke Parker, Tom McDonald, Jarryd Lyons and Paul Seedsman respectively. I’d also take Jason Johannisen and Jeremy McGovern instead of Curren and Andreoli. Jackson Ferguson was on a NSW scholarship, you could hypothetically take Hawthorn old boy Chris Langford’s son Will.

Out: Eddy, Cripps, Crocker, Ledger, Siposs, Curren, Andreoli, J Ferguson
In: Hutchings, L Parker, T McDonald, J Lyons, Seedsman, Johannisen, J McGovern, W Langford


2011- NET INS: Saad, Milera, Ross, Markworth, Newnes, Webster, Lever, Wilkes/Maister, Dunell, Shenton, Staley, Minchington.

The Welcome to AFL, GWS Draft with the expansion club taking 11 inside the first 14 draft picks, but it’s a pretty deep draft with fairly good quality, if not much top-draw talent. We gave up pick 20 to get Milera and Saad but gained pick 25 and the best option between those two picks was Henry Schade, so I’d probably leave that trade as is and maybe pick up Brad Hill instead of Seb Ross. Then I’d get Brendan Ah Chee instead of Markworth, Lachie Neale for Jack Newnes, Cam Ellis-Yolmen for Jay Lever and Cam Sutcliffe for Beau Wilkes/Maister. Webster stays. I’d pick up Jack Crisp, Mark Blicavs and Jack Redpath instead of Dunell, Shenton and Staley. Meatball was the best pick at that stage so he stays.

Out: (Ross) Markworth, (Newnes), Lever, Wilkes, Dunell, Shenton, Staley
In: (B Hill) B Ah Chee, (Neale), Ellis-Yolmen, Sutcliffe, Crisp, Blicavs, Redpath


2012- NET INS: Roberton, Lee, Hickey, Dennis-Lane, Wright, White, Murdoch, Saunders, Pierce.

It was a pretty ordinary draft, so we tried to be smart and embarked upon a pretty complicated mess of trades ended up with us getting Lee, Wright, Murdoch and Saunders for Pick 12. Forget that, just grab Brodie Grundy instead. Then we gave away our compo pick for BJ, plus, 36 and 55 to get Tom Hickey, TDL, and Spencer White. Believe it or not, there’s no one that I’d seriously be interested between pick 13 and the White pick, so I suppose I’d still do that trade and instead of getting Spencer White and TDL, I’d pick Lachie Hunter and Rory Atkins. Keep Pierce. The only thing we absolutely nailed was the FA acquisition of Roberton. I’d probably use the rookie pick we passed on and pick up Zac Williams.

Out: Lee, Wright, Murdoch, Saunders, White, Dennis-Lane
In: B Grundy, L Hunter, Atkins, Z Williams


2013 - NET INS: Delaney, Longer, Bruce, Savage, Billings, Dunstan, Acres, Templeton, Weller, Holmes.

Lots of quality throughout that list and you can say we did pretty well without absolutely nailing it. The trades were pretty underwhelming, and frankly I’d be tempted to keep the DalSanto compo pick 25 and pick 41 instead of picking up Josh Bruce and Billy Longer. I’d use those picks and grab Zach Merrett and Ben Brown. Instead of Billings, you could get either of proven guns Bont, P Crippps, as well as others. I like Billings, but Cripps is looking like a safe bet at this stage. Don’t have a problem with the McEvoy pick which gave us Savage and Dunstan, though I’d pick Matt Crouch instead of Dunny. Would you keep Acres, or would you keep the two picks we traded and go for someone like Hartung, McStay, Lemmens, Lew Taylor, Nankervis, Jake Kolodjashnij, Barrass, Riley Knight, Fantasia, Sicily, or Jayden Hunt, plus one of Honeychurch, Tom Langdon, Sam Lloyd, Amon or Tabener? I’d be tempted to keep Acres and hope he is not another Spencer White. Apart from switching Eli for Charlie Cameron, I’d leave the rookies be.

Out: Longer, Bruce, (Billings), Dunstan, Templeton
In: Z Merrett, B Brown, (P Cripps), M Crouch, C Cameron


2014 - NET INS: Membrey, McCartin, Goddard, McKenzie, Lonie, Sinclair, Payne.

We did alright getting FA Membrey for nothing and picking up Sinclair in the rookie draft, but otherwise so far it’s looking pretty grim. The draft was pretty top heavy with a few good gets sprinkled throughout. I’d get DeGoey, Touk Miller, Mitch McGovern and Caleb Daniel instead of McCartin, Goddard, McKenzie and Lonie. In the rookie list, I’d grab Kane Lambert in the place of Brenton Payne and maybe draft Adam Saad instead of redrafting Ahmed Saad.

Out: McCartin, Goddard, McKenzie, Leonie, Payne, Ahmed Saad
In: DeGoey, Miller, M McGovern, C Daniel, K Lambert, Adam Saad


2015 - NET INS: Freeman, Carlisle, Gresham, White, Rice, O’Kearney, Coughlan

A pretty even draft, a couple of great trades and some solid picks. I’d take Tom Papley instead of Nick O’Kearney and James Parsons for Nick Coughlan, and leave the rest alone.

Out: O’Kearney, Coughlan
In: Papley, J Parsons


2016 - NET INS: Steele, Stevens, N Brown, Long, Battle, E Phillips, Marshall, Connellan, Joyce.

We gave up pick 10 in this fairly top heavy draft to get pick 7 in the next, but Hunter Clark looks awesome, so I’ll leave that. No problems with Long, Battle, Phillips or Freeman, who took our original second round pick. I might hold onto pick 50 instead of trading it out.


2017- NET INS: Austin, Clark, Coffield, Clavarino, Paton, Langlands,

Year - Draft Quality - Saints FA/Trade Yield - Saints Draft Yield - Saints Rookie Yield
2000 - C - A - B - E
2001 - A - B - B - E
2002 - C - B - C - D
2003 - C - A - C - E
2004 - C - D - D - E
2005 - B - E - D - E
2006 - C - B - D - C
2007 - B - A - B - E
2008 - C - C - D - D
2009 - C - D - E - D
2010 - C - X - E - E
2011 - C - B - C - D
2012 - D - C - E - X
2013 - B - C - B - B
2014 - C - A - D - B
2015 - B - A - A - E
2016 -
2017 -
2018 - ?

 

[Diehard Saint]

Come on Suns!
How many throws, Collingwood?

 

[Plugger35]

De Goey with 4 goals, he's keeping Collingwood in it along with the umpires.

When do they want us playing finals?

Hopefully we get the sort of umpiring against GWS that the Pies are getting tonight.

The AFL would probably prefer that GWS play finals though.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Hopefully we get the sort of umpiring against GWS that the Pies are getting tonight.

Yeah, wouldn’t be putting any money on it, though.