Analysis 2020 List, Game Plan and Best 22?

[SSwans2011]

COR unlikely to be best 22, Cunningham 50/50.

Gould and Stephens will play round 1. Reid will play forward. Naismith will ruck. IMO

Cunningham is actually one of our more valuable players IMHO. Provides outside run and is a great distributor. Can completely shut someone down when asked to. Should be a certain starter.

 

[SGBeach]

hmmm.. I don't think Mr Curley watched too many Swans games
- Naismith to ruck over Sinclare - a big fan of Sinkers, but a bigger fan of playing a real ruckman
- Reid to stay in the forwards - Curley reckons McCartin is more valuable up forward. Horse has basically said 'McCartin is a forward, time down back can help his forward development (watch/learn new leading patterns etc) but will end up playing forward'.. Also Reids marking ability is most valuable inside 50 / on the wing / coming out of defence.. Allir, Rampe, Mills, Dawson are all very good marks and chuck Melican / Brand / Gould in there and I reckon the back 6 is pretty strong from a marking perspective
- Blakey will spend more time on the wing
- Gray and Taylor will play mostly through the midfield
So... I reckon, Brand or Melican will take a spot, Naismith will ruck, Taylor and Gray will have to really earn a spot in round 1, and maybe Gould will push Dawson further up the ground

maybe Mr Curley should stick to being a happy, quirky little character in Luenigs cartoons

 

[HighReeve]

Never, ever bought into the idea that Reid could be a defender.

Not physical enough.

Hence despite rezoning Reid to the backline to fit in McCartin, tho both can and have played together, they term him '3rd tall'.

Melican saw out the year in seniors despite ordinary form to allow Aliir and Rampe more freedom
Plus we re-drafted Maibaum and signed Brand.

 

[TheMase]

Never, ever bought into the idea that Reid could be a defender.

Not physical enough.

I just can’t see why it would happen at this point of his career.

Buddy, Reid and McCartin forward. Reid to give relief ruck. All three have the ability to push up the ground to link up or stay deep.

Naismith or Sinclair as main ruck, likely Naismith if fit I reckon.

One of Brand or Melican with Rampe and Aliir in defence.

 

[S120]

Rampe - Brand - Mills
Dawson - Aliir - Lloyd
Florent - Hewett - Blakey
Heeney - Franklin - Hayward
Papley - McCartin - Reid
Naismith - Kennedy - Parker

Rowbottom - Cunningham - Gray - Taylor

Sinclair - O'Riordan - Ronke - Fox

Yeh at this point, with Maibaum, Melican and Brand (none of whom are locks, but I think will do an adequate job at least) I want McCartin to stay forward.

If both Sinclair and Naismith are fit from round 1, I'd probably go with Naismith as the number one to start the year until Sinclair takes it off him. I love Sinclair but we've all seen that he isn't able to sustain 4 quarters against the best rucks. Naismith at least has the size and leap to compete in the middle and if he's fully fit, I'd start with him until he gives it up. I have no doubt Sinclair wouldn't drop his bundle at not making the side and will work his tail off in the 2's to win his spot back. Reid is our 2nd ruck - I've always liked what he gives in that role too. I'd like to see him trained at it properly over the pre-season.

I'd be sad to not have O'Riordan in the 22 because I'm a big fan, but I have him as just missing out at this stage given full fitness of the list. Gould, Stephens can start in the NEAFL and force their way in (wouldn't count either of them out from starting in round 1 though).

 

[caesar88]

The first glaring error is putting Naismith as a back-up ruckman. He's guaranteed to take the no.1 ruck spot. In addition to Naismith I think that Melican and Gould should be good enough to get in but can't see who they replace. I guess a lot will depend on injuries.

I do like the idea of Reid back and McCartin forward. I think that McCartin is too good as a fwd to place in the backline.

The solution would be for Melican/Gould/Brand to play the Reid role in defence, McCartin to stay forward, and Reid to be in the NEAFL.

*braces self*

 

[TheMase]

The solution would be for Melican/Gould/Brand to play the Reid role in defence, McCartin to stay forward, and Reid to be in the NEAFL.

*braces self*

Don’t confuse a solution with your dreams

 

[elastic]

gray shits on ronke

I wonder if he was surprised to find out his new role in the team

 

[sataris]

Genuine question,

Would you rather have a 3/5 star player in good form or a 2/5 star player in great form?
EDIT: This isn't about any 2 players in particular, just want to see what people's views are.

 

[SGBeach]

Genuine question,

Would you rather have a 3/5 star player in good form or a 2/5 star player in great form?
EDIT: This isn't about any 2 players in particular, just want to see what people's views are.

who's better?

 

[Millky95]

Assuming Naismith and Sinclair are both fit and ready for R1, do we play 2 rucks? Because we can't fit McCartin, Reid and Buddy in the same forward line if we have 2 rucks (assuming McCartin plays forward and I hope he does)

Seems to be either:
Buddy, Naismith, Sinclair and Reid/McCartin
Buddy, Naismith/Sinclair, Reid and McCartin

 

[DobmusEdge]

COR unlikely to be best 22, Cunningham 50/50.

Gould and Stephens will play round 1. Reid will play forward. Naismith will ruck. IMO

I think you’re so much closer to the bullseye than Curley. Reid down back, please

The guy also left Noah Anderson out of the Suns and had Taranto in a forward pocket for Giants. He just makes stuff up really

 

[DobmusEdge]

Assuming Naismith and Sinclair are both fit and ready for R1, do we play 2 rucks? Because we can't fit McCartin, Reid and Buddy in the same forward line if we have 2 rucks (assuming McCartin plays forward and I hope he does)

Seems to be either:
Buddy, Naismith, Sinclair and Reid/McCartin
Buddy, Naismith/Sinclair, Reid and McCartin

We can play all if the match committee wants to go that way. In our all conquering 2014 season (GF aside) we had Pyke, Tippet, Goodes, Buddy and Reid in our best 22

 

[Vin Rogue]

hmmm.. I don't think Mr Curley watched too many Swans games
- Naismith to ruck over Sinclare - a big fan of Sinkers, but a bigger fan of playing a real ruckman
- Reid to stay in the forwards - Curley reckons McCartin is more valuable up forward. Horse has basically said 'McCartin is a forward, time down back can help his forward development (watch/learn new leading patterns etc) but will end up playing forward'.. Also Reids marking ability is most valuable inside 50 / on the wing / coming out of defence.. Allir, Rampe, Mills, Dawson are all very good marks and chuck Melican / Brand / Gould in there and I reckon the back 6 is pretty strong from a marking perspective
- Blakey will spend more time on the wing
- Gray and Taylor will play mostly through the midfield
So... I reckon, Brand or Melican will take a spot, Naismith will ruck, Taylor and Gray will have to really earn a spot in round 1, and maybe Gould will push Dawson further up the ground

maybe Mr Curley should stick to being a happy, quirky little character in Luenigs cartoons

Agree that Reid's marking ability is his strength. Great get out of jail option for a defender's kick in. Impressive link player to mark the ball in the midfield. And can be an impact player in the forward line with his marking. We have had too many hack kickers delivering poor ball into our forward line. Reid has not had an easy time of it.. Could imagine that at a more skillful team he would have established himself as a very vauable player.

 

[Vin Rogue]

who's better?

Two star player versus a three star player? Not mucj difference I's suggest. Current form should reverse their stars in my opinion.

 

[Vin Rogue]

I just can’t see why it would happen at this point of his career.

Buddy, Reid and McCartin forward. Reid to give relief ruck. All three have the ability to push up the ground to link up or stay deep.

Naismith or Sinclair as main ruck, likely Naismith if fit I reckon.

One of Brand or Melican with Rampe and Aliir in defence.

Agree. I think that if fully fit, Buddy needs to roam mid field more often. Few key defenders have his tank to endure long runs and then be able to keep up when he accelerates with the ball. Buddy would be one of our best kicks to advantage for our forwards and he on the run can still kick goals from outside the arc. Teams do not defend well the space outside the arc. It is where Buddy is most damaging, when he effectively takes the double tag out of the equation. Hawthorn used him this way in his last year with them. It allows us to then make use of Reid and McCartin as key forwards and stretch the opposition defenders. No reason why all three can't be rotated this way for each to get a breath after an explosive few minutes in midfield.

 

[caesar88]

Agree. I think that if fully fit, Buddy needs to roam mid field more often. Few key defenders have his tank to endure long runs and then be able to keep up when he accelerates with the ball. Buddy would be one of our best kicks to advantage for our forwards and he on the run can still kick goals from outside the arc. Teams do not defend well the space outside the arc. It is where Buddy is most damaging, when he effectively takes the double tag out of the equation. Hawthorn used him this way in his last year with them. It allows us to then make use of Reid and McCartin as key forwards and stretch the opposition defenders. No reason why all three can't be rotated this way for each to get a breath after an explosive few minutes in midfield.

That's all good and well but it's contingent upon Reid actually contributing as a key forward on a consistent basis, which I'm sure even his biggest advocates could concede he's never done.

 

[Vin Rogue]

That's all good and well but it's contingent upon Reid actually contributing as a key forward on a consistent basis, which I'm sure even his biggest advocates could concede he's never done.

Reid has become a victim of his versibility. I have no doubt that if he had been required to become a KPF only and a pinch hit ruckman, that he would have become a more consistent forward. Yes, the games where he has starred as a KPF have been rare....but they have happened. I can only say what I see...but he has clearly been Horse's play everywhere project, so it's hard to know precisely what instructions/priorities Reid has been given beyond being versatile. A fit and confident Reid will always be a lock in player in any team coached by Horse. I also believe that with Buddy playing much higher on the ground, that mid fielders and on ballers will be forced to seek out a better option than simply looking to kick it to Buddy. Makes our team much more dangerous to other teams when the big magnet is not always at home. Reckon it would always have been a hard ask to become a consistent KPF at the Swans playing alongside Buddy. He is simply so demanding of the ball and would always seem to be the best or only option.

 

[caesar88]

Reid has become a victim of his versibility. I have no doubt that if he had been required to become a KPF only and a pinch hit ruckman, that he would have become a more consistent forward. Yes, the games where he has starred as a KPF have been rare....but they have happened. I can only say what I see...but he has clearly been Horse's play everywhere project, so it's hard to know precisely what instructions/priorities Reid has been given beyond being versatile. A fit and confident Reid will always be a lock in player in any team coached by Horse. I also believe that with Buddy playing much higher on the ground, that mid fielders and on ballers will be forced to seek out a better option than simply looking to kick it to Buddy. Makes our team much more dangerous to other teams when the big magnet is not always at home. Reckon it would always have been a hard ask to become a consistent KPF at the Swans playing alongside Buddy. He is simply so demanding of the ball and would always seem to be the best or only option.

Okay let’s say his ‘versatility’ is to blame for his lack of consistency. That still doesn’t change the fact we have a forward who lacks consistency on our hands. It’s a massive problem when you consider that Buddy’s best suited up the ground and McCartin is still only 20. That’s why I still think we need to seriously invest in McLean as another forward option, or at least his older counterpart with less upside Sinclair.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Okay let’s say his ‘versatility’ is to blame for his lack of consistency. That still doesn’t change the fact we have a forward who lacks consistency on our hands. It’s a massive problem when you consider that Buddy’s best suited up the ground and McCartin is still only 20. That’s why I still think we need to seriously invest in McLean as another forward option, or at least his older counterpart with less upside Sinclair.

If you're a tall forward that's not Lockett, Dunstall, Carey, Franklin, or Ablett then you're inconsistent. Even Ablett was inconsistent at times.

It's a very difficult position to play because it relies not just on one's own timing but also on the quality of service from up the ground. In Reid's case he's also often competing for service with one of the great players to ever play the game in Franklin, whose very presence draws the footy.

There's absolutely no reason to think McCartin or McLean would be better or more consistent than Reid. Certainly not in the next year or so.

If the both overtake him, sure, drop Reid, but as it stands, they're both well behind him.

 

[caesar88]

If you're a tall forward that's not Lockett, Dunstall, Carey, Franklin, or Ablett then you're inconsistent. Even Ablett was inconsistent at times.

It's a very difficult position to play because it relies not just on one's own timing but also on the quality of service from up the ground. In Reid's case he's also often competing for service with one of the great players to ever play the game in Franklin, whose very presence draws the footy.

There's absolutely no reason to think McCartin or McLean would be better or more consistent than Reid. Certainly not in the next year or so.

If the both overtake him, sure, drop Reid, but as it stands, they're both well behind him.

If it were up to me Reid would be in the NEAFL.

But re the point I made above, I wasn’t talking about McLean instead of Reid. I meant as well as Reid, since I will concede he’s a certainty for Horse’s best 22. We need another tall option up forward to make up for Reid’s inconsistency and McCartin’s inevitable ebbs and flows. We also need someone to provide support to Naismith who hasn’t played a game in two years. I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that McLean is the best candidate who ticks both boxes?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

If it were up to me Reid would be in the NEAFL.

But re the point I made above, I wasn’t talking about McLean instead of Reid. I meant as well as Reid, since I will concede he’s a certainty for Horse’s best 22. We need another tall option up forward to make up for Reid’s inconsistency and McCartin’s inevitable ebbs and flows. We also need someone to provide support to Naismith who hasn’t played a game in two years. I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that McLean is the best candidate who ticks both boxes?

I love McLean but Sinclair is ahead of him.

And I think you missed my point about Reid. He's not inconsistent. Not for the position he plays. When he's not marking it he's blocking for someone, contesting the ball on the ground, knocking it to advantage. All the things any coach would want from a tall forward who isn't absolutely elite.

Repeating something 1000 times doesn't make it true. It's just pushing a bullshit narrative.

 

[Corpuscles]

...

Repeating something 1000 times doesn't make it true. It's just pushing a bullshit narrative.

LOL! So true!

 

[The Gong]

I love McLean but Sinclair is ahead of him.

And I think you missed my point about Reid. He's not inconsistent. Not for the position he plays. When he's not marking it he's blocking for someone, contesting the ball on the ground, knocking it to advantage. All the things any coach would want from a tall forward who isn't absolutely elite.

Repeating something 1000 times doesn't make it true. It's just pushing a bullshit narrative.

Ranked 13th in total contested marks.
Ranked 8th in Total Tackles Inside 50.
Ranked 17th in Total Marks Inside 50.
Ranked 16th in Tackles Inside 50 Per Game.
Kicked at 68.3% goal accuracy which is one of the highest for a forward even if he didn't slot as many.

When he plays forward he goes pretty good but he's used all over the park.

I like McLean too but I think it's wishful thinking at the moment.

 

[Corpuscles]

Reid has become a victim of his versibility.

I hope he forgets about his "versibility" and becomes the dominant consititiible KPF that he has always shown promise of being.!
Until Joe Daniher turns up next year, at least!