Keeper Lg. 2020 List Management Thread

[deeman87]

Firstly RC why do you even care arent you leaving? You know you arent responsible for the other teams in the league and what direction they go in right... Captain America...

Secondly If Doggie wants to build his list through trade who the **** are you to tell him he cant. While I agree he might've paid a tiny bit too much not everyone wants to bottom out and not win/hardly win a game for 3 years like Zim and I. Now Azza & Orazio are also building through the draft along with Kiss which makes 5. So 5 teams bottoming out not trying to win, personally regardless of whether this trade gets done, if Doggie wants to build his list through trade, I think its actually a smart way to build in this landscape where half the league think anyone over 20 is finished. S lotta good deals could be had in such a landscape, TW hasnt made a pick in like 4 years and had built his whole lost through trading picks, Rockford makes like 1 pick a year and surprise they rule the league. So clearly trade is a viable way to build a list.

So with all that being said, I'm gonna talk to doggie and offer to void the deal and I will also offer to amend the deal to Stephens and his 2nd just to shut yall up and if you still think a mid first (i had Stephens rated 9th for this draft) and an early to mid 2nd is too much for a top 20 player in his prime then you can kindly go to hell.

 

[deeman87]

You know what totally ruins a dynasty league more than an uneven trade? A voided trade when neither coach wants the void. It says two coaches cant be trusted to make a trade. If UC voids this without Doggies consent this league is totally done, how can anyone trade under such circumstances. So what the only way to build a list is with unknown kids and by waiting 6 years to compete. Totally ridiculous. Coniglio is an A grade brownlow medal contender whose 26, hes worth a speculative kid and a decent pick even if the pick may have been a tiny bit too high which I have offered to amend. I'm willing to compromise and FU RC for asking UC to destroy the league with a full void. Something a league manager never wants to do and should never do, rather than asking for the trade to be amended.

 

[Zim^zuM]

This is why i asked American Doggie to make a statement. I think richcogs More so raised concerns because americanguy is new and we dont know him. No one batted an eyelid when you took cogs because we trusted you had a plan for him. So i dont think you should take less if he also has a masterplan and just didnt rate stephens. He didnt draft stepehens. For me personally i wouldnt do it. I saw how hard it was to get value out of shuey and its hard to get a side that needs cogs to pay his value.

 

[deeman87]

This is why i asked American Doggie to make a statement. I think richcogs More so raised concerns because americanguy is new and we dont know him. No one batted an eyelid when you took cogs because we trusted you had a plan for him. So i dont think you should take less if he also has a masterplan and just didnt rate stephens. He didnt draft stepehens. For me personally i wouldnt do it. I saw how hard it was to get value out of shuey and its hard to get a side that needs cogs to pay his value.

If Stephen's busts which is 5050, I absolutely get raped in this trade. I wouldn't have drafted Stephens and this deal is a result of me not finding a suitable deal for Cogs for 6 months, because as Zim says its impossible to get his worth from the top sides and the bottom ones are all rebuilding. That's an impossible position for me to be in. Anyways whatever, ive offered to Doggie to void the trade or change it if he wants so I'm not gonna speak more without talking to him.

It's no one else place to tell him what to do with his list, certainly not RC also known as world police. RichCogs spent the entire Summer trying to get Cogs, our negotiations span many pages. Now I trade him to someone else and he asks for it to be voided. RC offered very similar value to this trade he offered Robertson ( who both he and I value more than Stephens) and a 2nd and I wanted a 1st. So I finally get what I think hes worth and RC wants it voided, the most ridiculous **** I've seen and akin to a kid throwing a tantrum that he didnt get what he wanted.

 

[tenderwarrior]

I mean he wanted Cogs. It's kinda ridiculous considering none of you would offer what close to what Cogs is worth and someone does and you call for it to be void. I dont want a long drawn out conflict. If Doggie wants to void it im happy for it to be void. However I would prefer to work with him to change a piece to make it more even if y'all think it neccessary.

We don't have a trade void function, so it is up to whatever you both are happy to sort out, be that to change it up or leave as is (in my opinion)

 

[tenderwarrior]

Looks like our fixture just became fair for the first time ever

 

[Zim^zuM]

Hope i can finish last

 

[deeman87]

Hope i can finish last

Not happening dude you're a winner, you will trounce me rd1 ;D

 

[richcogs]

Can't be bothered in answering your babble deeman87 I think he is worth a 1 & 2nd for a contender team and that I won't deny. Just definitely not for LWP's old list, taken over by a brand new user that has only joined bigfooty recently. All I am advocating is there needs to be a policy in place regarding new teams and trading.

I’m going to have to side with RC on this one. That is a horrible trade for a team that needs a serious rebuild. Looking at that team Stephens and next years first would be the 2 most valuable assets American Doggie had at his disposal, to throw them both at a guy who turns 27 this year coming off an injury only prolongs the rebuild.

BANG EXACTLY

This is why i asked American Doggie to make a statement. I think richcogs More so raised concerns because americanguy is new and we dont know him. No one batted an eyelid when you took cogs because we trusted you had a plan for him. So i dont think you should take less if he also has a masterplan and just didnt rate stephens. He didnt draft stepehens. For me personally i wouldnt do it. I saw how hard it was to get value out of shuey and its hard to get a side that needs cogs to pay his value.

American Doggie there are plenty of articles on how to take over/adopt a Dynasty League. This is not a redraft league...

- https://www.google.com/search?q=tak...ome..69i57.10536j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
- https://www.fantraxhq.com/taking-over-a-dynasty-team/
- https://www.rotowire.com/baseball/advice/adopting-keeper-team.php
- https://www.rotoballer.com/taking-over-a-dynasty-orphan-team-successfully/658189

...these were the first three, but there are 100's more....

#6 – To Trade or Not To Trade
For all that is good and holy, do NOT make a trade within the first week of joining! If there is one bit of advice that should be heeded, it is this one. Established owners will want you to forget this in hopes they can take advantage of the naïve new manager.

 

[deeman87]

People can build however they like. If we're making new rules can we make a rule that coaches aren't allowed to tell other people what they should and shouldnt do? I thought American Doggie was taking over the new team not RIchcogs...

 

[Haychh]

deeman87 I don’t think anyone has too much of an issue with the value of the trade albeit slight overs. You’ve been very vocal at the fact you’ve been desperate to trade him for maximum value which you are well within your rights to but it just comes across as an ordinary look, AD has just joined the league, new to this format and it does look very opportunistic by yourself.

Like others mentioned I think we need to wait for American Doggie to explain the trade from his POV.

 

[deeman87]

deeman87 I don’t think anyone has too much of an issue with the value of the trade albeit slight overs. You’ve been very vocal at the fact you’ve been desperate to trade him for maximum value which you are well within your rights to but it just comes across as an ordinary look, AD has just joined the league, new to this format and it does look very opportunistic by yourself.

Like others mentioned I think we need to wait for American Doggie to explain the trade from his POV.

I've already offered AD variations on the trade all of which arent much better than packages other have offered or the option to void the deal, hes welcome to take any of those and if he wants to void that's fine. This isn't about that now, this is about RC constantly trying to run other people's teams. He did it with LWP now hes telling AD what to do. He's allowed to run his team however he wants. All I want is RC to shut the fk up and let every other coach in the league run their team how they want. I dont gaf about Cogs, I have other deals lined up that are just fine and basically the same value as the re-worked deals I offered AD.

 

[Drew23]

I agree with Zim^zuM and tenderwarrior . Honestly I don't think my rating of Coniglio was that different to AD. Maybe he slightly overpaid but imho not enough for an immediate veto to be called.

While personally I wouldn't have done the trade in his position, everyone has a different list build strategy. I've had 35 year olds running around for five years. Give him a chance to explain or continue on, we have let plenty of worse trades go through (cough Rockford lwp cough)

Haha I shouldn't bring up old wounds...

 

[Jordie_tackles]

I agree with Zim^zuM and tenderwarrior . Honestly I don't think my rating of Coniglio was that different to AD. Maybe he slightly overpaid but imho not enough for an immediate veto to be called.

While personally I wouldn't have done the trade in his position, everyone has a different list build strategy. I've had 35 year olds running around for five years. Give him a chance to explain or continue on, we have let plenty of worse trades go through (cough Rockford lwp cough)

Haha I shouldn't bring up old wounds...

This is pretty much it.

 

[Jordie_tackles]

I agree with Zim^zuM and tenderwarrior . Honestly I don't think my rating of Coniglio was that different to AD. Maybe he slightly overpaid but imho not enough for an immediate veto to be called.

While personally I wouldn't have done the trade in his position, everyone has a different list build strategy. I've had 35 year olds running around for five years. Give him a chance to explain or continue on, we have let plenty of worse trades go through (cough Rockford lwp cough)

Haha I shouldn't bring up old wounds...

You must be worried for your list health the corona virus does have a big effect on those of retirement age!

 

[American Doggie]

Hey guys - sorry for not responding right away this weekend. I didn't think making a move this early would cause such an uproar.

But, here's my reasoning for making the trade, which someone kind of already touched on; I'm not swapping a potential future gun for someone who only has 2 or 3 years left (injurys, always, aside). Cogs is a consensus Top 10 (if not Top 5) midfield option who is boosted greatly by the talent around him at GWS and how much it looks like they'll be scoring this year.

While Stephens may turn into a future stud, Cogs is one currently, and would be by far the best player on my list.

I'm currently talking with deeman87 about making the trade fairer, but as far as the player swap, it's one I'm 100% comfortable with.

I'm pleased for the opportunity to have joined the league and wanted to join this league to gain a deeper knowledge of the league (currently, I only really know the Dogs and want to expand that growth and see this league as a great opportunity to do so).

Let me know if you have any other questions - but as I see it, I get to bolster a solid list by adding a Top 10 player and deeman gets to speed up/bolster his rebuild by getting a potential future gun.

 

[Jordie_tackles]

Hey guys - sorry for not responding right away this weekend. I didn't think making a move this early would cause such an uproar.

But, here's my reasoning for making the trade, which someone kind of already touched on; I'm not swapping a potential future gun for someone who only has 2 or 3 years left (injurys, always, aside). Cogs is a consensus Top 10 (if not Top 5) midfield option who is boosted greatly by the talent around him at GWS and how much it looks like they'll be scoring this year.

While Stephens may turn into a future stud, Cogs is one currently, and would be by far the best player on my list.

I'm currently talking with deeman87 about making the trade fairer, but as far as the player swap, it's one I'm 100% comfortable with.

I'm pleased for the opportunity to have joined the league and wanted to join this league to gain a deeper knowledge of the league (currently, I only really know the Dogs and want to expand that growth and see this league as a great opportunity to do so).

Let me know if you have any other questions - but as I see it, I get to bolster a solid list by adding a Top 10 player and deeman gets to speed up/bolster his rebuild by getting a potential future gun.

Thanks for this AM, sounds like you will learn a lot, the first if it isn’t me being rude would be that I wouldn’t be describing your list as solid, it is probably one of the weakest list currently and rightly or wrongly most coaches were expecting a rebuild.

Good luck

 

[Zim^zuM]

Hey guys - sorry for not responding right away this weekend. I didn't think making a move this early would cause such an uproar.

But, here's my reasoning for making the trade, which someone kind of already touched on; I'm not swapping a potential future gun for someone who only has 2 or 3 years left (injurys, always, aside).

Let me know if you have any other questions - but as I see it, I get to bolster a solid list by adding a Top 10 player and deeman gets to speed up/bolster his rebuild by getting a potential future gun.

Thanks for this AM, sounds like you will learn a lot, the first if it isn’t me being rude would be that I wouldn’t be describing your list as solid, it is probably one of the weakest list currently and rightly or wrongly most coaches were expecting a rebuild.

Good luck

Yep. Which is why i suggested i the other thread hold off on deals, see the kind of deals we do as a league and read the articles richcogs posted. And remember you will realise hmmmm i dont need conligio, you can always trade him again and get some value out of him.

 

[richcogs]

Thanks for this AM, sounds like you will learn a lot, the first if it isn’t me being rude would be that I wouldn’t be describing your list as solid, it is probably one of the weakest list currently and rightly or wrongly most coaches were expecting a rebuild.

Good luck

American Doggie SOLID??? Play a few rounds before making the trade and see how solid it is.

The team that you have adopted finished second last last year, behind only Wombats that is going through a complete rebuild.



#6 – To Trade or Not To Trade
For all that is good and holy, do NOT make a trade within the first week of joining! If there is one bit of advice that should be heeded, it is this one. Established owners will want you to forget this in hopes they can take advantage of the naïve new manager.

 

[Jordie_tackles]

American Doggie SOLID??? Play a few rounds before making the trade and see how solid it is.

The team that you have adopted finished second last last year, behind only Wombats that is going through a complete rebuild.

View attachment 841029

#6 – To Trade or Not To Trade
For all that is good and holy, do NOT make a trade within the first week of joining! If there is one bit of advice that should be heeded, it is this one. Established owners will want you to forget this in hopes they can take advantage of the naïve new manager.

That’s a post finals ladder they won 3 more games than the lolern puppies in regular season!

 

[Daysy_12]

I think there are two main issues and I have strong opinion on one, less so on the other.

1. Should coaches be able to void other trades
My opinion is very strongly no. We had this debate years ago when we scrapped the veto system. There is no way any of us know how a trade pans out - who I am to say that Stephens and Pick 5 won't be better than Cogs for these teams? What time frame do I use? Who is pick 5 used on? Look back through some of the trades that got veto'd early on and some of them ended up being unfair in the opposite way to what people argued! If one coach wants to take a risk, it's their team. And it might pay off and it might not. But it's their choice to make.

It is also impossible to value players the same for different teams since all our situations are different. Maybe one coach needs a DEF or really needs MARKS and so they value one player higher than other coaches might. Or one team wants to improve the age profile of their team while another just needs draft picks. You can't restrict their ability to trade because you don't think it's fair.

Also - we've all got skin in the game! If I'm fighting for top 2 and another top team makes a play for a good player, of course I think it's unfair.

The only caveat I would have is that the commissioner should have to power to veto if there is suspected collusion but we should never be able to stop a trade because we think it's not fair. If any of us had that much foresight into player value we would be working for clubs and not playing fantasy on a forum. I'm pretty sure I had a trade veto'd years ago which was something like

2. Should new coaches be allowed to trade straight away
This one I have less of an opinion on. I can see the value in letting a new coach settle in, understand their list, understand the league dynamics, scoring etc. Perhaps we could agree to some kind of 'cooling off' period for new coaches just to protect against fire sales or coaches taking advantage of someone new to the league.

 

[Rockford]

Haha I shouldn't bring up old wounds...

You know what they say about opinions

Remind me of the list of players you landed for essentially just Dom Sheed?

 

[tenderwarrior]

You know what they say about opinions

Remind me of the list of players you landed for essentially just Dom Sheed?

You all have done well fleecing others.. I am the only honest one out of the lot of you

 

[Zim^zuM]

You know what they say about opinions

Remind me of the list of players you landed for essentially just Dom Sheed?

There was a 1st round pick in there too. Jpk NONE of you at the top would have given better than a 4th round for him

 

[Zim^zuM]

And i never got fleeced IMO. I gave everyone 12 months and shopped all those blokes around. Everyone bar Drew23 gave me rubbish offers of crap 2nd round and beyond picks and crap young players that arent even on AFL lists anymore. I at least got an extra 1st rounder and sheed who got me all these early picks this season for blokes that also are not on an afl list anymore or if they are barely relevant. Sometimes you have to read into whats being offered and take the best of the lesser deals which i did. The players i gave away were good at the time but 30 plus. I would have been just as happy to delist them. So really what was it? Drews 1st and sheed for shuey.

In a nut shell i was over dealing with you guys and was happy to undersell to still get some good tools into my squad amd get it over with