List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[HARKER]

Dow, Philip, SPS, Walsh, LoB and Fisher are currently not getting midfield minutes. Adding Ben Cunnington does not help that situation.

Adding Cunnington to a midfield comprising Cripps, Curnow, Setterfield, Kennedy and Murphy would actually be insane.
Unless we plan on retiring Murphy and Curnow which we won't.

Not saying he isn't a good player but he is the absolute opposite of what we need.

Murphy has been pushed out of the midfield and unlikely to now register any serious call up.
ECurnow will be 31 next year and even given his fitness base, when the slowing down comes about, it may come about pretty quick taking into account the likelihood of other mids demanding midfield duties ahead of him.

The year isn't done and we have a pre-season ahead of us for players to start putting their hand up but for now Cripps and Setterfield are our preferred starting mids without the aforementioned. All we want now is for Dow to show good signs in the next few weeks to give us optimism of what our starting midfield may look like next year. Throw in Walsh and Fisher for the next cabs off the rank and we may start to form quite a dynamic midfield.

We'll then just have to see how Kemp, Stocker and Philp come along and if Kennedy does have a genuine life at us. Throw SPS into that deal.
We may have our midfield covered, but I understand if the CFC are looking at some senior experience just to sure things up, as we have too many of these young guys that we can't bank on just yet.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I don't mind trialing players in other positions, but when it becomes clear it's not going to work a call needs to be made. SPS is not a defender, so if we don't see him as part of our midfield then trade him for an actual defender.

Whether that player has a lower ceiling/less skillful on paper, or SPS goes on to be a great mid is beside the point if it helps improves our balance

I disagree about SPS not being able to be a very good defender but totally agree On the premise. If he is only going to be an average defender and we don’t think he is good enough to play midfield then there are better options. That can be said for all players in a similar position who have value.

 

[HARKER]

I don't mind trialing players in other positions, but when it becomes clear it's not going to work a call needs to be made. SPS is not a defender, so if we don't see him as part of our midfield then trade him for an actual defender.

Whether that player has a lower ceiling/less skillful on paper, or SPS goes on to be a great mid is beside the point if it helps improves our balance

We have to trial players in other positions, other than what they were recruited for.
We have no choice, as all our first rounders simply cannot fit into the one team playing through the midfield.

My contention has always been that it can boil down to wasted resources.
e.g. Is SPS a #5 selected HBF'er? Could Dow be a #3 selected forward?
Lots to play out for the puzzle pieces to fall, but it's clear to me that all these first round mids will not be able to co-exist.

 

[Bluebag13]

Lachie Hunter gettable according to Caro?...

Contracted until the end of 2024 but relationship with the club may have 'frayed', could be looking for a fresh start after a tumultuous year.

Would we bite? What's his value?

Now this would be an impact player. fingers crossed

 

[HARKER]

It will be intriguing as to what will come about for our younger 'development' players, come years end.

Cottrell, Honey, Phillips, JSilvagni, O'Dwyer and Owies.

I wonder whether we can possibly keep them all.

 

[HARKER]

Now this would be an impact player. fingers crossed

4 vehicle impact?

 

[Bluebag13]

4 vehicle impact?

Does go in hard

 

[bigm386]

Murphy has been pushed out of the midfield and unlikely to now register any serious call up.
ECurnow will be 31 next year and even given his fitness base, when the slowing down comes about, it may come about pretty quick taking into account the likelihood of other mids demanding midfield duties ahead of him.

The year isn't done and we have a pre-season ahead of us for players to start putting their hand up but for now Cripps and Setterfield are our preferred starting mids without the aforementioned. All we want now is for Dow to show good signs in the next few weeks to give us optimism of what our starting midfield may look like next year. Throw in Walsh and Fisher for the next cabs off the rank and we may start to form quite a dynamic midfield.

We'll then just have to see how Kemp, Stocker and Philp come along and if Kennedy does have a genuine life at us. Throw SPS into that deal.
We may have our midfield covered, but I understand if the CFC are looking at some senior experience just to sure things up, as we have too many of these young guys that we can't bank on just yet.

Would much rather target Jack Graham. Is a bit of a bull, has decent pace and knows what it takes to win a flag. Is also only 22 but you wouldn't know it from looking at him.

 

[Cripptonite]

Cunnington (when fit) is an absolute gun. Dragged North across the line in round one against the saints and is a far better midfielder than anyone on our list bar Cripps. It’s no coincidence that North fell off a cliff after his injury this year. In saying that I don’t think North would let him go for anything less than a top 10 pick and at 28 years of age, with our midfield profile, it probably would be too big a price to pay.

Wouldn’t be completely against it though considering we are discussing Wines/Crouch etc. Cunnington is just an older and better version. He and Cripps would be a formidable duo.

 

[bigm386]

It will be intriguing as to what will come about for our younger 'development' players, come years end.

Cottrell, Honey, Phillips, JSilvagni, O'Dwyer and Owies.

I wonder whether we can possibly keep them all.

I am really curious about this especially if list cuts are required.

Let's just say the senior list drops by 5, would mean we need to shed about 8 players from our senior list to draft. Who knows what it means for rookie including cat B lists. Again as discussed yesterday this is hopefully not going to happen but it could be sad times.

 

[Stamos]

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Hoping this isn't paywalled, wasn't for me.

Surely TDK stays in article saying will make way for McKay.

Yeah, it's paywalled

 

[DangerousD]

It will be intriguing as to what will come about for our younger 'development' players, come years end.

Cottrell, Honey, Phillips, JSilvagni, O'Dwyer and Owies.

I wonder whether we can possibly keep them all.

Has the Red Fin shown enough at VFL to earn a new deal? Owies is always in the goals, I haven’t seen him, but there seems to be a bit to work with, SOS is a tall and most agree that they take longer to develop, Honey has big wraps and has impressed and Cottrell just got a debut. Either his debut was an audition or we rate him internally.

Out of the list Finbar seems likely to depart, where’s Phillips at?

 

[BlueJet]

Cunnington (when fit) is an absolute gun. Dragged North across the line in round one against the saints and is a far better midfielder than anyone on our list bar Cripps. It’s no coincidence that North fell off a cliff after his injury this year. In saying that I don’t think North would let him go for anything less than a top 10 pick and at 28 years of age, with our midfield profile, it probably would be too big a price to pay.

Wouldn’t be completely against it though considering we are discussing Wines/Crouch etc. Cunnington is just an older and better version. He and Cripps would be a formidable duo.

I can see justification in bringing Cunnington across, the concern i have is with the outlay required given his age.
Jack Viney would represent a younger alternative that would also provide the aggression that we're presently lacking in our midfield mix & I admit, it'd be funny to watch him sort out Cripps' tagger.

 

[HARKER]

I am really curious about this especially if list cuts are required.

Let's just say the senior list drops by 5, would mean we need to shed about 8 players from our senior list to draft. Who knows what it means for rookie including cat B lists. Again as discussed yesterday this is hopefully not going to happen but it could be sad times.

That's why I put those guys up in particular, as most are in that 'project player' sphere.
BSilvagni was always going to take time as was O'Dwyer and there's little to suggest we should be moving on the others. Cpuld be tough.

Has the Red Fin shown enough at VFL to earn a new deal? Owies is always in the goals, I haven’t seen him, but there seems to be a bit to work with, SOS is a tall and most agree that they take longer to develop, Honey has big wraps and has impressed and Cottrell just got a debut. Either his debut was an audition or we rate him internally.

Out of the list Finbar seems likely to depart, where’s Phillips at?

Finbar hasn't shown anywhere near enough and likely the first one cut from that group, given a choice between Phillips and himself.

For me at least, there was no point taking Phillips if we ween't prepared to invest time into him.
He's one of the more natural goal-kickers at our club. I recall one session where his coach was throwing balls to him from about 30 out and Phillips had to kick for goal across his body....and from all angles. I don't recall seeing him miss one. It was genuinely effortless for him. How does that show up in games, we don't know but this guy can kick goals.

 

[BluStreak]

Question to our more astute observers,
Darcy Lang as an experienced body operating on a wing? (pushing Murphy to the HFF)
Does he have the speed and endurance to do this?
Would this get him more involved in play as the games I have seen (TV) he does not seem very involved in play.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I disagree about SPS not being able to be a very good defender but totally agree On the premise. If he is only going to be an average defender and we don’t think he is good enough to play midfield then there are better options. That can be said for all players in a similar position who have value.

SPS has something no other play at Carlton has, and that is elite foot skills.. He is developing nicely down back, i am not sure where all the hatred comes from but of all our problems SPS is right down the bottom IMO

 

[bigm386]

That's why I put those guys up in particular, as most are in that 'project player' sphere.
BSilvagni was always going to take time as was O'Dwyer and there's little to suggest we should be moving on the others. Cpuld be tough.



Finbar hasn't shown anywhere near enough and likely the first one cut from that group, given a choice between Phillips and himself.

For me at least, there was no point taking Phillips if we ween't prepared to invest time into him.
He's one of the more natural goal-kickers at our club. I recall one session where his coach was throwing balls to him from about 30 out and Phillips had to kick for goal across his body....and from all angles. I don't recall seeing him miss one. It was genuinely effortless for him. How does that show up in games, we don't know but this guy can kick goals.

Agree with Finbar, the interesting thing is he is also on the senior list whereas Cotters is a rookie.

It does make me wonder if these list cuts are a in fact a reality would a player like Kemp have been drafted in 2019, knowing he wouldn't play till 2021 in reality. It really does potentially change the landscape of drafting and recruiting. Players that can play multiple positions will be a premium.

 

[CJMB]

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Hoping this isn't paywalled, wasn't for me.

Surely TDK stays in article saying will make way for McKay.

Paywalled for me.

Without reading it... I guess it makes sense from a 'improve the 22' perspective, McKay is a more damaging forward than TDK - even though we liked what we saw from him and I'm sure most would like to see him get another go - and then Dow comes in for Martin.

Then of course there's the Pitto finger injury seemingly not being mentioned. It's either all good and not worthy of mention, or we're keeping our cards close to our chest so Freo don't know if Darcy is rucking against Pitto/Levi, TDK/Levi, Pitto/TDK/Levi or Pitto/TDK.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Murphy has been pushed out of the midfield and unlikely to now register any serious call up.
ECurnow will be 31 next year and even given his fitness base, when the slowing down comes about, it may come about pretty quick taking into account the likelihood of other mids demanding midfield duties ahead of him.

The year isn't done and we have a pre-season ahead of us for players to start putting their hand up but for now Cripps and Setterfield are our preferred starting mids without the aforementioned. All we want now is for Dow to show good signs in the next few weeks to give us optimism of what our starting midfield may look like next year. Throw in Walsh and Fisher for the next cabs off the rank and we may start to form quite a dynamic midfield.

We'll then just have to see how Kemp, Stocker and Philp come along and if Kennedy does have a genuine life at us. Throw SPS into that deal.
We may have our midfield covered, but I understand if the CFC are looking at some senior experience just to sure things up, as we have too many of these young guys that we can't bank on just yet.

Ed has given us wonderful service and took over from Carrazzo as our lock down tagger, but i have always felt that we would never contend whilst he is good enough to be in our starting midfield, however our lack of midfield depth has always meant there was a spot for him..

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I feel sorry for the fringe developing players, this year is a complete waste. These scratch matches dont give the guys a real chance of showing what they have got. With the lack of visability over the Vic kids playing u18s i would much rather give our young kids an extra year to show something that to take a risk on another kid in the draft.

 

[bigblueboy]

Ed has given us wonderful service and took over from Carrazzo as our lock down tagger, but i have always felt that we would never contend whilst he is good enough to be in our starting midfield, however our lack of midfield depth has always meant there was a spot for him..

Yes.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Yes please to Lachie Hunter, one of the best genuine wingers in the league and that is a position of need for us as we are all well aware.

Imagine 2021 with LOB on one wing and Hunter on the other, with Walsh able to resume his role in the guts. Wowee!

 

[Gethelred]

Cunnington (when fit) is an absolute gun. Dragged North across the line in round one against the saints and is a far better midfielder than anyone on our list bar Cripps. It’s no coincidence that North fell off a cliff after his injury this year. In saying that I don’t think North would let him go for anything less than a top 10 pick and at 28 years of age, with our midfield profile, it probably would be too big a price to pay.

Wouldn’t be completely against it though considering we are discussing Wines/Crouch etc. Cunnington is just an older and better version. He and Cripps would be a formidable duo.

Is a gun, but is also much, much slower than Wines is. Wines is not fast, either.

Cunnington is also 29, compared to Wines at almost 26.

 

[alfo]

On a few of the topics being discussed, my take...

Cunnington: Big yes, was in AA form early this year. Would add a Hodge, Birchall like impact to our team (minus premiership experience). Would probably mean we move one of our older mids out.

Hunter: Another big yes, great by foot and can find the goals. Brings finals/flag experience.

Who makes way? Finbar hasn't done enough, he'll be first to go. After that, who knows. No secret we might have some retirements. Unclear who though yet.
Polson - gone, Lang - gone, Ramsay - probably gone, Goddard - gone, Moore - gone. That's 6 already plus whoever retires.

I'll say this again, SPS IS NOT A MIDFIELDER! Look at his game against North last year, he gets slaughtered in there. No defensive pressure and too small, big body mids kill him.

I'm expecting some movement this year, players maybe we don't want to be pushed out or traded, will. First time in years where other teams might start asking questions about more of our players. If it gets us a better result in the long run, good riddance.

 

[Broadside]

I'll say this again, SPS IS NOT A MIDFIELDER! Look at his game against North last year, he gets slaughtered in there. No defensive pressure and too small, big body mids kill him.

so does he have a role at Carlton, and if so what is it?