List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Stamos]

Sigh

Stamos

1 What makes you think Swans will release Papley?

2 What makes you think, that the Swans will only deal with us, rather than all Melbourne clubs if Papley's main priority is Melbourne

The same, in part could be related to any uncontracted player

Yeah?

I'm not saying we'll be getting Papley. If I were the Swans, it's highly unlikely that I'd let him go.

However, it's obvious why Carlton supporters are discussing him as a possibility. Unlike Ryan.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on Fisher?

This isn’t a trade question, this is a why is he not in the team question?

Is he out of favour? Or just being made to earn his spot?

We rate Fish internally higher than any other club would be prepared to pay, he is the perfect foot soldier player for us. I think he has had some niggles which is why he hasnt played.

 

[Stamos]

So any Melbourne club would suffice, no?

Swans didn't trade him last year, yeah?

Well, he did request a trade to us.

 

[Arr0w]

We are both making a lot of assumptions, speculating on the players these guys become and the possible cost.
Im aware of Papleys situation, standing and possible cost, ost of it isn’t really relevant, except the cost and what we could do with the assets instead.

I rate Witherden, it was confirmed last year by Fagan that he had been struggling with homesickness, I think he will be gettable, I’m not 100% sure if he makes us better or not, but my point was, he can easily be picked up, with Papley, by just using the two first rounders.

Im a bit stumped how Ryan has more strings to his bow than Papley, he gets less of the ball, takes less marks, lays less tackles and kicks less goals. Now I’m not sure what you’re looking for in a forward but he’s not doing anything better than Papley, he would be cheaper and that’s about it. He also has a few kids if I recall, so very unlikely to leave West Coast.

No idea on Ballenden, it’s largely not relevant to my point. That we can get Papley and use the 2nd rounder coming back on another player if need, then it’s not two first rounders on one player, it’s two first rounders on two players.

Ryan spends more time through the middle, a premiership player, where a forward line wasn't reliant on one player

 

[Arr0w]

Well, he did request a trade to us.

Yeah, well let's put his name on the locker now

 

[DangerousD]

Forget the names, they are suggestions only. Papley would be a great get, but IMHO, using 2 first rounders in total value would be overs, something decent needs to come back

Carlton 2021 first rounder out, in Sydney 2021 second rounder.

Some people will get caught up in, oh my gosh, two first rounders, but what are the actual picks there? I’m more than confident that we will play finals next year and optimistic that we win one, let’s say we have pick 14, what do you think Sydney will have, maybe pick 22. Is trading down 8 spots a big deal?

 

[Arr0w]

Arrow, you've plucked a WA player, born and bred, playing regular senior footy for a WA-based flag contender, and suggested that we should target him instead of a player who, 8 months ago, requested a trade to our club from his current club who are facing the prospect of multiple years at the bottom of the ladder.

I understand wanting a more x-factor small forward, but just because that's your preference it doesn't mean we can just cherry pick one that suits and have him.

Again, another that's getting to caught up with the names

 

[Stamos]

Yeah, well let's put his name on the locker now

Huh?

 

[Stamos]

Again, another that's getting to caught up with the names

You're the only one using the name, Ryan.
If you don't want to use names, just go with types. But if you're going to pluck a name, expect that player to be discussed. And people will be dismissive if they're not realistic.

 

[Arr0w]

Carlton 2021 first rounder out, in Sydney 2021 second rounder.

Some people will get caught up in, oh my gosh, two first rounders, but what are the actual picks there? I’m more than confident that we will play finals next year and optimistic that we win one, let’s say we have pick 14, what do you think Sydney will have, maybe pick 22. Is trading down 8 spots a big deal?

DD, do you really think I don't understand the concept?

My original post stated, " 2 first round picks a total value"

 

[Blue__Balls]

Again, another that's getting to caught up with the names

Then don't specify a name. Or include half a dozen names to more clearly illustrate your point.

 

[Arr0w]

You're the only one using the name, Ryan.
If you don't want to use names, just go with types. But if you're going to pluck a name, expect that player to be discussed. And people will be dismissive if they're not realistic.

Hahaha

They were examples, forgot that you would get so caught up in a name

If I names type/s you would then ask who, like the other day

 

[Arr0w]

Then don't specify a name. Or include half a dozen names to more clearly illustrate your point.

You're not that stupid BB

I am confident you too could rattle off a combination of players where the currency suggested, could be better spent

 

[FairKouta]

Lol what did i just walk into a trade charlie for a papley and Macrea that is a straight no and lels

 

[Stamos]

Hahaha

They were examples, forgot that you would get so caught up in a name

If I names type/s you would then ask who, like the other day

That's kind of the point of this thread though

 

[Own The Future]

Carlton defender signs new three-year deal

Some contract news out of Carlton.

www.sen.com.au

Plowman is certainly a divisive player on this forum, but I have to say I am happy to read that he has re-signed for 3 years.
I used to cringe when he got the ball, and felt that he was outclassed by virtually every opponent. The post-Covid shutdown period is a small sample size, but I feel he has improved this season and is now a reliable and versatile defender. His play at the death vs NM was a real highlight.

 

[Blue__Balls]

You're not that stupid BB

I am confident you too could rattle off a combination of players where the currency suggested, could be better spent

Maybe I am, I dunno.

I just walked into a thread and saw that you were advocating for trading in Ryan instead of Papley, and questioned it. I think if we're talking types. it helps to put names to the discussion - but its also important to have an understanding of just who is in that mold who is a) worth targeting, and b) gettable.

For the sake of the discussion, I've run through all the forward-listed players in Supercoach (easiest way I could think to scour the whole comp for small forwards). If we're talking quick, creative smalls (maybe the odd small-playing medium) with clean hands, goal sense, and a big leap:

Walters
Wingard
Greene
Ryan
Rohan
Elliot
Fritsch
Hayward
Rioli (D)
Pickett
Rankine
Hill
Rioli (W)
Henry

Past that, we're hitting later draftees who haven't played games.

Walters, Greene, Rankine, Wingard, Fritsch - any of those would be absolutely worth paying a fair price for, but I don't know that any are gettable.
Ryan, Hayward, Rioli (W) - probably all have the talent, but two are WA-based in WA clubs while the other is a talented kid who Sydney will see as the future.
Pickett, Henry - talented, but recent draftees and unlikely to be on the market.
Rohan, Elliot - too old given we'd be looking for Bett's long-term successor.

That "type" is rare. Rarer again to find one who has the staying power to be more than a thrice-a-year highlight special.

 

[Arr0w]

That's kind of the point of this thread though

But we have to do it a certain way?

Must of missed the memo

 

[CJMB]

I think you can not look at it like that, you think of what he would do to the Carlton midfield and our team as a whole.. An established gun midfielder who would immediately take pressure of Cripps. You could have said the same thing about Lachie Neale at Freo, but its the bears laughing all the way to the top 4.. We have a glaring weakness in our support to Cripps and IMO we need to target an established gun mid who can come in and make an immediate impact.. The club have tried in the past with Shiel & Coniglio so they know it.. It doesnt have to be Macrae but i think he would fit perfectly.

Well... they also brought in a highly rated, fast rising small forward beforehand in Cameron. Also a norm smith medalist, Hodge.

Then along with Neale they added an intercepting defender in Marcus Adams, a small/med forward in Lincoln McCarthy and a little freebie from down the highway in Jarryd Lyons.

This year they got another small forward/mid type in Callum Ah Chee, a veteran hbf in Birchall and a big bodied midfielder in Ellis-Yolman.

So that's 3 (predominantly) small forwards, 3 defenders and 3 mids.


What we get up is primarily dependent on what's available. I also doubt we'll focus purely on one area, as the likelihood of there being surplus available talent in one position for us to snap up is fairly slim. Ideally we'd add a running defender, a small forward and an inside/outside goalkicking mid, all with pace and elite foot skills. It's going to be pretty hard to address all three with established players in one trade/fa period even if you had a GCS 2019 draft hand.

 

[Arr0w]

Maybe I am, I dunno.

I just walked into a thread and saw that you were advocating for trading in Ryan instead of Papley, and questioned it. I think if we're talking types. it helps to put names to the discussion - but its also important to have an understanding of just who is in that mold who is a) worth targeting, and b) gettable.

For the sake of the discussion, I've run through all the forward-listed players in Supercoach (easiest way I could think to scour the whole comp for small forwards). If we're talking quick, creative smalls (maybe the odd small-playing medium) with clean hands, goal sense, and a big leap:

Walters
Wingard
Greene
Ryan
Rohan
Elliot
Fritsch
Hayward
Rioli (D)
Pickett
Rankine
Hill
Rioli (W)
Henry

Past that, we're hitting later draftees who haven't played games.

Walters, Greene, Rankine, Wingard, Fritsch - any of those would be absolutely worth paying a fair price for, but I don't know that any are gettable.
Ryan, Hayward, Rioli (W) - probably all have the talent, but two are WA-based in WA clubs while the other is a talented kid who Sydney will see as the future.
Pickett, Henry - talented, but recent draftees and unlikely to be on the market.
Rohan, Elliot - too old given we'd be looking for Bett's long-term successor.

That "type" is rare. Rarer again to find one who has the staying power to be more than a thrice-a-year highlight special.

I don't buy into where players are from

O'meara, Wingard, Rockliff, etc all playing away from home

Others happy to remain interstate

I wasn't just looking at small forwards, I was looking at types/needs with my examples

Speed/above average kicking skills

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Well... they also brought in a highly rated, fast rising small forward beforehand in Cameron. Also a norm smith medalist, Hodge.

Then along with Neale they added an intercepting defender in Marcus Adams, a small/med forward in Lincoln McCarthy and a little freebie from down the highway in Jarryd Lyons.

This year they got another small forward/mid type in Callum Ah Chee, a veteran hbf in Birchall and a big bodied midfielder in Ellis-Yolman.

So that's 3 (predominantly) small forwards, 3 defenders and 3 mids.


What we get up is primarily dependent on what's available. I also doubt we'll focus purely on one area, as the likelihood of there being surplus available talent in one position for us to snap up is fairly slim. Ideally we'd add a running defender, a small forward and an inside/outside goalkicking mid, all with pace and elite foot skills. It's going to be pretty hard to address all three with established players in one trade/fa period even if you had a GCS 2019 draft hand.

Your discounting the work we have already done over the past 5 years.. But right now our biggest holes are a gun mid and a small fwd (Betts is covering this but had made 1 more year)

 

[Blue__Balls]

I don't buy into where players are from

O'meara, Wingard, Rockliff, etc all playing away from home

Others happy to remain interstate

I wasn't just looking at small forwards, I was looking at types/needs with my examples

Speed/above average kicking skills

Well now I'm more confused.

Why are we deviating from Papley in this discussion? He's quick enough and has above average kicking skills. You highlighted that Ryan has "more tricks" - I assumed you were talking about aerial ability, but perhaps there's something else you meant?

Papley, for me, is the obvious target. He fits a need (small forward, mid rotation), is the right age for an extended tilt at the flag, and has requested a trade to us only 8 months ago. If he's still keen, I don't see why we wouldn't be. Subject to Sydney's attitude...

There's nothing stopping us also targeting other players with elite kicking skills (a must, I think) and speed (a nice to have, but secondary). They can run the gamut from Zac Williams (pace and disposal, high salary price and likely in demand, no trade required) to Alex Witherden (quality disposal, modest salary and trade cost) to Jack Petrucelle (quick, inexperienced, not sure on disposal, low salary and trade cost).

 

[HARKER]

Of course we'd still be after Papley...SOS or no SOS.

I just can't see The Swans willing to give him up, as he's effectively their marquee player right now, with Franklin all but finished.
On the other hand though, a rebuild may be somewhat of.....if not enticing.....maybe a required alternative.

I think a lot will come down to which path The Swans are going to go down, before any prospect of Papley to Carlton....unless of course the club/s and player had a secret agreement for 2020.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

I feel like the AFLPA will play a part behind the scenes if Papley requests a trade to Carlton for the second time.

The AFL have a habit of manipulating outcomes behind closed doors and I don't think the player's association will tolerate a player's trade request being denied again, contracted or otherwise.

Obviously the Swans have all the control in this situation but I just think a deal will be done the second time around.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Two firsts for Papley and plenty (Pick 20ish, maybe a fringe player).
Gaff, Williams or Crouch as a free agent.
Take the Pick 20 from Sydney and go for someone like Toby McLean.

I’d be stoked with this outcome, and it’s not at all unrealistic.

A pick around 10 in a shocker of a draft and a pick around 18 (hopefully, we’ll say 12-14), with a second coming back, would be outstanding for Papley.

Williams replaces Simpson at half back or provides some extra class through the middle. Offer him overs if required, we have the space. CHB: Doc - Weits - Williams

McLean an instant best 22 mid coming into his prime at age 24.

My only other suggestion would be to package up our seconds on draft night for a late first to grab a slider, or maybe a future first if we’re feeling lucky. Come 2021 I think we’ll have no problem acquiring currency, any number of Dow, LOB, Stocker, Fish and Kennedy could all find themselves on the outer.