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F_therest

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2013
15,062
30,990
AFL Club
Carlton
I'm pretty simple in looking at where we should target - it isnt as much 'where' it is 'what' for me.

Down back we've got Weitering
In the middle we have Cripps and Walsh
Up front we have Harry and (hopefully) Charlie

Everyone else is a 'role' player based on current form - and some are 'just' potential role players.

We need 2-3 more A graders to hit the magic required 8 of this type number. We have never been anywhere near that in 20 years.

So yeah - Williams would be an absolute great get- ticks the A grader box.


Also ( as an aside) I would be looking at big Joe Daniher - for the ultimate middle finger up to Essendon - my favourite non-Carlton player and he would look great wearing the ODNB
I'm actually not sure i'd rate Williams as an A grader. He has his A grader moments bu he's not consistently at that level.

I wouldn't say he's a star of the competition and he's probably not even in the top handful of half backs, and if we're planning on playing him in the midfield, then he probably wouldn't be in the top 50 mids.

He's a good, solid player who fills a need of ours - a player who can play half back and midfield who has some line-breaking speed.
 

Jimmae

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 4, 2003
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Is this Callum Moore you speaking about ?

If so you would have more chance of Levi becoming a mid , He is a HF/FP that can lead high but no chance becoming a mid
I've seen differently in game footage. He's a headless chook at AFL level, but that's what coaching is for...

Appreciate that he'll never be Cripps, but as a back up to him, it's worth making the one year investment in his raw attributes.

You literally said nothing about Kennedy bar delist?

Kennedy when given opportunity has shown potential at AFL level both as a forward and a midfielder. But unfortunately he can't get a game regardless of how poorly other favourites perform.

Moore in two games and at Richmond prior showed nothing at AFL level.

Further if Kennedy was bad as you seem to believe he could be delisted and rookied. It wouldn't work because a club that wasn't brain dead would snap him up.

Absolutely no chance he is delisted, traded possibly. But I doubt even that.
You are delusional about Kennedy's output. I can't make it any plainer than that at this point: I've highlighted it numerous times, and there's even been comments from those in the know on it.

He's done, because he physically cannot compete at AFL level.

SPS has proven he can play good football and actually often does despite playing in a very unnatural position.

He’s learnt a lot over the last 18 months and is ready to be unleashed back into the middle or even better HFF.

One of the last players we should be trading, and certainly not an “Orourke”.
SPS is our O'Rourke in the sense that repeated hamstring issues have curtailed what we thought we were getting. In the case of O'Rourke they should have been far more obvious because his running style as a junior made him look like he was trying to push through a hamstring injury.

I like him, but we have too many players who are lacking pace for their positional play. SPS is one of those and if the right offer comes along, we should be looking to bring in some speedy outside types who can football.

I get the impression that people have taken 'trade bait' to mean 'get rid of these guys', when all I meant was that we should be open to standard offers on these players, as opposed to asking for over-the-top value like we would for Cripps or McKay.

My mistake for thinking you didn't put me in the same category as the Cornes brothers.

A rookie list spot is still a spot. Cat B etc are just ways to keep the price down.
You read my post, I just focused on who you are prepared to sell. I reads like a rebuild yet Moore makes the cut.
Trade bait: Marchbank, JSOS, O'Brien, Casboult, Cuningham, Plowman, Fisher, SPS
A rookie spot in this case is equivalent to pick 130. You are going way over the top.

Normally I like your opinions Jimbo, but on Newman you are deadwrong. He has been a superb pick up for us and should be safe as houses here.
If we get Williams, he's odds on to be in the reserves next year. He may not even want to stay under those circumstances. Aside from best 22, I put Marchbank ahead of him as well.

Once again, like Kennedy, there is a failure to recognise that he lacks the ability to cover the ground required to mark his typical opponents. When you have names like Docherty, SPS and Witherden being mentioned as part of next year's defensive unit, where do you see him fitting in?

I wouldn't begrudge him seeking another opportunity, and I'd be hesitant to keep him if he's above senior averages for his position. If your valuation was shared by people in the football community, I'd be looking to trade him.
 

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slashin_velvet

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 5, 2011
7,261
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Shane McAdam - pre-draft year - 31 goals from 17 SANFL games. Last year 22 goals from 14 games
Tobin Cox last year - 30 goals from 15 games in the SANFL - and cut from the Port Adelaide list today

Reckon he'd be an interesting one to watch as DFA - he's a little bit older and more mature, and has improved his fitness since drafting - shaved 30-40 seconds off his time trial earlier this year. He was flagged as their Robbie Gray replacement, and now finds himself without a list spot.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
18,802
30,250
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I'm actually not sure i'd rate Williams as an A grader. He has his A grader moments bu he's not consistently at that level.

I wouldn't say he's a star of the competition and he's probably not even in the top handful of half backs, and if we're planning on playing him in the midfield, then he probably wouldn't be in the top 50 mids.

He's a good, solid player who fills a need of ours - a player who can play half back and midfield who has some line-breaking speed.
If GWS are stoopid enough to let him go - and he comes to us - we are big winners - kid can play well enough for me to forgive his tatts even. :thumbsu: ;)
 

BigBreakfast

Club Legend
Sep 19, 2019
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I've seen differently in game footage. He's a headless chook at AFL level, but that's what coaching is for...

Appreciate that he'll never be Cripps, but as a back up to him, it's worth making the one year investment in his raw attributes.


You are delusional about Kennedy's output. I can't make it any plainer than that at this point: I've highlighted it numerous times, and there's even been comments from those in the know on it.

He's done, because he physically cannot compete at AFL level.


SPS is our O'Rourke in the sense that repeated hamstring issues have curtailed what we thought we were getting. In the case of O'Rourke they should have been far more obvious because his running style as a junior made him look like he was trying to push through a hamstring injury.

I like him, but we have too many players who are lacking pace for their positional play. SPS is one of those and if the right offer comes along, we should be looking to bring in some speedy outside types who can football.

I get the impression that people have taken 'trade bait' to mean 'get rid of these guys', when all I meant was that we should be open to standard offers on these players, as opposed to asking for over-the-top value like we would for Cripps or McKay.

My mistake for thinking you didn't put me in the same category as the Cornes brothers.


A rookie spot in this case is equivalent to pick 130. You are going way over the top.


If we get Williams, he's odds on to be in the reserves next year. He may not even want to stay under those circumstances. Aside from best 22, I put Marchbank ahead of him as well.

Once again, like Kennedy, there is a failure to recognise that he lacks the ability to cover the ground required to mark his typical opponents. When you have names like Docherty, SPS and Witherden being mentioned as part of next year's defensive unit, where do you see him fitting in?

I wouldn't begrudge him seeking another opportunity, and I'd be hesitant to keep him if he's above senior averages for his position. If your valuation was shared by people in the football community, I'd be looking to trade him.
Is this your version of howling at the moon?
 

true blue19

Club Legend
Oct 18, 2008
1,779
804
AFL Club
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Shane McAdam - pre-draft year - 31 goals from 17 SANFL games. Last year 22 goals from 14 games
Tobin Cox last year - 30 goals from 15 games in the SANFL - and cut from the Port Adelaide list today

Reckon he'd be an interesting one to watch as DFA - he's a little bit older and more mature, and has improved his fitness since drafting - shaved 30-40 seconds off his time trial earlier this year. He was flagged as their Robbie Gray replacement, and now finds himself without a list spot.
Could be a perfect fit for us.
 

Arr0w

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 13, 2015
22,691
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I agree with you but to attain that speedy accumulator would really be the icing on the cake for me.

What's there to be attained from pursuing the likes of Witherden, Graham, Wright etc?
Even if they somehow made us a little better, what's the consequence of taking on too many players that we then feel the need to slot straight into the team next year? No one thinks about this.

People will disagree but - What happened when we took on Newnes last year? Newman the year before?
When we trade for players we somehow invariably give them first bite of the cherry.

Neither Newnes nor Newman stood out in the respective first pre-season with us, but when the teams were named they were there and to a large degree, remained there even when they weren't playing well. This deprives opportunity to others until we realise.....gee, they weren't really that good, were they?

Given where we were last year, I would have sooner given the right young 5/10 player the opportunity to develop in the main team as opposed to the 6/10 senior player that just won't get any better. Fremantle provided opportunity from the get-go to Brayshaw, Cerra, Logue, Young and Serong and now they're all a part of their best team. (Injury did hold back Logue and Young though, but they showed plenty when there.)

So what happens when we keep players in the reserves for too long? I know exactly what happens. I've seen it all too often.

I worry for our lack of development and I know we're better resourced now, but we'll want to be and getting back to point #1 - Let's not be too smart by throwing darts all over the board. Give me one or two bullseyes every day of the week.
Players didn't stand out in preseason? That's why it's called preseason
 

Wickzki

Premium Platinum
Oct 1, 2010
16,492
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Delist: Cottrell (r)
Interested in your thoughts on Cottrell, Jimmae.

He's not the most skilled player but what he makes up for in skill is dogged determination. He's the first obvious player that we've had with mongrel (Robbo style) since Mitch Robinson left. It's something that I feel that we've lacked.

Seems to be the ideal player you have sitting in the 23-35 ranked players on a list who can come in and play their role with grit.

What's the go? Have I missed something? I haven't read this forum much since July so if I have, please accept my apology.
 

Drexl 31

Team Captain
Sep 13, 2011
497
828
Melbourne, Australia
AFL Club
Carlton
Williams would be ideal (as a HBF)
We need someone to replace Betts in the team, a genuinely quick, goal kicking, tackling forward pocket.

Sure another good mid would be nice, but more than that I'd prefer a good midfield coach. We've got plenty of midfield talent, even if much of it is young and unproven, but they don't function well enough as a group. You would hope that another pre-season and good coaching would be enough to rectify it.

Beyond that, we need a 3rd ruckman, and a KPD to develop.

So it probably looks like minimal changes to many. Fingers crossed for Williams (rightfully our no.1 target) then perhaps one more current player, and 2-3 draftees.
Right on the money. Any chance of J. Kelly donning the navy blue next season?
 

Accidental genius

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 4, 2018
6,657
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One thing I’ve noticed about j Kelly is that I don’t seem to notice him all that much in games compared to other star players like danger and dusty. So often dusty and danger win games for their teams. But even when j Kelly is talked about as having a had a very good game I don’t see it. Am I missing something about the way he plays?
 

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Doro

Collective Narcissism Support Group
Sep 22, 2011
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One thing I’ve noticed about j Kelly is that I don’t seem to notice him all that much in games compared to other star players like danger and dusty. So often dusty and danger win games for their teams. But even when j Kelly is talked about as having a had a very good game I don’t see it. Am I missing something about the way he plays?
That would be my biggest criticism of Kelly, he tends to roll with the momentum of a game rather than change it himself. I do wonder if he might improve at a different club though.
 

Sheephead

Club Legend
Nov 23, 2009
1,329
3,201
In a good paddock
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Carlton
Anyway, onto the here and now, and assuming list sizes remain the same:

Retired: Simpson, Kreuzer
Potential retirements: Betts
Delist: Kennedy, O'Dwyer, Lang, Polson, Goddard (r), Cottrell (r)
Possible delist: Newman, Macreadie, Moore (r), F.Phillips (r)

Trade bait: Marchbank, JSOS, O'Brien, Casboult, Cuningham, Plowman, Fisher, SPS

Ideal FA/trade acquisitions: Williams, Crouch (subject to medical)

Ideal draft candidate: Will Phillips


Potential best 22, assuming Betts retires:

FB: Plowman/Marchbank Jones Williamson
HB: Docherty Weitering Williams
C: Walsh E.Curnow O'Brien
HF: Martin C.Curnow Fisher
FF: Kemp McKay Cuningham

R: TDK Cripps Crouch

Int: Setterfield, Murphy, W.Phillips, SPS

EMG:
Dow, Gibbons/Newnes, Casboult, JSOS/McGovern

Next 22:

FB: Plowman/Marchbank BSOS Newman
HB: ??? Macreadie ???
C: Newnes Philp Ramsay
HF: Honey McGovern Gibbons
FF: JSOS Casboult Owies

R: Pittonet Moore Dow

Int: Stocker, F.Phillips, ???, ???

This reveals our clearest needs at the draft beyond a premium mid: smaller defenders, forwards and mids. Players who can zip around the field and execute foot skills consistently. Of that shortlist, small forwards would be the least pressing, but if the draft order falls our way we should definitely snap up any talent.

The other obvious gap is that we probably need to bring in an athletic KPD to develop over time, in case Macreadie or BSOS never develop to replace Jones. KPF stocks also look a bit thin, but there's some flexibility due to TDK, Cripps and Kemp, alongside JSOS, Moore and McGovern, though Moore needs a lot of work.

Some might feel that Moore could solve the KPD issue, but I would honestly prefer to train him in the midfield group and see what he can produce. Get him lean and see what he can do throwing his weight around after training some stoppage reads all summer.
I wouldn’t delist Kennedy at all. Yeah he’s as slow as a Kenworth, but can go forward and does get the footy some. I think he’s a very good foil/running mate for Cripps. Swapping 80/20 in the forward line to release tags.

I’d retain Cottrell over Ramsay and Phillips, neither has jumped up like Owies or Honey. I can see a bit of Mitch in this kid and he’s a link runner, we need link runners. Delist Moore and BSOS as well. Neither will force their way into this team going forward. Retain Macreadie.

Newman is the anomaly for me. Just doesn’t move the needle for me and I would love Stocker to come back and take the Simmo role. I honestly don’t think Williams is coming.

There’s a spot for Marchbank, a class footballer. Remember 95. Silvagni, Dean, Sexton, Christou, McKay, Hogg. That’s Weitering, Jones, Marchbank, Plowman, Docherty, Stocker In 2021.

I really really like this Phillips kid in the draft. Was very good at 16’s level.
 

Gavstar

Premiership Player
Sep 15, 2011
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That would be my biggest criticism of Kelly, he tends to roll with the momentum of a game rather than change it himself. I do wonder if he might improve at a different club though.
He was that player in 2017, since he signed the contract his performance has come back to the pack. Bit of a theme at GWS
 

FRUMPY

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 18, 2006
18,107
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Melbourne
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The player contracts thread says McGovern was given a 5 year deal...

How is that accurate? Can't find anything that says he was given 5 years.
I always presumed 4 years - not many players change clubs for a 2 year deal. Adelaide would have been offering a 2 year deal at a minimum. Players want guaranteed years as an incentive to leave (and the big bucks over those years).
 

katmanblue

Norm Smith Medallist
Nov 27, 2016
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Interested in your thoughts on Cottrell, Jimmae.

He's not the most skilled player but what he makes up for in skill is dogged determination. He's the first obvious player that we've had with mongrel (Robbo style) since Mitch Robinson left. It's something that I feel that we've lacked.

Seems to be the ideal player you have sitting in the 23-35 ranked players on a list who can come in and play their role with grit.

What's the go? Have I missed something? I haven't read this forum much since July so if I have, please accept my apology.
Especially added to the fact that's he's on peanuts

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

ItsAllAboutMe

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Dec 22, 2006
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It is interesting that Betts has not announced his retirement, i think most of us expect him to be retired or at the very least not offered a new contract.. and the fact his family flew up for the last game of the season was a sign that he is playing his last game... I get giving Simpson some time, but would have thought it would be announced by now..

Only conclusion is that perhaps the club genuinely have not made up their minds, or Eddie is wanting to play on and will look at other clubs if we delist him.. I doubt anyone else will take him on, so would be a shame for him to go out like that.
 
Sep 10, 2020
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It is interesting that Betts has not announced his retirement, i think most of us expect him to be retired or at the very least not offered a new contract.. and the fact his family flew up for the last game of the season was a sign that he is playing his last game... I get giving Simpson some time, but would have thought it would be announced by now..

Only conclusion is that perhaps the club genuinely have not made up their minds, or Eddie is wanting to play on and will look at other clubs if we delist him.. I doubt anyone else will take him on, so would be a shame for him to go out like that.
A lot of players families have came up recently. Wouldn't read anything into that. Eddie wants to play, Teague wants him to play. Others at the club don't
 

Mezzoculo

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Sep 5, 2013
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It is interesting that Betts has not announced his retirement, i think most of us expect him to be retired or at the very least not offered a new contract.. and the fact his family flew up for the last game of the season was a sign that he is playing his last game... I get giving Simpson some time, but would have thought it would be announced by now..

Only conclusion is that perhaps the club genuinely have not made up their minds, or Eddie is wanting to play on and will look at other clubs if we delist him.. I doubt anyone else will take him on, so would be a shame for him to go out like that.
As Greek Freak said, lots of players are bringing (or have brought) families up to the hubs so they could have a post-season holiday away from Fort Melbourne.
 

ItsAllAboutMe

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 22, 2006
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A lot of players families have came up recently. Wouldn't read anything into that. Eddie wants to play, Teague wants him to play. Others at the club don't
If this is accurate it will be the first time I would have concerns about DT as our coach.. Blind Freddie can see that the Eddie experiment has not worked, it was fun and am glad we tried, but Eddie is past it.. He can no longer do the tricks he used to be able to and has become a liability in our forward line. We need to move on from him.
 

slashin_velvet

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If this is accurate it will be the first time I would have concerns about DT as our coach.. Blind Freddie can see that the Eddie experiment has not worked, it was fun and am glad we tried, but Eddie is past it.. He can no longer do the tricks he used to be able to and has become a liability in our forward line. We need to move on from him.
I heard someone (but now forget who) say not to read too much into the families going up. A lot of them are planning to stay up the coast for their end of season so bringing their families up before returning to Melbourne.
 

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