List Mgmt. 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread

[Chief]

This is Part 1

The thread is continued in part 2:

List Mgmt. - 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread - Part 2

This Part 2 Continued from Part 1: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2020-list-management-free-agency-trade-thread.1241035/ What type of players does our list need? Pace, Skill, Class and and goal threat. A winger, forward flank and forward pocket are the 3 positions that we need, plus...

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[Taylor]

It depends if you think he can make as an AFL ruckman or not, and what other clubs would offer for him.

If Geelong offered pick 20 for him, I would think about it.

Given he is contracted I'd be expecting to be able to replace him with the trade value sent back to us. I don't think it would be smart to give up our only genuine ruckman exposed to AFL and then having to spend above and beyond the trade value for him in order to get the exact same performance, or worse.

I wouldn't expect to get a 30 to 50 game mature bodied ruckman for pick #20. Historically there have been picks in the teens traded for ready made ruckmen.

 

[Scham]

Providing Meek can take the next step, which I think he can, we don’t need to trade for a ruckman imo.

We’ve got plenty of talls on the list. We just need to have them available!

 

[Virgin Dog]

Hypothetical.
Assuming we get a top 4 pick this year.
Bulldogs will be desperate to climb the draft board to match a bid on Ugle-Hagan.
Would you trade say pick 3 for Tim English?
Would the bulldogs?

Dogs wouldn't trade English, and he's contracted until 2022. Would be up there with Bont and Naughton as one of the hardest to pry loose from the club.

Pick 3 for English and the bulldogs 1st.

Darcy to geelong for there 2nd rounder.

Maybe.

LMFAO

 

[G Mus]

Given he is contracted I'd be expecting to be able to replace him with the trade value sent back to us. I don't think it would be smart to give up our only genuine ruckman exposed to AFL and then having to spend above and beyond the trade value for him in order to get the exact same performance, or worse.

I wouldn't expect to get a 30 to 50 game mature bodied ruckman for pick #20. Historically there have been picks in the teens traded for ready made ruckmen.

54 and a downgrade of a later pick got Carlton Pittonet who is better than Darcy by a fair bit so it’s possible

 

[Taylor]

54 and a downgrade of a later pick got Carlton Pittonet who is better than Darcy by a fair bit so it’s possible

Do you think he is better than Sean will be next season?

 

[G Mus]

Do you think he is better than Sean will be next season?

It’s up in the air, but we’d be pretty lucky if Darcy plays next year as well as Pittonet has so far this year - needs to stop picking up injuries that send him backwards in development

 

[Superkoops]

Dogs wouldn't trade English, and he's contracted until 2022. Would be up there with Bont and Naughton as one of the hardest to pry loose from the club.

LMFAO

I agree with you. English is going no where. WB spend a heap of resources and games getting him to a level to reap that investment and hand him over in contract. Not worth any further breath.

Plus why would WB trade to three (or more likely 4/5/6) which is close (but likely behind) a bid on your academy player (JUH). You either need to get in front of a likely bid or downgrade to lower picks for more points.

JUH is a likely bid at one, two or three.

If by some chance we actually end up at pick two, three or four (we can’t end up at one) we really shouldn’t trade it.

 

[FreoRicci]

Why chase duds?

Because we love home-sick overrated duds. It’s Fremantle’s specialty.
BUT Aish isn’t WA, and definitely not a dud.. we broke the trend.

 

[Virgin Dog]

I agree with you. English is going no where. WB spend a heap of resources and games getting him to a level to reap that investment and hand him over in contract. Not worth any further breath.

Plus why would WB trade to three (or more likely 4/5/6) which is close (but likely behind) a bid on your academy player (JUH). You either need to get in front of a likely bid or downgrade to lower picks for more points.

JUH is a likely bid at one, two or three.

If by some chance we actually end up at pick two, three or four (we can’t end up at one) we really shouldn’t trade it.

Yeah if English was going anywhere, he'd have left a year ago before re-signing. We've put ourselves behind in the short time by insisting on playing him as solo number 1 ruck despite only being 22 and needing improvement in many areas. We're finally starting to see results from that, so no pick offer would entice us regardless of how good it looks. His girlfriend is from the east coast too, and plays netball over there

Freo would be crazy to trade out of the top end when O'Driscoll and DGB are both looking like potential top 5 picks this year. I'd especially be looking at O'Driscoll - he's a ball winning, hard tackling burst mid with kick penetration that Freo's midfield is screaming out for

 

[Unique Name]

Has English played one good game in the ruck yet?

 

[Scham]

Has English played one good game in the ruck yet?

Yep, plenty.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Has English played one good game in the ruck yet?

Been in the coaches votes the last two games in a row, and his last third of the season last year was great. If all you want from your ruckman is to win taps, then he's pretty average. If you value work around the ground, particularly defensively, then he's been outstanding

 

[Paracleet]

Yep, plenty.

In the ruck? Or good around the ground?

Not sure he's had even a single win in just ruck side has he?

 

[Scham]

Been in the coaches votes the last two games in a row, and his last third of the season last year was great. If all you want from your ruckman is to win taps, then he's pretty average. If you value work around the ground, particularly defensively, then he's been outstanding

Yep, and building all the time. Considering most draft judges thought he'd take 5 years to become a decent AFL player and rucks do seem to take longer to hit their peak, he should only get better.

 

[Virgin Dog]

In the ruck? Or good around the ground?

Not sure he's had even a single win in just ruck side has he?

If we lived in a world where the only thing rucks needed to do is win a tap, Tom Campbell would be a superstar

 

[Hammersoup12]

Yeah if English was going anywhere, he'd have left a year ago before re-signing. We've put ourselves behind in the short time by insisting on playing him as solo number 1 ruck despite only being 22 and needing improvement in many areas. We're finally starting to see results from that, so no pick offer would entice us regardless of how good it looks. His girlfriend is from the east coast too, and plays netball over there

Freo would be crazy to trade out of the top end when O'Driscoll and DGB are both looking like potential top 5 picks this year. I'd especially be looking at O'Driscoll - he's a ball winning, hard tackling burst mid with kick penetration that Freo's midfield is screaming out for

Is O’Driscoll looking better than Trew? Your description sounds pretty well exactly what we need. What’s his efficiency like??


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[Paracleet]

If we lived in a world where the only thing rucks needed to do is win a tap, Tom Campbell would be a superstar

True, it's: It's not just about taps won: It's taps to advantage and taps to the oppositions advantage prevented. Which are two things I think it is fair to say he is not doing much of yet. How effective he becomes as a ruckman is going to be the deciding factor ultimately between being a niche B grader and star of the comp.

 

[Unique Name]

Yep, plenty.

As a ruckman in the ruck? No. Around the ground yes.

His ruckwork is dog poop.

Been in the coaches votes the last two games in a row, and his last third of the season last year was great. If all you want from your ruckman is to win taps, then he's pretty average. If you value work around the ground, particularly defensively, then he's been outstanding

Exactly He's a tall midfielder. His ruck work is probably the worst in the AFL.

 

[Virgin Dog]

True, it's: It's not just about taps won: It's taps to advantage and taps to the oppositions advantage prevented. Which are two things I think it is fair to say he is not doing much of yet. How effective becomes as a ruckman is going to be the deciding factor ultimately between being a niche B grader and star of the comp.

He matched Goldstein on hitouts to advantage last week, so it's an area he's definitely improving in. The thing about English is that I doubt he will ever be the type of ruckman to dominate the taps - we've built our midfield around their ability to compensate for this by reading the opposition ruckman and sharking their taps.

Without Dunkley, Bont and Macrae in our midfield, English would be worthless to us realistically. I don't think his kind of ruckman is suited to a midfield like Fremantle's. You need the ruck who is capable of delivering the ball to the classier users in the side, which is something I think Darcy can offer going forward if he is able to stay fit. If Darcy and English were to swap positions, both would be in far worse positions than they currently are

 

[Unique Name]

If we lived in a world where the only thing rucks needed to do is win a tap, Tom Campbell would be a superstar

NicNat has dined out for the last 8yrs on what he can do in the ruck. Around the ground you're lucky if he gives you a 5min burst of play in 120 mins of gameplay.

 

[GoFreo4eva]

I am really bothered by the regularly raised concerns re Sean Darcy. He is going almost as well as English in most stat categories and is well ahead in hit-outs 29.9 vs 16.8 which is, I would have thought one of the primary stats to look at in a ruckman. English is a good player and is ahead on Disposals by about 3 per game and marks by the same margin so these are areas to be focussed on for Darcy. Darcy is judged pretty harshly here by quite a few who seem to forget he is still young and pretty raw. I get the concern re durability but it seems that is in part born out of his gangliness and the immaturity of his body coordination. Most bigs are starting to hit their straps at 25+. At 22 he is doing fine. Certainly, he is not the biggest issue we have in the midfield right now and it seems just strange to consider trading him out for a draft pick or even a slightly more established ruckman with likely little upside. Crazy talk for mine as matters stand but I guess we have see how it all plays out. English is going to be a very good player but there is little chance we prise him out of the Dogs unless he plays the homesick card and that seems unlikely.

 

[Unique Name]

He matched Goldstein on hitouts to advantage last week, so it's an area he's definitely improving in. The thing about English is that I doubt he will ever be the type of ruckman to dominate the taps - we've built our midfield around their ability to compensate for this by reading the opposition ruckman and sharking their taps.

Without Dunkley, Bont and Macrae in our midfield, English would be worthless to us realistically. I don't think his kind of ruckman is suited to a midfield like Fremantle's. You need the ruck who is capable of delivering the ball to the classier users in the side, which is something I think Darcy can offer going forward if he is able to stay fit. If Darcy and English were to swap positions, both would be in far worse positions than they currently are

This season our midfield have had some major lapses at the centre bounce where if they didn't get the ball on a silver platter the opposition just walked the ball out and kicked multiple goals in a row.

 

[Virgin Dog]

Is O’Driscoll looking better than Trew? Your description sounds pretty well exactly what we need. What’s his efficiency like??


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From what I've seen of O'Driscoll, he's a fairly good user when it comes to inside mids. He's the type to win his own ball and not then waste it with by shanking or delivering a slow, loopy kick. I haven't seen enough of Trew to give a fair comparison, but I'd say Trew is more of an accumulator, while his usage isn't as good as O'Driscoll (but it's not terrible, just more of a short distance kicker rather than delivering long, line breaking kicks). If given the choice, I'd take O'Driscoll before Trew, and I think Freo should too

 

[nurries]

From what I've seen of O'Driscoll, he's a fairly good user when it comes to inside mids. He's the type to win his own ball and not then waste it with by shanking or delivering a slow, loopy kick. I haven't seen enough of Trew to give a fair comparison, but I'd say Trew is more of an accumulator, while his usage isn't as good as O'Driscoll (but it's not terrible, just more of a short distance kicker rather than delivering long, line breaking kicks). If given the choice, I'd take O'Driscoll before Trew, and I think Freo should too

Especially with his big sis playing for Freo AFLW

 

[Virgin Dog]

I am really bothered by the regularly raised concerns re Sean Darcy. He is going almost as well as English in most stat categories and is well ahead in hit-outs 29.9 vs 16.8 which is, I would have thought one of the primary stats to look at in a ruckman. English is a good player and is ahead on Disposals by about 3 per game and marks by the same margin so these are areas to be focussed on for Darcy. Darcy is judged pretty harshly here by quite a few who seem to forget he is still young and pretty raw. I get the concern re durability but it seems that is in part born out of his gangliness and the immaturity of his body coordination. Most bigs are starting to hit their straps at 25+. At 22 he is doing fine. Certainly, he is not the biggest issue we have in the midfield right now and it seems just strange to consider trading him out for a draft pick or even a slightly more established ruckman with likely little upside. Crazy talk for mine as matters stand but I guess we have see how it all plays out. English is going to be a very good player but there is little chance we prise him out of the Dogs unless he plays the homesick card and that seems unlikely.

To be perfectly honest, the comparisons between Darcy and English start and stop with their age. Past that, they have completely different strengths, completely different play styles and are playing in completely different environments.

I am quite confident that Darcy can become a very good ruckman, but he will be offering significantly different traits than English. Sean Darcy can offer a solid presence, dominating stoppages with his size and strength - a bit like a Shane Mumford. English, on the other hand, functions as an extra midfielder, intercepting from defence, providing options up the wing and providing a tall target up forward when required, whereas it is accepted that he WILL lose the taps more often than not