List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[thylacine60]

If we re-sign Eddie, Papley may retire.

 

[Matty411]

Wonder how it'd work with list mgmt if they say 35 list sizenext year. Having any kind of draft while honouring contracts will make it rough. Would mean clubs all cutting a quarter of their list.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Who's giving Eddie a contract in 2021 if we don't play another game & we also land Papley?

me three

Having a bit of time off may do him good at his age...I'd give him another year in a heartbeat if he wants to play on in 2021.

 

[smashbox gill]

With salary cap pressure we could squeeze Caldwell out of GWS. Exactly the type of midfielder we need

 

[Eiffel 65]

Wonder how it'd work with list mgmt if they say 35 list sizenext year. Having any kind of draft while honouring contracts will make it rough. Would mean clubs all cutting a quarter of their list.

Don't think cutting back to 35 will be as hard as what you think.

Those close to retirement E.g. Simmo may hang up the boots.

A cluster of under performing players will be cut, as well as a project player or two.

Most contracts will be renegotiated. This is a unique situation. Players, coaches, managers and clubs understand this and will make provisions.

 

[Eiffel 65]

With salary cap pressure we could squeeze Caldwell out of GWS. Exactly the type of midfielder we need

Yes, he's exactly the type of balanced midfielder we need to round off our group. Excellent dual sided player.

All of Hately, Caldwell, O'Halloran and Hill will be moving onto more lucrative contract extensions next season. There's no way GWS can keep them all.

Caldwell would have great synergy with our group as he's played a lot of junior footy with the likes of Walsh, Dow, O'brien, Kemp etc.

The fact that he'll be ready to step up next season strengthens the case for our list management team to make it happen.

 

[DangerousD]

Don't think cutting back to 35 will be as hard as what you think.

Those close to retirement E.g. Simmo may hang up the boots.

A cluster of under performing players will be cut, as well as a project player or two.

Most contracts will be renegotiated. This is a unique situation. Players, coaches, managers and clubs understand this and will make provisions.

Have a quick go as an exercise, a quick look has us with 46 players including rookies. If we were to cut to 36 for example, we are cutting 10 and thats pre draft and trading. As id expect a draft in some capacity and clubs/players still wanting to change, we are looking at around 12-14 being cut from the list.
It will be sad, in a football sense and tough.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Have a quick go as an exercise, a quick look has us with 46 players including rookies. If we were to cut to 36 for example, we are cutting 10 and thats pre draft and trading. As id expect a draft in some capacity and clubs/players still wanting to change, we are looking at around 12-14 being cut from the list.
It will be sad, in a football sense and tough.

Please note I feel sick to my stomach for even recommending these cuts to the list. I want to see all of them succeed, but unfortunately Covid-19 has other ideas.

I'm also assuming you can't get rid of a dozen of your cheapest players due to a significantly reduced salary cap, hence why some of the senior guys are in the list. Main reasons are retirement, injury prone, behind others in a similar position and the requirement to reduce the number of project players on the list.

How players perform when the season resumes will play a big factor, but this is how I see it at the moment:

1. Simpson (Retire)
2. Kennedy (Behind others)
3. Kreuzer (Retire - always injured - hopefully TDK can take 1st ruck next season or Pittonet gets an opportunity at the top level) Could potentially seek a trade?
4. Lang (Behind others)
5. Betts (Retire)
6. Macreadie (Behind others - always injured)
7. Polson (Behind others)
8. BSOS (Project - not enough list spots)
9. O'Dwyer (Project - not enough list spots)
10. Goddard (Behind others)
11. Cottrell (Project - not enough list spots)
12. Moore (Behind others)

Note: I've kept Owies, Honey and Phillips off this list because they've shown a lot of potential.

 

[BluStreak]

It does not matter who we add to the midfield, Crippa just needs to learn how to share.

 

[DangerousD]

Please note I feel sick to my stomach for even recommending these cuts to the list. I want to see all of them succeed, but unfortunately Covid-19 has other ideas.

I'm also assuming you can't get rid of a dozen of your cheapest players due to a significantly reduced salary cap, hence why some of the senior guys are in the list. Main reasons are retirement, injury prone, behind others in a similar position and the requirement to reduce the number of project players on the list.

How players perform when the season resumes will play a big factor, but this is how I see it at the moment:

1. Simpson (Retire)
2. Kennedy (Behind others)
3. Kreuzer (Retire - always injured - hopefully TDK can take 1st ruck next season or Pittonet gets an opportunity at the top level) Could potentially seek a trade?
4. Lang (Behind others)
5. Betts (Retire)
6. Macreadie (Behind others - always injured)
7. Polson (Behind others)
8. BSOS (Project - not enough list spots)
9. O'Dwyer (Project - not enough list spots)
10. Goddard (Behind others)
11. Cottrell (Project - not enough list spots)
12. Moore (Behind others)

Note: I've kept Owies, Honey and Phillips off this list because they've shown a lot of potential.

Ok, it’s a good start, now let’s delve a little deeper, the club have let’s say convinced a quality FA to join us and want to secure Papley, the club needs/wants to add 2 draftees. Where to then?

Im sure there would be a pathway for a lot of those guys to play in the reserves and be called upon if necessary. I get the feeling that a few clubs will be in a prime position to exploit the circumstances we are in, to get ahead of the competition, the same as the Hawas seemed to benefit at the time of the introduction of the expansion clubs.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Ok, it’s a good start, now let’s delve a little deeper, the club have let’s say convinced a quality FA to join us and want to secure Papley, the club needs/wants to add 2 draftees. Where to then?

Im sure there would be a pathway for a lot of those guys to play in the reserves and be called upon if necessary. I get the feeling that a few clubs will be in a prime position to exploit the circumstances we are in, to get ahead of the competition, the same as the Hawas seemed to benefit at the time of the introduction of the expansion clubs.

Ok, so lets say 35 players is the target number.

We've got 46 on the list. Cutting the 12 above would take us down to 34, so we'd need to cut another two in order to add three new players.

With 35 on a list, you'd probably try and swap like for like players for list balance.

Papley in would result in Gibbons or Owies on the chopping block (assuming salary cap isn't an issue for us).

Then you'd probably let go one of Phillips and Honey, which would create space for two top 30 picks in the 2020 draft. (Basically substituting a speculative prospect for a more highly rated prospect at draft time).

For what it's worth, there may be a reduction in list sizes, but probably not to the extent of 35 players on a list. Doesn't provide enough coverage for injuries. What I've suggested is an extreme case and probably unlikely to happen. AND I HOPE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN!!!!!

 

[Red Bull]

Will have a go at reducing the list to 35, but first, maybe a bit of trade discussion.
Ok, some names/targets that might appeal :
Papley, Caldwell, Hill.
What would we need to do to land these 3 ?
Who knows what draft picks we will have, there may be no season at all so let’s just call it as it was this year for the sake of the discussion ... 3 and 21 for starters.
Pick 3 on it’s own may land the combo of Caldwell and Hill from the Giants, if they needed a little extra, we could throw in Macreadie as some backup for the ageing Davis.
Now Papley.
Last year Sydney were reported to be interested in Marchbank.
I’d have him on the table for Papley but it wouldn’t be enough, perhaps pick 21 may have to be added ?
Would we be willing to trade picks 3, 21, Marchbank and Macreadie for Papley, Caldwell and Hill ??

 

[Jeremias]

It will be interesting to see what the league does when it comes to list sizes.

From my perspective, cutting down to 35 is tough; 30 is nigh on impossible.

I do not believe we'll go down as low as 30, if we do some clubs will at times struggle to field a team, particularly later in the season.

35, whilst tough, is doable, though some clubs will still struggle at times.

From our perspective, whilst most (if not all) contracts will be re-written, those currently without one will of course be in the gun. And we may see a premature retirement or two to help us retain as much of the young talent we've stockpiled as possible

I can get us down to 30, but we're letting some players go that we certainly won't want to. And that becomes even more apparent if we're talking about trading players in at the end of the year.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Will have a go at reducing the list to 35, but first, maybe a bit of trade discussion.
Ok, some names/targets that might appeal :
Papley, Caldwell, Hill.
What would we need to do to land these 3 ?
Who knows what draft picks we will have, there may be no season at all so let’s just call it as it was this year for the sake of the discussion ... 3 and 21 for starters.
Pick 3 on it’s own may land the combo of Caldwell and Hill from the Giants, if they needed a little extra, we could throw in Macreadie as some backup for the ageing Davis.
Now Papley.
Last year Sydney were reported to be interested in Marchbank.
I’d have him on the table for Papley but it wouldn’t be enough, perhaps pick 21 may have to be added ?
Would we be willing to trade picks 3, 21, Marchbank and Macreadie for Papley, Caldwell and Hill ??

Pick 21 would be sufficient for Hill or Caldwell (Hill may come cheaper). GWS won't have much bargaining power with the cap squeeze. Clubs watching this space.

If we acquired Hill, I'd argue the need for Papley wouldn't be as great.

The above would be too much for that trio in my eyes. Marchbank is arguably as valuable as Papley when fully fit. Just needs a good run at it. Also, pick 3 could land us Denver Grainger-Barrass as a long term replacement for Liam Jones. KPP's generally take a good 4 years to develop and Jones will be 30 before the start of next season. Facilitating a smooth transition for a key position may be a higher priority than acquiring a small forward.

The other FA of note is Zac Williams. Was discussed by Twomey and Cleary that clubs believe he's gettable due to the asking price. I'd personally go for him over Papley.

 

[Eiffel 65]

It will be interesting to see what the league does when it comes to list sizes.

From my perspective, cutting down to 35 is tough; 30 is nigh on impossible.

I do not believe we'll go down as low as 30, if we do some clubs will at times struggle to field a team, particularly later in the season.

35, whilst tough, is doable, though some clubs will still struggle at times.

From our perspective, whilst most (if not all) contracts will be re-written, those currently without one will of course be in the gun. And we may see a premature retirement or two to help us retain as much of the young talent we've stockpiled as possible

I can get us down to 30, but we're letting some players go that we certainly won't want to. And that becomes even more apparent if we're talking about trading players in at the end of the year.

100% agree with this. It will make rising up the ladder more difficult next year, but the reward will be much greater over the next decade.

 

[smashbox gill]

Don’t think GWS would be opposed to letting Caldwell go considering they picked up Greene and also have Hately waiting in the wings.
Only problem is sos is no longer here to make these deals happen

 

[Red Bull]

Pick 21 would be sufficient for Hill or Caldwell (Hill may come cheaper). GWS won't have much bargaining power with the cap squeeze. Clubs watching this space.

If we acquired Hill, I'd argue the need for Papley wouldn't be as great.

The above would be too much for that trio in my eyes. Marchbank is arguably as valuable as Papley when fully fit. Just needs a good run at it. Also, pick 3 could land us Denver Grainger-Barrass as a long term replacement for Liam Jones. KPP's generally take a good 4 years to develop and Jones will be 30 before the start of next season. Facilitating a smooth transition for a key position may be a higher priority than acquiring a small forward.

The other FA of note is Zac Williams. Was discussed by Twomey and Cleary that clubs believe he's gettable due to the asking price. I'd personally go for him over Papley.

Good discussion.
Agree 21 would land Hill but I doubt it would be enough for Caldwell.
Marchbank isn’t in the same league as Papley, not even close and unfortunately is never fit. If Sydney fancy him, let them gamble on him.
I’d be hunting the elite, aggressive, natural goal kicker in Papley and the explosively talented Hill to replace the retiring Betts, and delisted Lang, Owies and the unlucky Phillips taking into account a 35 man list.
I see B.Silvagni being groomed as the eventual Jones replacement. 2021 will be his fourth season and the transition will be ideal when Jones is ready to call time. The Silvagni’s are “slow burns”, but they’re good uns ...
Williams as a FA would be fantastic, might make Newnes and Newman a little anxious though once again factoring in a 35 man list.

 

[Red Bull]

Ok, time to have a go at a 35 man list.
If I go with my trades listed a few posts above, I’ve got it looking like this :

Currently 46 players listed
3 players traded in
Demands 14 players to be delisted

Retired : Simpson, Kreuzer, Betts

Traded : Marchbank, Macreadie

Delisted : Lang, Polson, Newnes, O’Dwyer, Phillips, Moore, Owies, Goddard, Cottrell

SPS Jones Plowman
Docherty Weitering Williamson
Setterfield Cripps Kemp
Papley Curnow Martin
McGovern McKay Hill

TDK Walsh Dow

Curnow Murphy Caldwell Fisher

Backline depth :
B.Silvagni Newman

Midfield depth :
Stocker O’Brien Kennedy Philp Gibbons Ramsay

Forward depth :
J.Silvagni Cuningham Honey

Ruck depth :
Pittonet Casboult

* Obviously the Silvagni brothers could play at either end of the ground and Kennedy and Casboult are also versatile.
Very difficult assignment and not much depth available with a list of only 35 players.

 

[thylacine60]

Ok, time to have a go at a 35 man list.
If I go with my trades listed a few posts above, I’ve got it looking like this :

Currently 46 players listed
3 players traded in
Demands 14 players to be delisted

Retired : Simpson, Kreuzer, Betts

Traded : Marchbank, Macreadie

Delisted : Lang, Polson, Newnes, O’Dwyer, Phillips, Moore, Owies, Goddard, Cottrell

SPS Jones Plowman
Docherty Weitering Williamson
Setterfield Cripps Kemp
Papley Curnow Martin
McGovern McKay Hill

TDK Walsh Dow

Curnow Murphy Caldwell Fisher

Backline depth :
B.Silvagni Newman

Midfield depth :
Stocker O’Brien Kennedy Philp Gibbons Ramsay

Forward depth :
J.Silvagni Cuningham Honey

Ruck depth :
Pittonet Casboult

* Obviously the Silvagni brothers could play at either end of the ground and Kennedy and Casboult are also versatile.
Very difficult assignment and not much depth available with a list of only 35 players.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

With salary cap pressure we could squeeze Caldwell out of GWS. Exactly the type of midfielder we need

Don't forget Hately. Both would be welcome additions

 

[smashbox gill]

Don't forget Hately. Both would be welcome additions

I only mentioned Caldwell as he's Victorian and played junior footy with a lot of our recent draftees - dow, obrien, kemp, walsh

Hately is from SA and therefore may be harder to get. Also seems to be ahead of Caldwell in the pecking order.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I only mentioned Caldwell as he's Victorian and played junior footy with a lot of our recent draftees - dow, obrien, kemp, walsh

Hately is from SA and therefore may be harder to get. Also seems to be ahead of Caldwell in the pecking order.

Completely understand!
Feel a few decent players wont be fitted in if the list sizes change and those 2 are gettable. If we came hard for Hately, i think he would be very interested. The kids just want to play and i doubt location has anything to do with it with maybe 180 players being shown the door (approx 10 from each club if list sizes are reduced)

 

[BlueTang]

I hope they only cut it to 40, 35 seems to tight, often clubs have 10 injured players, if that becomes 9 or 8 due to a smaller list it’s still only 26 or 27 fighting for a spot in the 22. Too many will be gifted games, teams won’t be able to have depth in some areas..
Can’t the last 6 on the list be on apprenticeship type wages?

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Prefer to delete GWS, Suns, kangaroos and of course * from the competition. Lower list sizes to 40. Less players, less teams, better quality on each list. If only...

 

[thylacine60]

keep roos for the laughs........