List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[norway blue]

I dunno why so many on this board are cooling on Setterfield on the basis of a reasonably underwhelming pre-season and a down game against Richmond to which he was again played out of position. He is still a young guy finding his feet at AFL level after suffering a serious injury early on his career, and having only just completed his first full season.

The expectations on these guys has to be consistent with their experience and the role they are being expected to play in contrast with the position they will eventually settle into. I have no idea why we are persisting with him on a forward flank, but if it's a directive then we have to accept he's going to have down games, as all young players do.

It's the same for Walsh. We treat him like he's a seasoned midfielder because he mostly plays like one, but he's still a second year player. He's also going to have average games every now and then, but the flipside is he will actually soon start building on those few dominant performances last season and even start exceeding them. Is anyone really going to be surprised when he has a lazy 40 and kicks a couple of timely goals?

We took the hardest possible path, and that always amounts to some splintered development in our younger players. We wont get a real glimpse of what business as usual looks like for the squad until at least a few more years.

You nail it. Would love two more seasoned/ elites . A mid and we might have him already in the wings . And the other that completes the puzzle . Train together and build ..


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[FitzroyBlueBagger]

25yrs under games played/total... was interested in players that had played a game since being drafted just how many games played and how many missed by either injury development or both...

2012
1-(MD) Martin* 25yrs 186-83
97 games (154)
3- Plowman* 25yrs 193-90
94 games (154)

2013 DRAFT
13- Cripps 25yrs 195-93
102 games (132)

2014 DRAFT
6- Marchbank* 23yrs 193-93
48 games (110)
43- McGovern* 25yrs 191-93
64 games (110)
50- Pittonet* 23 years 202-104
7 games (110)

2015 DRAFT
1- Weitering 22yrs 196-98
76 games (88)
7- Kennedy* 23yrs 190-88
41 games (88)
10- McKay 22yrs 205-99
35 games (88)
12- Curnow 23yrs 192-96
58 games (88)
23- Cuningham 23yrs
25 games (88)
53- Silvagni 22yrs 194-90
60 games (88)

2016 DRAFT
5- Setterfield* 22yrs 192-87
20 games (66)
6- PetrevskiSeton 22yrs 182-78
64 games (66)
27- Fisher 21yrs 177-75
55 games (66)
47- Macreadie 22yrs 198-92
9 games (66)
59- Polson 22yrs 177-81
16 games (66)
61- Williamson 21yrs 190-85
17 games (66)

2017 DRAFT
3- Dow 20yrs 187-83
38 games (44)
10- O’Brien 20yrs 185-78
35 games (44)
30- DeKoning 20yrs 204-97
2 games (44)

2018 DRAFT
1- Walsh 19yrs 184-80
22 games (22)
19- Stocker 20yrs 184-83
5 games (22)
R- Gibbons 24yrs 175-73
21 games (22)

 

[Team DJ]

Clubs have already prepared for it

Won't happen

 

[reubsblues]

Clubs have already prepared for it

Ok good luck naming the 12 from our list

 

[true blue19]

We need to bring in proven talent in any position except tall defenders. If we take away our older players (Ed, Betts, Casboult, Simpson, Murphy and Kreuzer) and look at our list. We are lacking in proven talent but have truck loads of potential talent.

For me there are only 3 players that we can count on week in week out, Weitering, Jones and Cripps. There are other that aren't to far away. They are-

Docherty- my only issue is how much footy he missed and looking at player that missed a lot of footy and never get back to there best.

Walsh- he has a great first year but lots of players look like superstar in there first year and then become average footballer.

Martin- looked good against Richmond but only played 1 game in navy blue.

Plowman- defensively is great does a his job every week. But needs to improve offensively.

SPS- Consistency is the main area for SPS. But I think we need to work out is he a mid or defender. Could also be dangerous as a forward.

That gives us 8 player that aren't to far away for being A graders. The next group have a lot of talent but need more improvement before they can be classed as A graders.

If you look at Curnow, Marchbank, Macreadie, Cuningham and Williamson injuries have held them back and they need to get there bodies right and then start playing quality games consistently.


Other players need to play at there best consistently. McKay, Dow, O'Brien, McGovern and Setterfield.

JSOS, Kennedy and Stocker (you can add Dow, SPS and Setterfield here too)we need to work out there best position.

Plus the young talent in Kemp, Philip, BSOS, Ramsay and De Koning.

Our major need isn't talent, it's proven talent and players that have a drive to win.

 

[Jeremias]

Ok good luck naming the 12 from our list

Some will be unlucky, but not sure it is as difficult as you think.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Given the comprised (more than ever) nature of this year’s draft, do we hit more players from the state league or try pluck more bargain basement recruits from other AFL Clubs ?

Freo seem to have quite a few Victorian players on their list, I wouldn’t mind us trying to poach Cerra if he wanted to come home, went backwards last season, but still has a massive upside.

Also with our National Draft picks (esp our first and second rounders) should we draft for needs or take best available talent ? I tend to favour the former myself now, but I am no expert.

 

[Gethelred]

Given the comprised (more than ever) nature of this year’s draft, do we hit more players from the state league or try pluck more bargain basement recruits from other AFL Clubs ?

Freo seem to have quite a few Victorian players on their list, I wouldn’t mind us trying to poach Cerra if he wanted to come home, went backwards last season, but still has a massive upside.

Also with our National Draft picks (esp our first and second rounders) should we draft for needs or take best available talent ? I tend to favour the former myself now, but I am no expert.

Nope.

Use what capital we have at the upper end for the next two years (first and second round picks) to trade for known quantities (Cadwell, Constable, Brodie, Ian Hill, Shai Bolton, Papley, Wines, Cerra etc; and yes, these names are speculative at best) to bring in talent at the bottom/middle of our age range whilst throwing money at as many FA's as we can. If you have to use the draft, go for a developing ruck and a couple of x factor forwards that have been allowed to slide, and rely on the talent scouts and list management/development to get them going. If you don't trust list management or development (not saying you don't, just in general) then that prompts the question, much better to find out now whether they're up to it or not.

This could, provided the pieces we've already gotten are the right ones (ie, 60-80% of them come on), be the making of us. This draft is as prejudiced as any of the drafts between 2008-2012. There's opportunity there but also substantial risk; that, coupled with list downsizing spruiked by the media, could work in our favour if we play it right.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Given the comprised (more than ever) nature of this year’s draft, do we hit more players from the state league or try pluck more bargain basement recruits from other AFL Clubs ?

Freo seem to have quite a few Victorian players on their list, I wouldn’t mind us trying to poach Cerra if he wanted to come home, went backwards last season, but still has a massive upside.

Also with our National Draft picks (esp our first and second rounders) should we draft for needs or take best available talent ? I tend to favour the former myself now, but I am no expert.

Clubs will adopt different strategies depending on what they can bring in during the trade period and how many cuts they have to make.

I've been a big advocate for taking all our top end picks to the draft in recent years, but there's a strong argument to make that a greater percentage of top end talent will slip through to the second and third rounds this year given no/minimal U18's football is being played. I'm assuming that lack of U18 football will make player development considerably harder to assess.

As touched on above, if clubs potentially only take 2 picks in the draft, the best strategy this year might be to trade for known quantities with top end picks and take speculative players with high upside using picks in the 30+ range.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

You can definitely buy A graders. Freedom of movement for players now is as encouraged as its ever been.

So encouraged that when Coniglio was really thinking long and hard about moving teams the AFL thought it would be sensible to give him more coin...

Fact is, you cannot buy an "A grade midfield" (term i used). Salary cap doesn't allow a team to go buy 3 A graders.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Have a peak at Hately’s stats from his 2 pre season games for GWS as they are eye opening, I think he is one that is ready to have an immediate impact on the competition and would be a great addition to Cripps and Walsh for years to come.

Brad Crouch I’m not that keen on especially with the $$$ he is spruiking that he wants.

How much has he been asking for or spruiking as you have put it?

 

[DangerousD]

If I could only have one FA, it would be Zac Williams

If the pool was endless, it would be

Williams, Cameron, Crouch/Viney

3 would take us to a whole new level

how much $$$$ do you think we have? Is two free agents of this standard possible or one and a Papley?

 

[DangerousD]

How much has he been asking for or spruiking as you have put it?

Offer from GC last year was around $1M a year for 5 if I’m not mistaken

 

[DangerousD]

Nope.

Use what capital we have at the upper end for the next two years (first and second round picks) to trade for known quantities (Cadwell, Constable, Brodie, Ian Hill, Shai Bolton, Papley, Wines, Cerra etc; and yes, these names are speculative at best) to bring in talent at the bottom/middle of our age range whilst throwing money at as many FA's as we can. If you have to use the draft, go for a developing ruck and a couple of x factor forwards that have been allowed to slide, and rely on the talent scouts and list management/development to get them going. If you don't trust list management or development (not saying you don't, just in general) then that prompts the question, much better to find out now whether they're up to it or not.

This could, provided the pieces we've already gotten are the right ones (ie, 60-80% of them come on), be the making of us. This draft is as prejudiced as any of the drafts between 2008-2012. There's opportunity there but also substantial risk; that, coupled with list downsizing spruiked by the media, could work in our favour if we play it right.

As we don’t know what will happen with the draft, it could be 1-2 rounds or it could be unchanged and we have no idea where our picks will fall, it’s hard to decide on a strategy.

but as we have seen in the past 2 drafts, clubs will pay a premium to get ahead of a potential academy or f/s selection, so there is still good opportunities there.

I’m not sure how I feel about some of your proven quantities there, a lot of speculation in that group,but if we are talking 2nd round picks it’s a bit different

 

[Arr0w]

how much $$$$ do you think we have? Is two free agents of this standard possible or one and a Papley?

I think we have enough coin for at least 2 players of that calibre

Simmo's last year, Murph, Ed, Levi and Krooz come off their last contracts

Plenty of OOC

 

[Gethelred]

As we don’t know what will happen with the draft, it could be 1-2 rounds or it could be unchanged and we have no idea where our picks will fall, it’s hard to decide on a strategy.

but as we have seen in the past 2 drafts, clubs will pay a premium to get ahead of a potential academy or f/s selection, so there is still good opportunities there.

I’m not sure how I feel about some of your proven quantities there, a lot of speculation in that group,but if we are talking 2nd round picks it’s a bit different

When I say proven, I mean moreso than one of this year's draft crop. First round picks haven't been this speculative for 10 years.

I don't know if clubs will treat this draft normally, there's a chance some clubs will just up and refuse to value draft picks due to the degree of risk involved. We'll have to see, I guess.

 

[murphster]

Clubs will adopt different strategies depending on what they can bring in during the trade period and how many cuts they have to make.

I've been a big advocate for taking all our top end picks to the draft in recent years, but there's a strong argument to make that a greater percentage of top end talent will slip through to the second and third rounds this year given no/minimal U18's football is being played. I'm assuming that lack of U18 football will make player development considerably harder to assess.

As touched on above, if clubs potentially only take 2 picks in the draft, the best strategy this year might be to trade for known quantities with top end picks and take speculative players with high upside using picks in the 30+ range.

I think given the highly speculative nature of this draft, well outside the top 6-10 players anyway, the best option is either to trade down for multiple picks, which I think a lot of clubs will be considering which will probably make it hard to do, although a pick inside the top half dozen could end up being more valuable given the lack of clarity further down the draft, or as stated earlier use our top end picks in trades to try and maximise there value while minimising the risk, getting descent value or agreeing on that value for the pick is going to be the hard part given the current draft situation.

I think if we can find an A grade mid that is interested in coming then that would certainly be the option to take.


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[HereComesJuddy]

I think we have enough coin for at least 2 players of that calibre

Simmo's last year, Murph, Ed, Levi and Krooz come off their last contracts

Plenty of OOC

Not to mention... "who really is on big coin"?

- Cripps in 2021 i believe will be in his final year of his contract, so lets assume he was most likely front loaded so I'll go with $700k at best.

- Charlie in 2021 is into his 3rd year of a 4 year contract which was 3.2 million over the 4 years. Again, i would believe his contract would have been heavily front loaded so maybe 600k.

Is anyone else on more than 600k other than Martin in 2021? I wouldnt think so. So in my opinion, we would have at least 1.5 or so million ready to spend up at the end of this year.

Players like Dow, SPS, Setterfield, Walsh, O'Brien, Jones, Weitering could be on big money in the next few years, but if 1 of those players is on 500k next year id be beyond surprised.

Docherty and mckay i admit, i have no idea what they would be on.

But overall, firmly believe we will have plenty of coin

 

[smashbox gill]

G

Not mids, A grade mids

I know it's one game but I was bitterly disappointed with Setterfields game against Richmond, was hoping he would be the one to join Cripps and eventually Walsh.

Dow also very worrying

Need one of Dow, SPS, Setterfield to become A grade

Thats why I don’t understand people not wanting wines. Instantly becomes our 2nd best mid. We need proven experienced mids, we have talented young players but we can’t rely on them for another 2-3 years

 

[HereComesJuddy]

G

Thats why I don’t understand people not wanting wines. Instantly becomes our 2nd best mid. We need proven experienced mids, we have talented young players but we can’t rely on them for another 2-3 years

What do you think Wines would cost us?

 

[BlueJet]

What do you think Wines would cost us?

Ideally, an earlyish first rounder should do it - the problem is that Port would likely want more for their 25yo former skipper.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

What do you think Wines would cost us?

Not worth what Port would want in terms of Picks/trade collateral.

Connor Rozee on the other hand, I would sell the farm for, he is a game changing/match winning player, which Wines isn’t.
I like Ollie Wines a lot, but a club in our position, we cannot afford to pay a premium in trade value, like Essendon did for Dylan Shiel (for example)

 

[smashbox gill]

Not worth what Port would want in terms of Picks/trade collateral.

Connor Rozee on the other hand, I would sell the farm for, he is a game changing/match winning player, which Wines isn’t.
I like Ollie Wines a lot, but a club in our position, we cannot afford to pay a premium in trade value, like Essendon did for Dylan Shiel (for example)

I’d say we can. We have talent around the ground but need experience around them, especially in the midfield.
I would have loved to have seen Crouch this year, if he could put up another season without being injured he would have been a decent FA pick up. I wouldn’t take the risk now though with what salary he wants and with his injury history

 

[Eiffel 65]

Thats why I don’t understand people not wanting wines. Instantly becomes our 2nd best mid. We need proven experienced mids, we have talented young players but we can’t rely on them for another 2-3 years

Because we need to add more speed and quality kicks to our midfield, not inside grunt.

Someone like Zac Williams would be a much better fit for us as he brings the above.

Many would also hope Stocker and Dow will be starting 22 next season. Both will most likely play the role of inside mid, negating the need for Wines.

 

[briztoon]

Offer from GC last year was around $1M a year for 5 if I’m not mistaken

You’re mistaken.