List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

Remove this Banner Ad

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jimmae said:
Moving this over to List Management.


Again: you have cherry picked examples that I never raised. I have refuted most of those players at the time of their drafting, so I don't know what more to offer you than my own vision of what to do.

We have the opportunity to make surer bets on players, which several top 10 draft options are. I cannot predict how their careers will go, but we can assess their mentality, their skill and the game sense pretty easily via tape, and then they have medical and psychological assessments alongside that. Their family history also gets somewhat canvased by clubs.

I have given you two very obvious draftable candidates at around pick 7: Wil Phillips and Elijah Hollands. Go and watch some video of them, and tell me how Saad is better than them.

Then just as some samples, go look at Macrae, Perkins, Ford, Laurie, Cox, Henry and Carroll, then explain to me how you would dispense with one or two of them ahead of Saad, keeping in mind that while not all are ready made, you can pick 2 ready made players from that list.


The 2015 draft? From what I can see, the only names I'd have him ahead of are:

Schache, who I repeatedly identified as not being a good key forward prospect at the time
Francis, who has never got his body right, but is showing signs
Ah Chee, who I did not rate highly and was selected by Clayton, who has long proven himself to be an idiot speculator with high draft selections
Kennedy, another who I highlighted at the time, and again when we traded for him
Doedee, who was a consensus wild card selection from Adelaide, from a regime that has cooked their list and resources from then on due to new list management
Lovell, who came into the league with a host of injury concerns and was undersized for his projected role
Keays, who I again at the time highlighted that he was overrated due to his inability to physically compete to an AFL standard

2016:

Scrimshaw, who slid on character concerns and was later traded due to mental health issues, and is now starting to come good as a general defender who might push into the midfield
Brodie, who I again highlighted at the time, and still do when people evaluate him as a trade target
Bowes, another whom I highlighted as overvalued at the time
Venables, another that I was iffy on
Gallucci, another I didn't rate this high and lo and behold Adelaide targeted him in another desperate bid to bring speed into a team of plodders and endurance runners
Marshall, who I was bullish on if he could build his body up and work on his kicking technique; he has done neither, and the physical development issues would have mostly been picked up in the medical screening

Eliminating for consensus, clear and obvious bias, those who are clearly on an uptick, obvious injury histories/medical concerns, and players that required significant further development, and you're left with one or two genuine fu** ups in each top 25, and then a bunch of instances where clubs either failed to trade down to get their guy, or failed to manage the obvious player issues post-draft.

We have live trading now, so I see most of these issues as eliminated. More examples, please!



Hawthorn is a terrible example, as is the Smith selection given he didn't take his pathway to AFL seriously until he was 19. Hawthorn are ironically following the path of the 1999-2002 Bombers and are slowly letting the bottom fall out while they try to stay relevant. They are not a shining example of how to sustain success long term giving their refusal to go back to the draft properly, they just used their aura to pillage free agents for years, as North tried to, and Geelong have tried to... notice a pattern?

If Essendon are going to ignore facts and clear data, then Saad will walk. They didn't pay a first for him in a draft that is about the same level of quality in terms of the top 30-40, and they haven't developed him further.

They can't keep him due to cultural concerns, they didn't pay him fairly: they don't get to play hardball when he comes out of contract. Max value is our second rounder, and I would be trying to water that down by parting ways with a surplus depth player that meets their requirements.
Click to expand...
Trade won’t happen if that is the maximum. I think your rating is below what most would consider reasonable
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Sorry if this has already been posted but it is mind boggling to say the least,
If what I heard on the Blue Abroud Bluemour show about Didoro’s asking price to Carlton for Saad is true he has to be the biggest tosser in the history of list management.

Believe this if you can, he wants Pick 7 and one of either Charlie, Harry or Walsh for Saad, what a dickhead we should refuse to take his calls after that, what an insult, and then 10 minutes before the end of the trade period ring him and offer a late 5th take it or leave it DoDo, fair dinkum what a loose cannon he is.

I thought his demand for Daniher last year was outlandish but that takes the cake he needs to be hospitalised and given shock treatment until his delusions subside, a few in the media should be right along with him too, I think that nut Slobbo said pick 7 and something else, fair dinkum are they really that out of touch.
 
Last edited:
murphster said:
Sorry if this has already been posted but it is mind boggling to say the least,
If what I heard on the Blue Abroud Bluemour show about Didoro’s asking price to Carlton for Saad is true he has to be the biggest tosser in the history of list management.

Believe this if you can, he wants Pick 7 and one of either Charlie, Harry or Walsh for Saad, what a dickhead we should refuse to take his calls after that, what an insult, and then 10 minutes before the end of the trade period ring him and offer a late 5th take it or leave it DoDo, fair dinkum what a loose cannon he is.

I thought his demand for Daniher last year was outlandish but that takes the cake he needs to be hospitalised and given shock treatment until his delusions subside, a few in the media should be right along with him too, I think that nut Slobbo said pick 7 and something else, fair dinkum are they really that out of touch.
Click to expand...


That was posted on our Board a few weeks ago also TDK was mentioned.
 
Blockbuster trade between Carlton, Essendon and Brisbane.

Make it happen Austin :)

Carlton In: Rayner, Saad
Carlton Out: Pick 7, Pick 27

Brisbane In: Daniher, Pick 27
Brisbane Out: Rayner, Pick 19

Essendon In: Pick 7, Pick 19
Essendon Out: Daniher, Saad
 
Eiffel 65 said:
Blockbuster trade between Carlton, Essendon and Brisbane.

Make it happen Austin :)

Carlton In: Rayner, Saad
Carlton Out: Pick 7, Pick 27

Brisbane In: Daniher, Pick 27
Brisbane Out: Rayner, Pick 19

Essendon In: Pick 7, Pick 19
Essendon Out: Daniher, Saad
Click to expand...
Is this a rumour or your thoughts

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
 
JeSOS said:
Not doing anything apart from throwing it out there, because it didn’t really interest me at the time, however, a family member is marrying a player manager.
A couple of years ago, and after a dozen or so JD’s and cokes each, he mentioned that Cam Rayner was going to come to us but changed his mind last minute and re-signed with the lions. It was thought to do with how we were as a club at the time.
He then went on to say that Rayner would go to * after his current contract because he wasn’t happy at Brisvegas and grew up an * supporter.
He’s OOC next year and he’s still playing finals and * are not the kind of club many (if any) would want to go to right now.

Could he be one of those we’re looking at?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
jpfalvo said:
Is this a rumour or your thoughts

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

My thoughts jpfalvo after reading the above from JeSOS.

That deal would be relatively fair for all parties involved. Maybe there's some additional back end pick swaps that might go the Lion's favour, but it would certainly be in the ballpark of what is reasonable without anyone getting screwed over.
 
The Shag said:
Would like to see us trade off Plowman whilst his value is probably at its highest... majorly regretful for not doing this when Bret Thornton commanded 2 x 2nd rounders from hawthorn.
We have matchbank and jsos who would play this position more effectively.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I feel like this is a piss take?
Surely you can't be serious?
 
Eiffel 65 said:
Blockbuster trade between Carlton, Essendon and Brisbane.

Make it happen Austin :)

Carlton In: Rayner, Saad
Carlton Out: Pick 7, Pick 27

Brisbane In: Daniher, Pick 27
Brisbane Out: Rayner, Pick 19

Essendon In: Pick 7, Pick 19
Essendon Out: Daniher, Saad
Click to expand...

So you're giving Essendon Pick 27 for Saad when they want something in the first round, and giving Pick 7 for Rayner, the 3rd year developing former Pick 1.

I don't think the other teams would entertain this for a second.
 
Swans just delisted a kid called Ryley Stoddart. He presents as a med/tall defender but I recall in his draft year he could play fwd too. Great mark, takes the game on, nice left foot.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Eiffel 65 said:
Blockbuster trade between Carlton, Essendon and Brisbane.

Make it happen Austin :)

Carlton In: Rayner, Saad
Carlton Out: Pick 7, Pick 27

Brisbane In: Daniher, Pick 27
Brisbane Out: Rayner, Pick 19

Essendon In: Pick 7, Pick 19
Essendon Out: Daniher, Saad
Click to expand...
Carlton: bandits
Lions: pissed off
*: who the hell cares
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
So you're giving Essendon Pick 27 for Saad when they want something in the first round, and giving Pick 7 for Rayner, the 3rd year developing former Pick 1.

I don't think the other teams would entertain this for a second.
Click to expand...

I reckon Rayner is worth a pick between 10-15 and Saad a pick between 18-25.

Rayner was taken at #1, but I don't think he's done anything to justify that selection thus far. That may change, but he's still got a long way to go. If he was down here in Melbourne, he would be heavily maligned. The other reality is that the 2017 draft doesn't appear to be very strong. As such, top end prospects from this draft would struggle to hold value.

I couldn't see another club trading pick 3 for Dow, 4 for LDU, 5 for Stephenson etc. if they were on the trade table.

If you isolate the trade per team, you'll notice that Essendon lose Daniher and Saad but gain picks 7 & 19.

Daniher = 7 (early first)
Saad = 19 (late first)

That's realistic and fair from an Essendon perspective.

If Brisbane were getting unders, you could add another 2nd.

Carlton In: Rayner, Saad
Carlton Out: Pick 7, Pick 27, 2nd (2021)

Brisbane In: Daniher, Pick 27, CFC 2nd (2021)
Brisbane Out: Rayner, Pick 19

Essendon In: Pick 7, Pick 19
Essendon Out: Daniher, Saad

How does that look? That would value Rayner at the same price as Daniher (pick 7) and Saad at 2 x 2nd rounders from a trade perspective.

The reality is Brisbane will need to offer something up apart from picks to get Daniher over the line because they come into the draft too late.

Will be interesting to see how Brisbane approach this trade because I reckon Essendon will want more than the FA compensation pick.
 
Last edited:
murphster said:
Sorry if this has already been posted but it is mind boggling to say the least,
If what I heard on the Blue Abroud Bluemour show about Didoro’s asking price to Carlton for Saad is true he has to be the biggest tosser in the history of list management.

Believe this if you can, he wants Pick 7 and one of either Charlie, Harry or Walsh for Saad, what a dickhead we should refuse to take his calls after that, what an insult, and then 10 minutes before the end of the trade period ring him and offer a late 5th take it or leave it DoDo, fair dinkum what a loose cannon he is.

I thought his demand for Daniher last year was outlandish but that takes the cake he needs to be hospitalised and given shock treatment until his delusions subside, a few in the media should be right along with him too, I think that nut Slobbo said pick 7 and something else, fair dinkum are they really that out of touch.
Click to expand...
Funny thing quite a few media people and platforms have actually believed and commented that *** can recover very quickly with their rebuild by going to the draft armed with picks 6,7 (Daniher compo) & 8 (Carlton pick for Saad) not too mention players and other picks included ontop of them as well... F’kn hilarious, the way Dodoro is going about things from reports it’s possible things might get very messy and hopefully end up with sfa... Geez the melts would be gold...
 
FitzroyBlueBagger said:
Funny thing quite a few media people and platforms have actually believed and commented that *** can recover very quickly with their rebuild by going to the draft armed with picks 6,7 (Daniher compo) & 8 (Carlton pick for Saad) not too mention players and other picks included ontop of them as well... F’kn hilarious, the way Dodoro is going about things from reports it’s possible things might get very messy and hopefully end up with sfa... Geez the melts would be gold...
Click to expand...
Probably the same people in the media who praised Hawthorn’s “1 year rebuild” where they dropped out of the finals then added Mitchell and Jaeger...
 
Just an observation, the body shapes of the 4 preliminary final teams are completely different to ours. Everyone is muscled up.
Russell seems to have made us more lean, which meant we were better than most running out games. Or is it that we just haven't done enough pre seasons?
In the rough and tumble when the umpires put the whistle away, is it strength or stamina that wins?
I can't see our list looking phsyically like the Cats in the next 2 years.
No doubt Russell is an expert but we seem to be on a different path.
Will this be a factor?
CB
 
CJMB said:
Probably the same people in the media who praised Hawthorn’s “1 year rebuild” where they dropped out of the finals then added Mitchell and Jaeger...
Click to expand...
Clarkson has openly stated he believes it’s too hard rebuilding through the draft because it’s so compromised, i believe that’s a bit of a deflection they really needed to keep most of their first rounders they traded away once their time as a contender was obviously over..
They needed to regenerate their next lot of stars through the draft build the next foundation of success, he like a lot of coaches have been guilty of seem to top up to stay competitive possibly believing they are better than what they really are, sacrificing the future for staying competitive...
 
CoachB said:
Just an observation, the body shapes of the 4 preliminary final teams are completely different to ours. Everyone is muscled up.
Russell seems to have made us more lean, which meant we were better than most running out games. Or is it that we just haven't done enough pre seasons?
In the rough and tumble when the umpires put the whistle away, is it strength or stamina that wins?
I can't see our list looking phsyically like the Cats in the next 2 years.
No doubt Russell is an expert but we seem to be on a different path.
Will this be a factor?
CB
Click to expand...

Have to agree that some of our players regardless of Russell’s training philosophy, hardly look like they’ve been inside a weights room.
 
It would be a bitter pill to swallow and wouldn't feel comfortable..
But at the end of the day I probably would, I want my kids to see a flag..

If Oliver is true we could probably get him and Treloar.

Treloar - Pick 7
Oliver - Mckay :'(
Saad - Pick 27 and Kennedy or 2021 1st and something back
Williams - FA

+ Either Trade for Brown or FA Cameron

Plowman...Jones...Newman
Docherty...Weitering... Saad

Williams...Cripps...Walsh
TDK...Oliver...Treloar

Martin...Brown/Cameron...Cuningham
McGovern...Curnow...Betts

Out of the team above only 7 would have been drafted and 11 traded in by us which is pretty poor
 
Sheephead said:
Swans just delisted a kid called Ryley Stoddart. He presents as a med/tall defender but I recall in his draft year he could play fwd too. Great mark, takes the game on, nice left foot.
Click to expand...
More interested in Tom Murphy, who would command far less interest and salary while being more disciplined and athletic.
 
The Shag said:
Would like to see us trade off Plowman whilst his value is probably at its highest... majorly regretful for not doing this when Bret Thornton commanded 2 x 2nd rounders from hawthorn.
We have matchbank and jsos who would play this position more effectively.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Let’s trade Cripps while his value is highest too. Would get us at least 3 first rounders we can speculate on.

Plow bashing gives me the s**** and he will finish higher on the B and F than Cripps this year.
 
The Shag said:
Mate, i haven’t answered your question because, multiple posts later, you’re dissecting words for the sake of defending a player that you rate.. everything else you’re saying I agree with. We are at a point where we move into the next phase of list management.. and that needs to be a proactive style. We can’t just sit back and rest because we’ve gone through the hardest years. As Carlton supporters, we know full well what a couple of bad drafts in a row can do to a club.

The conversation to be had was on proactively moving out assets that can be replaced to maintain a strong hand in both trade and draft, year after year.

We are far more versatile with a backline of:
B: Docherty jones Newman
HB: Williamson weitering saad

Marchbank, Williams, SPS, O’Brien
Kemp, JSOS, Stocker all have either been tried there or have the attributes to be tried there.

Regardless, I’m not continuing a conversation where both of our points are completely at odds with each other. I see him as tradeable and at the peak of his value on the market, you don’t.. move on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Plow man for Newman and I will come to the table. #plowlove.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Aphrodite
List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃
190 191 192 193 194
Replies
5K
Views
256K
branedotorg
branedotorg
Aphrodite
  • Locked
List Mgmt. 2023 List Management
395 396 397 398 399
Replies
10K
Views
444K
Aphrodite
Aphrodite
Aphrodite
News List Changes - Thank you LOB, Honey & Philp
2 3 4 5
Replies
119
Views
8K
haveago
haveago
The Old Dark Navy's
  • Sticky
2024 Carlton AFLW List
Replies
1
Views
960
The Old Dark Navy's
The Old Dark Navy's
Aphrodite
News AFLW List Changes/Delistings 2023
Replies
17
Views
1K
BlueGum
BlueGum
TENACIOUS
Review Carlton Club Manager 2022 (Game)
Replies
10
Views
1K
TENACIOUS
TENACIOUS
Aphrodite
News Welcome to Carlton Tom Lonergan - Development and Talent Manager
2 3 4
Replies
82
Views
7K
The Old Dark Navy's
The Old Dark Navy's

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top