List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[ferrisb]

Brad Crouch and Oliver Wines AFL Stats Comparison

Brad Crouch and Oliver Wines AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

This is a Brad Crouch vs Ollie Wines comparison. Both of them are inside midfielders, with Wines being about a year younger. What interests me about this is the difference between how the two players are regarded; Wines is thought as having regressed or having failed to come on to the extent that his early days were terrific where Crouch is thought of as a gun.

I rate both, insofar as they'd completely replace one of our older players in the middle (my money'd be on Ed rather than Murph, with JSOS taking the run-with roles if one needs to be applied) and immediately provide that bigger support and blocks for Cripps. Both could be very, very interesting if it could be done...

The article lists Crouch as an unrestricted free agent, which I find very hard to believe. I'm pretty certain he's restricted.

But even if he's restricted, if/when the Crows finish low on the ladder, they won't match. They'll take the sexy free compo pick.

In that case, I'd rather get Crouch for free than Ollie for a 1st rounder and 2nd rounder (ballpark).

 

[ferrisb]

On the other hand.....if we draft Wines, I will be able to paste his picture next to one of Quagmire in the AFL Lookalike thread.

Oooooh, it's a tough one.

 

[Gethelred]

The article lists Crouch as an unrestricted free agent, which I find very hard to believe. I'm pretty certain he's restricted.

But even if he's restricted, if/when the Crows finish low on the ladder, they won't match. They'll take the sexy free compo pick.

In that case, I'd rather get Crouch for free than Ollie for a 1st rounder and 2nd rounder (ballpark).

Don't think of it quite that way. Think instead of how getting both in means that we no longer need any midfielders in the short to medium term. That is a core in the appropriate age group to allow for an assault on the top of the ladder while Cripps and Doc are below 30.

Midfield then becomes: Cripps, Crouch, Wines, SPS, Murphy, Walsh, Fisher, Setterfield, Dow, Phelp, O'Brien, Kemp, Curnow, JSOS, Martin. There's an incredible amount of ball-winning in there, pace, power and silk. You could build a game around simply depriving the opposition from the ball in close with the attitude being to get it into the hands of SPS, O'Brien, Walsh, Gibbons, Murphy, Martin, Setterfield to kick forward.

If you're a bit slow, you've got the talls and the chops behind the ball to ensure that the setup is good there. That's a midfield capable of domination tomorrow, not in three years.

 

[Bluebag13]

The article lists Crouch as an unrestricted free agent, which I find very hard to believe. I'm pretty certain he's restricted.

But even if he's restricted, if/when the Crows finish low on the ladder, they won't match. They'll take the sexy free compo pick.

In that case, I'd rather get Crouch for free than Ollie for a 1st rounder and 2nd rounder (ballpark).

as long as you can keep crouch fit and healthy. You take him especially considering the draft capital you need to give up to get wines.

 

[DangerousD]

Id take merrett no doubt.

If we could sonehow add merrett, Papley and either Zac Williams or brad Crouch, id be beyond stoked.

But what we really need is our kids to grow into these types

2 parts of that, somehow are free agents, Brad being un-restricted and I doubt GWS would match any offer for Zac.

As long as we have cap space, we should be right in the race for those two.

 

[DangerousD]

Brad Crouch and Oliver Wines AFL Stats Comparison

Brad Crouch and Oliver Wines AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

This is a Brad Crouch vs Ollie Wines comparison. Both of them are inside midfielders, with Wines being about a year younger. What interests me about this is the difference between how the two players are regarded; Wines is thought as having regressed or having failed to come on to the extent that his early days were terrific where Crouch is thought of as a gun.

I rate both, insofar as they'd completely replace one of our older players in the middle (my money'd be on Ed rather than Murph, with JSOS taking the run-with roles if one needs to be applied) and immediately provide that bigger support and blocks for Cripps. Both could be very, very interesting if it could be done...

lets take the free one.

 

[DangerousD]

Don't think of it quite that way. Think instead of how getting both in means that we no longer need any midfielders in the short to medium term. That is a core in the appropriate age group to allow for an assault on the top of the ladder while Cripps and Doc are below 30.

Midfield then becomes: Cripps, Crouch, Wines, SPS, Murphy, Walsh, Fisher, Setterfield, Dow, Phelp, O'Brien, Kemp, Curnow, JSOS, Martin. There's an incredible amount of ball-winning in there, pace, power and silk. You could build a game around simply depriving the opposition from the ball in close with the attitude being to get it into the hands of SPS, O'Brien, Walsh, Gibbons, Murphy, Martin, Setterfield to kick forward.

If you're a bit slow, you've got the talls and the chops behind the ball to ensure that the setup is good there. That's a midfield capable of domination tomorrow, not in three years.

On the flip side, you have Williams who is also a FA and suits our needs, Crouch a FA who suits our needs, which would then allow us to either add another quality kid with a top 10 pick or target a player like Papley who also fits our needs.

Very unlikely to get 2, let alone 3, 2 of this 3 pre Covid would get a deal around $1M, so not sure how we would go.

 

[Gethelred]

On the flip side, you have Williams who is also a FA and suits our needs, Crouch a FA who suits our needs, which would then allow us to either add another quality kid with a top 10 pick or target a player like Papley who also fits our needs.

Very unlikely to get 2, let alone 3, 2 of this 3 pre Covid would get a deal around $1M, so not sure how we would go.

Williams I like, and would provide something different from either. My problem with Williams is that unlike both of Wines and Crouch is a) in exceedingly high demand (HBF'ers with pace and midfield chops and quality disposal would be inside the top 3 players on any list except GWS) b) be someone they'd prefer not to lose (and the AFL will find a way to pay him what he could be worth, coronavirus be damned, should he want to stay) and c) he may not want to leave in the same way that Wines is rumoured to and Crouch might.

Any 2 of the three would result in an instant improvement in output at AFL level, but the reason I want Crouch and Wines is different to why I'd be getting Williams. Both of those two can provide support for players we already have (clearances/protection for Cripps, supply for better users outside) where Williams wouldn't provide quite the same thing.

lets take the free one.

Porque no los dos?

We've developing players up the wazoo. What are we going to do with more draftees? Depending on the mooted cuts to list size, get a developing ruck and a few minnows to develop into small forward pockets/flankers from the bottom end of the draft. Develop what we've got in house, and bring in players that would allow us to develop our midfield whilst being substantially better.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

I'm actually kind of optimistic that we'd be in the running for at least one of Crouch or Wines.

There were reports last year that Wines' management had approached the club during trade period, and SOS confirmed his name came up in trade discussions - so it's not out of the question...and probably not much chance he'll be at PA next year.

With Crouch, there may be a link back to Teaguey. Our itk's reported that there were a shitload of Cows players who contacted the club during the player exodus last year. So who knows, but again not out of the question.

Of course there's 17 other sides in the comp who also may be in contention to get them - not every player who is looking to move on picks Carlton like many would like to believe - but with these two it could be a real possibility.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

2 parts of that, somehow are free agents, Brad being un-restricted and I doubt GWS would match any offer for Zac.

As long as we have cap space, we should be right in the race for those two.

Yep, the unrestricted FA for crouch is a massive plus. Agree re Williams also. GWS have too many other big names to concern themselves with Williams if he wanted to check out.

Williams would play all over the ground imo. Kid can do it all. Crouch would be a crazy good pick up also. Zero picks out the door for these 2 also

 

[HaydossJ]

I'm taking Crouch over Wines. We don't want to get caught in Melbourne's 2019 trap with Viney, Harmes, and Oliver all trying to extract it, with nobody on the outside. I'm not saying Crouch is a great outside player, but he's a much better runner than Wines and still offers size to help Cripps on the inside. Plus being a FA is a massive plus.

Cripps extractor, Crouch defensive side, and Walsh attacking.

With that being said, I'm expecting Crouch to re-sign.

 

[iAsbestos]

did getting martin lessen our need for papley?

hence we focus on pure mids?

Betts will retire?

 

[Gethelred]

2020 free agents unveiled, surprise Giant 'restricted'

Check out all the restricted and unrestricted free agents for 2020

www.afl.com.au

According to this article, Crouch is restricted.

 

[iAsbestos]

Is it too early/premature to discuss possibly trading Paddy Dow ?

I like the kid, but for whatever reason, he simply has not come on as we had hoped (mind you, our young player development has not been all that stellar either)

He may want to ask for a trade anyway (anyone know his contract status ?)

No currency.

 

[Accidental genius]

Betts will retire?

even though he will likely slow down a little i believe he will play on for another year (2021). i think our other forwards have the benefit of on-field coaching when he plays. He has been pretty durable for most of his career although his current calf issue is not a good sign.

 

[weltschmerz]

Hey all, there's a phantom draft going on over here right now, and the user picking for Carlton hasn't been online. Any keen draft watchers here want to make Carlton's selection at pick 3? Phillips and Hollands have been selected.

 

[Gethelred]

I'm taking Crouch over Wines. We don't want to get caught in Melbourne's 2019 trap with Viney, Harmes, and Oliver all trying to extract it, with nobody on the outside. I'm not saying Crouch is a great outside player, but he's a much better runner than Wines and still offers size to help Cripps on the inside. Plus being a FA is a massive plus.

Cripps extractor, Crouch defensive side, and Walsh attacking.

With that being said, I'm expecting Crouch to re-sign.

That's a fair point. I'd argue the difference is that Cripps is not like either of Crouch or Wines, and Crouch is not like Wines either. Melbourne's issue is that they lack the players to give the ball once it hits the outside; our issue is that the players with good disposal (SPS, O'Brien, Martin, Murphy) either don't get enough of it or play other roles.

But, if only one is an option, Crouch is probably the one.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Just go hard after Crouch, adelaide will want 2 1sts... but the will settle for a compo no doubt.

He would look good in navy blue!

 

[DangerousD]

Williams I like, and would provide something different from either. My problem with Williams is that unlike both of Wines and Crouch is a) in exceedingly high demand (HBF'ers with pace and midfield chops and quality disposal would be inside the top 3 players on any list except GWS) b) be someone they'd prefer not to lose (and the AFL will find a way to pay him what he could be worth, coronavirus be damned, should he want to stay) and c) he may not want to leave in the same way that Wines is rumoured to and Crouch might.

Any 2 of the three would result in an instant improvement in output at AFL level, but the reason I want Crouch and Wines is different to why I'd be getting Williams. Both of those two can provide support for players we already have (clearances/protection for Cripps, supply for better users outside) where Williams wouldn't provide quite the same thing.

Porque no los dos?

We've developing players up the wazoo. What are we going to do with more draftees? Depending on the mooted cuts to list size, get a developing ruck and a few minnows to develop into small forward pockets/flankers from the bottom end of the draft. Develop what we've got in house, and bring in players that would allow us to develop our midfield whilst being substantially better.

Touché

briefly on point B raised above, I’m not sure I buy in to this line anymore, sure it may be happening in some form, but I can’t see how it continues to, especially if it’s growing. Jeremy Cameron is a FA this year and Whitfield and Cogs were signed to long term deals last year. I think Kelly is also out of contract too.

I just don’t see 17 clubs standing by in silence as they try to recruit players and have a team getting huge assistance outside the cap, with no end in sight.

I only see Williams thinking of leaving, if he is offered a garbage deal by the Giants, due to going all out on other priorities, a team would then have to offer considerable overs to tempt him, as with most free agents.

 

[Gethelred]

Touché

briefly on point B raised above, I’m not sure I buy in to this line anymore, sure it may be happening in some form, but I can’t see how it continues to, especially if it’s growing. Jeremy Cameron is a FA this year and Whitfield and Cogs were signed to long term deals last year. I think Kelly is also out of contract too.

I just don’t see 17 clubs standing by in silence as they try to recruit players and have a team getting huge assistance outside the cap, with no end in sight.

I only see Williams thinking of leaving, if he is offered a garbage deal by the Giants, due to going all out on other priorities, a team would then have to offer considerable overs to tempt him, as with most free agents.

You're certainly right about Cameron (with Greene already having accepted a renegotiated contract halfway through, to keep him at the club) so there will be a ceiling to what they can spend, in theory.

However, we know that the AFL wants them to win a flag. They don't care how they do it, or how long it takes, it's what they want. They have sufficient historical precedent in new teams that have won flags being more secure than teams which haven't (WC, Brisbane, Sydney, Adelaide, Port) regardless of other factors (and yes, I realise that there are considerable other factors involved!) and this will make their commitment difficult to budge. The only thing that would stop the AFL interceding in this way would be the financial realities of a post-Coronavirus world, IMO; the clubs can kick up all the fuss they like, the AFL pays the players and unless they want to leave and try to take on the AFL alone it simply isn't happening. Only if they genuinely do not have the money to spend would they decide not to continue to play around the salary cap with their interstate project clubs in GWS and GC.

Were I them, I would simply inform the PA and the clubs that all contracts are put on ice, extended on their current terms until the end of this year and let the list managers sort things out.

 

[Jimmae]

I wanted us to rookie Zurhaar.

****ing tired of being right

 

[Accidental genius]

I wanted us to rookie Zurhaar.

******* tired of being right

I sometimes wonder how much time our scouters/recruiters spend on identifying talent. I had no idea who he was (probably like most) until I saw him play for the Roos. Can’t get them all but he was a clear miss.

 

[Jeremias]

I sometimes wonder how much time our scouters/recruiters spend on identifying talent. I had no idea who he was (probably like most) until I saw him play for the Roos. Can’t get them all but he was a clear miss.

Why single out our recruiters? They have done a terrific job over the past 5 or so years in identifying talent.

17 clubs "missed" Zurhaar - and even North Melbourne overlooked him a number of times, in favour of some players who are no longer in the AFL system.

Every single year there are some who slide but develop well, and others picked early who do not make the grade. That is the very nature of drafting, it is hardly an unusual occurrence.

We did pretty well out of that draft with SPS, Fisher and Williamson.

 

[Accidental genius]

Why single out our recruiters? They have done a terrific job over the past 5 or so years in identifying talent.

17 clubs "missed" Zurhaar - and even North Melbourne overlooked him a number of times, in favour of some players who are no longer in the AFL system.

Every single year there are some who slide but develop well, and others picked early who do not make the grade. That is the very nature of drafting, it is hardly an unusual occurrence.

We did pretty well out of that draft with SPS, Fisher and Williamson.

I think we did very well in the afl drafts since sos took over. We now have lots of talent.

We could be better in the rookie drafts though.

 

[true blue19]

I would go after Viney before Crouch and Wines.