List Mgmt. 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

[Chief]

This is Part 1

The thread is continued in part 2:

List Mgmt. - 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread - Part 2

This Part 2 Continued from Part 1: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2020-list-management-free-agency-trade-thread.1241035/ What type of players does our list need? Pace, Skill, Class and and goal threat. A winger, forward flank and forward pocket are the 3 positions that we need, plus...

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[Freoforever86]

That's alright, will give us a chance to massively overpay for him at the trade table.

Nah, Belly gets it done for a 5th rounder plus Colyer

 

[Superkoops]

Adelaide are dreaming, no one is paying Brad Crouch more than 650k, that is scraping into band 2 territory and nowhere near band 1

I don’t know about that. Gold Coast were heavily into him last year for a big price. Look I agree it is too much money for Crouch who is a slow front runner but he Knows how to get the pill.

The nature of grabbing a free agent is the requirement to overpay. Frawley netted Melbourne pick 2 or 3 from memory because they were down the bottom. Smart to play your cards that way to take advantage of the system. On the flip side Hawks got reamed with Buddy Franklin compo.

With regards to draft positions it is set before trading and free agency. Should we finish about 15th and end up with pick 4 the pts deficit comes into effect before any free agency compo. But yes an early free agency compo pick or academy bid will indeed slide us back. Sucks but we will end up with a top 10 pick (most likely top 7) in an unknown draft.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I don’t know about that. Gold Coast were heavily into him last year for a big price. Look I agree it is too much money for Crouch who is a slow front runner but he Knows how to get the pill.

The nature of grabbing a free agent is the requirement to overpay. Frawley netted Melbourne pick 2 or 3 from memory because they were down the bottom. Smart to play your cards that way to take advantage of the system. On the flip side Hawks got reamed with Buddy Franklin compo.

With regards to draft positions it is set before trading and free agency. Should we finish about 15th and end up with pick 4 the pts deficit comes into effect before any free agency compo. But yes an early free agency compo pick or academy bid will indeed slide us back. Sucks but we will end up with a top 10 pick (most likely top 7) in an unknown draft.

I'll eat a hat if he gets band 1, particularly after this year.

GC baulked because he started asking for too much, dont see that value having gone up this year

 

[Megalon]

He is who I thought we were getting (player comparison-wise) when we got Wilson.
I'd love to see Wilson do what he seemed to be doing at GWS.

Wilson was good in 2018, but played with injuries for much of 2019, don't write him off yet as he's been out of the game for a while.

 

[Docker82]

Jason Johannisen. 3 years in the making. This time it'll finally happen

He’s an interesting one.

There seems to be a handful of players who are on and off rumoured to be coming to Freo (or other clubs). The rumours may disappear for a bit but they end up coming back sure enough.

The Hogan and McCarthy rumours never seemed to stop, whilst it was a given that Lobb and Acres rumours would pop up at least once a year. I seem to remember a few Conca and Colyer rumours too.

Like these guys above the Jason Johannisen and Angus Brayshaw rumours never seem to go away. It’ll be interesting to see if there’s anything in them.

FWIW though I think Johannisen would be a strange move at this point. He’s 29 next year and unless he’s going to play wing doesn’t really fill an urgent need. You’d think he’d have to cost less than what Nathan Wilson did given his age.

 

[tonygeeks]

Wilson was good in 2018, but played with injuries for much of 2019, don't write him off yet as he's been out of the game for a while.

It would be good if he could take a tackle and not get up limping like he’s just broken both of his ankles though


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[theGav56]

At 29 years of age my fear is he could be looking for a retirement package. We need hungry recruits.

 

[Lach72]

I don’t know about that. Gold Coast were heavily into him last year for a big price. Look I agree it is too much money for Crouch who is a slow front runner but he Knows how to get the pill.

The nature of grabbing a free agent is the requirement to overpay. Frawley netted Melbourne pick 2 or 3 from memory because they were down the bottom. Smart to play your cards that way to take advantage of the system. On the flip side Hawks got reamed with Buddy Franklin compo.

With regards to draft positions it is set before trading and free agency. Should we finish about 15th and end up with pick 4 the pts deficit comes into effect before any free agency compo. But yes an early free agency compo pick or academy bid will indeed slide us back. Sucks but we will end up with a top 10 pick (most likely top 7) in an unknown draft.

You'd have to be on serious mind altering drugs if you're a GC recruiter and thinking Brad Crouch is going to make us better. Him and his brother are stats padding s**t trucks

 

[eastfreo75]

He’s an interesting one.

There seems to be a handful of players who are on and off rumoured to be coming to Freo (or other clubs). The rumours may disappear for a bit but they end up coming back sure enough.

The Hogan and McCarthy rumours never seemed to stop, whilst it was a given that Lobb and Acres rumours would pop up at least once a year. I seem to remember a few Conca and Colyer rumours too.

Like these guys above the Jason Johannisen and Angus Brayshaw rumours never seem to go away. It’ll be interesting to see if there’s anything in them.

FWIW though I think Johannisen would be a strange move at this point. He’s 29 next year and unless he’s going to play wing doesn’t really fill an urgent need. You’d think he’d have to cost less than what Nathan Wilson did given his age.

With JL’s game style the ability to hit targets is premium.

JJ is a butcher and 29, no thanks.

Brayshaw is a bomber with the ball and his concussion issues is too much of a risk.

We need outside run with good ball use and a small forward.

Williams and Cameron is what we need.

 

[george2]

With JL’s game style the ability to hit targets is premium.

JJ is a butcher and 29, no thanks.

Brayshaw is a bomber with the ball and his concussion issues is too much of a risk.

We need outside run with good ball use and a small forward.

Williams and Cameron is what we need.

I can actually see Brayshaw being traded at the end of this year. They need to make a change in their midfield to get a few different types of players, its been pretty heavily reported over the last couple of weeks that all of their mids play a similar style. I think Brayshaw is one they will look to offload as he will have a reasonably high trade value and will give them a bit more salary space to try and fit someone else in. Not too sure he is the type of player we would be interested in either as it would probably just add to our similar mids as well.

 

[Dockeroo]

With JL’s game style the ability to hit targets is premium.

JJ is a butcher and 29, no thanks.

Brayshaw is a bomber with the ball and his concussion issues is too much of a risk.

We need outside run with good ball use and a small forward.

Williams and Cameron is what we need.

We’d have to give up our first and second round picks to get these guys in. Williams is injury prone and while Cameron is class, he will be 27 next year. Our list is 2 years away from trading out picks for established talent. We still have too many cloggers on the list and need at least one, possibly 2 more years of drafting to purge these guys out of the system.
Melbourne did it too soon in 2018 - traded away Ben King for Steven May and went all in with their list and now look at them.
keep going to the draft and climbing the ladder steadily while building a good culture

 

[TheMcManusNose]

We’d have to give up our first and second round picks to get these guys in. Williams is injury prone and while Cameron is class, he will be 27 next year. Our list is 2 years away from trading out picks for established talent. We still have too many cloggers on the list and need at least one, possibly 2 more years of drafting to purge these guys out of the system.
Melbourne did it too soon in 2018 - traded away Ben King for Steven May and went all in with their list and now look at them.
keep going to the draft and climbing the ladder steadily while building a good culture

100% agree with this. It's about building the natural depth of talent to push out the Colyers of the world and be able to bring in real contributers when we have 2, 3 or 4 best 22 out with injury.

The only exception is if something ridiculous falls into your lap like a Cripps. I might slightly disagree with you here in that I think Charlie Cameron falls into that class, but I will bet my mortgage he doesn't come here as he is from there.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

We’d have to give up our first and second round picks to get these guys in. Williams is injury prone and while Cameron is class, he will be 27 next year. Our list is 2 years away from trading out picks for established talent. We still have too many cloggers on the list and need at least one, possibly 2 more years of drafting to purge these guys out of the system.
Melbourne did it too soon in 2018 - traded away Ben King for Steven May and went all in with their list and now look at them.
keep going to the draft and climbing the ladder steadily while building a good culture

I get what your saying, but everyone sounds a bit older when you add a year to their age.

Cameron is in the exact age I think we need someone, 1 year earlier would be ideal but not a game breaker.

If the games from AB and Cerra on the weekend are something we can start to see consistently, we dont need 2 more years of draft picks, we need best 22 players (dont have to be stars) in the 23 - 27 age group (ie Aish and Acres)

 

[wahooo]

With JL’s game style the ability to hit targets is premium.

JJ is a butcher and 29, no thanks.

Brayshaw is a bomber with the ball and his concussion issues is too much of a risk.

We need outside run with good ball use and a small forward.

Williams and Cameron is what we need.

Are you referring to Zac Williams and Charlie Cameron here?

I'd say our chances of getting them are zilch.

I'm also not convinced we need to chase either of them, there are young WA blokes who fill similar roles that we could chase. Clark, Sharp and Rivers would all nicely fill that outside run with good ball use role and would better fit our demographic. Admittedly, we're unlikely to get any of them this year but that's not a problem in my view. Happy to go to the draft this year and trade those blokes in later down the track as we're making a tilt or if they declare they want to come home. I know we're hardly a destination club but surely we'd be a chance at one of the three.

As for small forwards I think we're generally pretty well covered with what's coming through the NGA. Although, Schultz, Matera and Colyer have been diabolical we genuinely have some talent in that area. There's Henry, Sturt (I know he's not a small but boy does he have the pace and skill of one), Switta who can provide pressure, Serong will probably rotate through there as he develops and not to mention Walters and Fyfey will likely spend more time forward in the twilight of their careers. We may also be lucky enough to have a chance at Ian Hill in a GWS cap squeeze. And bloody hell, we could almost field a forward line purely of talls.

I like your thinking, I'd trade for both of them too but can't see either of them coming here. Happy to hit the draft again this year and set things up for the long term.

 

[PeopleEater]

100% agree with this. It's about building the natural depth of talent to push out the Colyers of the world and be able to bring in real contributers when we have 2, 3 or 4 best 22 out with injury.

I look forward to the day that we only have 2,3 or 4 B22 out. More likely 6,7 and 8 consistently so we're going to have to go reasonably deep.

Ok maybe a tad cynical but I'm scarred

 

[Taylor]

Charlie Cameron moving to Brisbane for "family reasons" and then to Perth for "family reasons" would be suspicious when everyone knows it's the fat stack of cash paid up front.

Plus that would lead me to think he will jump ship at the next big offer when his front loaded deal is about to drop down in back ended money.

 

[eastfreo75]

Are you referring to Zac Williams and Charlie Cameron here?

I'd say our chances of getting them are zilch.

I'm also not convinced we need to chase either of them, there are young WA blokes who fill similar roles that we could chase. Clark, Sharp and Rivers would all nicely fill that outside run with good ball use role and would better fit our demographic. Admittedly, we're unlikely to get any of them this year but that's not a problem in my view. Happy to go to the draft this year and trade those blokes in later down the track as we're making a tilt or if they declare they want to come home. I know we're hardly a destination club but surely we'd be a chance at one of the three.

As for small forwards I think we're generally pretty well covered with what's coming through the NGA. Although, Schultz, Matera and Colyer have been diabolical we genuinely have some talent in that area. There's Henry, Sturt (I know he's not a small but boy does he have the pace and skill of one), Switta who can provide pressure, Serong will probably rotate through there as he develops and not to mention Walters and Fyfey will likely spend more time forward in the twilight of their careers. We may also be lucky enough to have a chance at Ian Hill in a GWS cap squeeze. And bloody hell, we could almost field a forward line purely of talls.

I like your thinking, I'd trade for both of them too but can't see either of them coming here. Happy to hit the draft again this year and set things up for the long term.

Great points, good discussion.

Cameron’s manager is going public about the Lions low balling on negotiations. Could be BS. Won’t hurt to put an offer in.

Williams I agree is unlikely to zero change. Because he is a free agent, it’s only salary cap space.

Clark,Rivers, Hill and Sharp should be targets. Money ball wise, it would be better.

I am not convinced at we can rely on the NGA for small forwards. Henry is a great find but the other NGA’s are B Rookie list players.

 

[G Mus]

100% agree. Only costs money. Be brutal, give them one or two years and if they show something keep them. Otherwise straight onto the next kid. Plenty that don't quite make it in the US are still supremely gifted with athletic ability and most just have that nous for sports in general.

Not even just the super talls like Mason Cox. Anyone over 6'5 that has the speed of Jayden Stephenson and the bulk of Fyfe/Cripps.

Chase the college wide receivers that end up in Canada and other streams

 

[mightymouse75]

Great points, good discussion.

Cameron’s manager is going public about the Lions low balling on negotiations. Could be BS. Won’t hurt to put an offer in.

Williams I agree is unlikely to zero change. Because he is a free agent, it’s only salary cap space.

Clark,Rivers, Hill and Sharp should be targets. Money ball wise, it would be better.

I am not convinced at we can rely on the NGA for small forwards. Henry is a great find but the other NGA’s are B Rookie list players.

Ross Lyon was talking recently about managers shopping their players around to bump up their price at home.
It looks ugly but it is business at its best/worst

 

[Alfonz]

Cameron could get everything he wants, and Brisbane would still have a huge war chest to tempt another big name. His manager knows it. Compare them with WC, who manage to fit in massive deals for Yeo, Naitanui, Darling, Gaff, Shuey, McGovern, Kelly. All Brisbane have is Neale. There are a few young guys approaching a decent pay day like Berry, McCluggage, Andrews, Hipwood, but they aren't going to break the bank.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Do we continue to hit the draft hard, or should we starting trying to bring in A and B graders into the club?

Looking at Brisbane and Melbourne, who have both brought in players but Brisbane have had a lot more success at it.

I feel if we could bring in players who fill a need who are 25 or younger, or a free agent then I would be happy to bring them in assuming they do not cost a 1st round draft pick (assuming this stay in the top 5).

The easy call is to go to the draft, but it is not always the best option.

 

[george2]

Great points, good discussion.

Cameron’s manager is going public about the Lions low balling on negotiations. Could be BS. Won’t hurt to put an offer in.

Williams I agree is unlikely to zero change. Because he is a free agent, it’s only salary cap space.

Clark,Rivers, Hill and Sharp should be targets. Money ball wise, it would be better.

I am not convinced at we can rely on the NGA for small forwards. Henry is a great find but the other NGA’s are B Rookie list players.

There is also Jeff Farmer's son and Daniel Motlop's son coming through the year after, I'm not to sure about Farmer but Motlop has got a little bit of coverage through the PSA publicity for Aquinas and looks to have a few tricks up his sleeve

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

There is also Jeff Farmer's son and Daniel Motlop's son coming through the year after, I'm not to sure about Farmer but Motlop has got a little bit of coverage through the PSA publicity for Aquinas and looks to have a few tricks up his sleeve

It's probably risky to rely on NGA moving forward, think there will be some drastic changes there.

 

[george2]

Do we continue to hit the draft hard, or should we starting trying to bring in A and B graders into the club?

Looking at Brisbane and Melbourne, who have both brought in players but Brisbane have had a lot more success at it.

I feel if we could bring in players who fill a need who are 25 or younger, or a free agent then I would be happy to bring them in assuming they do not cost a 1st round draft pick (assuming this stay in the top 5).

The easy call is to go to the draft, but it is not always the best option.

I'd be quite comfortable with going to the draft again this year and then targeting some players to trade in from the following year, when the likes of Clark, Sharp etc. are out of contract.

 

[mightymouse75]

It's probably risky to rely on NGA moving forward, think there will be some drastic changes there.

With blm & pc these days I don't think the nga will fall through the cracks.