List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[fnm_just a man]

3 - Dow
4 - LDu
5- Cerra
6 - Stephenson
7 - Hunter Clark
8 - Coffield
9 - Naughton
10 - Lachie O'brien

I remember this draft, and being super keen on LDU who is probably ended up a bigger bust than Dow.. With the exception of Naughton, none of these players are setting the world on fire.. and with McKay & Charlie Curnow its understandable why we didnt take Naughton.. I just think this is a pretty ordinary draft year and Paddy is being unfairly judged based on draft position.

FWIW i would give him a role to play in the midfield every game for the rest of the year, and if he comes on excellent and if he doesnt we cut our losses and look for another opportunity for him, we should be able to get an early second round pick, or potentially say Geelongs first for a swap of our 2nd, which might help us land Papley or Williams.

With all due respect, Hunter Clark is coming along very nicely and looks like being a longterm gun. Coffield also coming along nicely this year, though not to the degree of Clark.

Clark would be my first picked, Naughton a close second.

 

[rp84]

3 - Dow
4 - LDu
5- Cerra
6 - Stephenson
7 - Hunter Clark
8 - Coffield
9 - Naughton
10 - Lachie O'brien

I remember this draft, and being super keen on LDU who is probably ended up a bigger bust than Dow.. With the exception of Naughton, none of these players are setting the world on fire.. and with McKay & Charlie Curnow its understandable why we didnt take Naughton.. I just think this is a pretty ordinary draft year and Paddy is being unfairly judged based on draft position.

FWIW i would give him a role to play in the midfield every game for the rest of the year, and if he comes on excellent and if he doesnt we cut our losses and look for another opportunity for him, we should be able to get an early second round pick, or potentially say Geelongs first for a swap of our 2nd, which might help us land Papley or Williams.

Cerra is looking like an absolute gun!

 

[Tjblues]

With all due respect, Hunter Clark is coming along very nicely and looks like being a longterm gun. Coffield also coming along nicely this year, though not to the degree of Clark.

Clark would be my first picked, Naughton a close second.

Clark is sensational. St kilda definitely look to have gotten more value for their 2 in the top 10 than ours. Plenty of time for that to change, but I rate Clark as highly as just about any young player

 

[Own The Future]

3 - Dow
4 - LDu
5- Cerra
6 - Stephenson
7 - Hunter Clark
8 - Coffield
9 - Naughton
10 - Lachie O'brien

I remember this draft, and being super keen on LDU who is probably ended up a bigger bust than Dow.. With the exception of Naughton, none of these players are setting the world on fire.. and with McKay & Charlie Curnow its understandable why we didnt take Naughton.. I just think this is a pretty ordinary draft year and Paddy is being unfairly judged based on draft position.

FWIW i would give him a role to play in the midfield every game for the rest of the year, and if he comes on excellent and if he doesnt we cut our losses and look for another opportunity for him, we should be able to get an early second round pick, or potentially say Geelongs first for a swap of our 2nd, which might help us land Papley or Williams.

Disagree that this draft was ordinary.
I am no expert, but I am a big fan of the 2 StK boys Clark and Coffield. Coffield looks the old school HBF - staying one kick behind the ball in a sweeper role, intercept marking and setting up the play. Clark is the more attacking of the 2, takes the game on and throws his weight around.
Not out on Dow yet, as I see some real potential there - particularly with his increased strength in the contest. He just needs to have an injury free offseason and devote himself to building the tank to be able to chase and give repeat efforts.

 

[rp84]

Well that's three then, not taking into account retirements. If this were an ordinary year we'd get there on that alone.

It still astounds me that the AFL is considering cutting lists sizes.

How about we do the grandfinal in Perth were you're likely to get tens of millions more dollars because you'll have up to 60,000 actual fans paying $400 plus, whereas in brisbane you're likely to have 10k fans and 20k free tickets handed out if Brisbane arent there (and even still).

The money the AFL could have made by having the game in Perth could have easily covered the cost of retinaing lists at the same size.

I feel for players like Fraser Phillips or Matty Kreuzer who couldfind themselves off of a list because of the actions of Gil.

Two things:

1. The 30k will easily be sold in Brisbane
2. QLD Labor gov apparently paid some exorbitant amount to hold it.

Trust me, they ain't taking a loss by having it in Brisbane. Ridiculous to imply they would be.

 

[bigm386]

Disagree that this draft was ordinary.
I am no expert, but I am a big fan of the 2 StK boys Clark and Coffield. Coffield looks the old school HBF - staying one kick behind the ball in a sweeper role, intercept marking and setting up the play. Clark is the more attacking of the 2, takes the game on and throws his weight around.
Not out on Dow yet, as I see some real potential there - particularly with his increased strength in the contest. He just needs to have an injury free offseason and devote himself to building the tank to be able to chase and give repeat efforts.

I think most drafts look average at the moment because the 2018 draft looks like an absolute super draft. Most of the top 10 from 2018 could have been pick one in previous drafts imo.

 

[fnm_just a man]

Clark is sensational. St kilda definitely look to have gotten more value for their 2 in the top 10 than ours. Plenty of time for that to change, but I rate Clark as highly as just about any young player

Yeah, he’s beautiful to watch is Clark. Different styles (chalk and cheese almost), and Coffield not at the same level, but both very effective in their own way.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

With all due respect, Hunter Clark is coming along very nicely and looks like being a longterm gun. Coffield also coming along nicely this year, though not to the degree of Clark.

Clark would be my first picked, Naughton a close second.

I’d take Naughton but both could be pretty special

 

[fnm_just a man]

I’d take Naughton but both could be pretty special

Would love to be able to inject a bit of Naughton’s competitive spirit into Harry! If Naughton gets his kicking going to an AFL average level, he and Charlie (assuming Charlie returns the player he was) will be fighting it out for best KPF in the game, imo. Wouldn’t be surprised to see either or both roaming Kouta style either.

 

[thylacine60]

We're just being cautious and making sure he's working his way back from injury, he'll be back in the side soon enough.

He better hurry.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Two things:

1. The 30k will easily be sold in Brisbane
2. QLD Labor gov apparently paid some exorbitant amount to hold it.

Trust me, they ain't taking a loss by having it in Brisbane. Ridiculous to imply they would be.

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[HBF]

That's fine and it may just be that he doesn't make the grade.

But to make that call at 20 is way, way too premature.

What part of Dow's game are you hanging your hat on?

 

[CJMB]

Two things:

1. The 30k will easily be sold in Brisbane
2. QLD Labor gov apparently paid some exorbitant amount to hold it.

Trust me, they ain't taking a loss by having it in Brisbane. Ridiculous to imply they would be.

Wasn't there further issues with getting the teams & staff into WA as McGowan was holding strong on their border restrictions?

 

[katmanblue]

We are talking about Mitch vs JSOS here

I was using the others to illustrate the point that Gov is a smart forward.

SOS is a smart footballer, but I am not convinced about his forward craft (I do dicpise that word).

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[katmanblue]

Schumacher too was a young developing kid. The only thing stopping Dow following in his footsteps is our investment in him.

Dow doesn't have the tank to play midfield, and his defensive efforts are a liability wherever we try to hide him on field.

The Lions copped the loss in value and turned Schache into Bailey, who is contributing weekly for them. We need to do the same with Dow.

Until he improves his defensive efforts, I don't think you can play him and Cripps in the same midfield.

Opposition would murder us on the spread as soon as they got their hand on the ball. Consistently having the outnumber.

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[Kreuuuzeurns]

What part of Dow's game are you hanging your hat on?

I think his immediate burst of pace and side step alone make persisting worth while. He can find enough ball when playing in the midfield (his position).

With some size and some improved game sense he will hopefully become more composed. Currently he knows he can’t shrug the tackles so he looks to dish it off as quick as he gets it.

I think the hope is he becomes our own mini Danger. He’ll never have great forward ability or the consistent brilliance but if he becomes a point of difference as the 3rd or 4th in line we’ve done alright.

In an interview on SEN a few months ago Diesel noted Paddy was still very immature both physically and mentally and he has a lot of development left in him. It’s very rare that kids as highly rated as him become complete busts. I reckon we can still expect him to be a long term member of the 22, just not as the start mid we had hoped.

 

[HBF]

I think his immediate burst of pace and side step alone make persisting worth while. He can find enough ball when playing in the midfield (his position).

With some size and some improved game sense he will hopefully become more composed. Currently he knows he can’t shrug the tackles so he looks to dish it off as quick as he gets it.

I think the hope is he becomes our own mini Danger. He’ll never have great forward ability or the consistent brilliance but if he becomes a point of difference as the 3rd or 4th in line we’ve done alright.

In an interview on SEN a few months ago Diesel noted Paddy was still very immature both physically and mentally and he has a lot of development left in him. It’s very rare that kids as highly rated as him become complete busts. I reckon we can still expect him to be a long term member of the 22, just not as the start mid we had hoped.

Thats a fair response.
I just don't see it with Dow. I do hope he makes it, but I feel like with what we have seen so far its going to be an up hill battle.

 

[Jeremias]

What part of Dow's game are you hanging your hat on?

There are a few points with Dow:

1) He has no issue finding the ball

Averaged 14 touches in his first year, and bumped that up to 17.5 in his second season before being moved out of the midfield completely, which understandably coincided with a nose dive in his numbers (averaged 10 disposals per game after Teague took over).

By way of comparison, Dangerfield averaged 6 touches in his first season (2 games) and 13 touches in his second season (21 games).

2) His contested work is excellent for a player of his age and build

Dow may now be 20 but he has looked a twig compared to the mature bodies he has competed against for much of his career to date.
He was asked to carry a pretty heavy load across the first 18 months of his career and he more than held his own in doing so.

He will not lose the ability in the contest but rather with more experience and a bigger frame I see this as an area he will only continue to improve in, if allowed to do so. Add that contested ability to a serious burst of pace and a great side-step and...there is something to work with here. There always has been.

3) His retention numbers are absolutely fine

Dow is a very poor kick in open play and that's certainly something he needs to continue to work on, but some of the best players in our game aren't exactly great kicks.

Dangerfield, Fyfe, Cripps are all superstars and yet...none are great kicks. In fact none are even good kicks. Dow's retention numbers are OK regardless, and very comparable to the best in his position.

At the end of the day we're talking about a 20 year old kid here. He's young and inexperienced and out of sorts at the moment but it is WAY too early to make the call to get rid of him. I actually can't believe some are seriously considering it.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Thats a fair response.
I just don't see it with Dow. I do hope he makes it, but I feel like with what we have seen so far its going to be an up hill battle.

I don’t disagree. He‘s a fair way off what he projected to become. His lack of a 2nd position hurts our ability to develop him and I don’t think we have the luxury to leave him as a pure on baller even thoughts that probably what he needs.

The good news is it can all change very quickly, especially for a player who mostly relies on athletic traits. His burst of pace and ability to shrug the tackle was a huge asset at under 18 level, he now needs to get that up to AFL standard. Probably two seasons off making a call for mine, unless an offer we can’t refuse is made in the meantime.

 

[AB_Blue]

Thats a fair response.
I just don't see it with Dow. I do hope he makes it, but I feel like with what we have seen so far its going to be an up hill battle.

I know they don’t do this anymore but a run with role for a week or 2 wouldn’t hurt him.

Plenty of better players than Dow (at his age) have tagged a good player for a week or 2 to gain some understanding of what the best do each week

I understand he is dropped/rested this week but I would recall him for Adelaide and sit him on Slone or Crouch. What’s the worst that could happen?


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[HBF]

There are a few points with Dow:

1) He has no issue finding the ball

Averaged 14 touches in his first year, and bumped that up to 17.5 in his second season before being moved out of the midfield completely, which understandably coincided with a nose dive in his numbers (averaged 10 disposals per game after Teague took over).

By way of comparison, Dangerfield averaged 6 touches in his first season (2 games) and 13 touches in his second season (21 games).

2) His contested work is excellent for a player of his age and build

Dow may now be 20 but he has looked a twig compared to the mature bodies he has competed against for much of his career to date.
He was asked to carry a pretty heavy load across the first 18 months of his career and he more than held his own in doing so.

He will not lose the ability in the contest but rather with more experience and a bigger frame I see this as an area he will only continue to improve in, if allowed to do so. Add that contested ability to a serious burst of pace and a great side-step and...there is something to work with here. There always has been.

3) His retention numbers are absolutely fine

Dow is a very poor kick in open play and that's certainly something he needs to continue to work on, but some of the best players in our game aren't exactly great kicks.

Dangerfield, Fyfe, Cripps are all superstars and yet...none are great kicks. In fact none are even good kicks. Dow's retention numbers are OK regardless, and very comparable to the best in his position.

At the end of the day we're talking about a 20 year old kid here. He's young and inexperienced and out of sorts at the moment but it is WAY too early to make the call to get rid of him. I actually can't believe some are seriously considering it.

If Dow can turn it around then thats great. Problem is he has come in for a two week block, and then straight out of the team. I feel like his development is being mis-managed because of this. The club had the perfect chance to give Cripps a week off and let Dow go in the middle to see how he went.

I understand that some of his issues are out of his control such as being injured, however unlike alot of others young players on our list I just don't see anything that leads me to believe he's ever going to be of AFL standard.

 

[Eiffel 65]

If Dow can turn it around then thats great. Problem is he has come in for a two week block, and then straight out of the team. I feel like his development is being mis-managed because of this. The club had the perfect chance to give Cripps a week off and let Dow go in the middle to see how he went.

I understand that some of his issues are out of his control such as being injured, however unlike alot of others young players on our list I just don't see anything that leads me to believe he's ever going to be of AFL standard.

You're overthinking it.

2 years ago, everyone on here was calling for Weitering to be traded for a pack of chips. Things weren't looking great. He even got sent back to the VFL.

Now we're potentially looking at an AA CHB 2 years later.

A lot can change over a preseason. Just give it time.

 

[HBF]

You're overthinking it.

2 years ago, everyone on here was calling for Weitering to be traded for a pack of chips. Things weren't looking great. He even got sent back to the VFL.

Now we're potentially looking at an AA CHB 2 years later.

A lot can change over a preseason. Just give it time.

I feel like i'm not. Firstly, I was never in the camp that wanted Weitering traded.
By now all of our younger kids had shown something, but with Dow I can't see anything. All I see are missed passes, lacking any sort of endurance and the fact that he can't play in another position.

 

[Eiffel 65]

I feel like i'm not. Firstly, I was never in the camp that wanted Weitering traded.
By now all of our younger kids had shown something, but with Dow I can't see anything. All I see are missed passes, lacking any sort of endurance and the fact that he can't play in another position.

Missed passes can be attributed to exhaustion through lack of endurance.

A lot can change in a short space of time.

Needs a massive preseason heading into 2021 though.

 

[95blues]

I know they don’t do this anymore but a run with role for a week or 2 wouldn’t hurt him.

Plenty of better players than Dow (at his age) have tagged a good player for a week or 2 to gain some understanding of what the best do each week

I understand he is dropped/rested this week but I would recall him for Adelaide and sit him on Slone or Crouch. What’s the worst that could happen?


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I'm fairly sure they started him running with pendlebury last week. Held him to about 7 possessions in the first 3 minutes