List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Bryce Bubbles]

Interesting how the commentators repeatedly said tonight that our biggest problem is our ball movement and transition inside forward 50.

Never at any stage did they say our #1 priority is a small forward.

Also note the commentators really rate Fisher as a small forward.

We should be avoiding Papley at all costs. Where was he when the game was on the line. Absolutely nowhere!

not sure why they rate fish. Still a woeful kick...

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Your expected output is not matching reality.

This is the exact same situation as trading for Mitch McGovern.

Whatever way you look at the McGovern trade, he was never worth anywhere near what we paid for him. We gave up a lot based on potential for a player at 25 years of age who had only played 48 games.

Just take the Papley blinkers off for a second and reflect on our on field performances. We have a small forward. His name is Zac Fisher and he's currently playing better football than Papley. Did you not see his opportunistic goal tonight?

If you cant see the difference in the opportunities the two players had tonight you mustn’t have been watching. Fisher would’ve done 0 in the Swans forward line tonight, it’s down to opinion on how Papley would’ve done in ours. You only have to look at their heat maps to see the massive difference

I don’t see Fisher as a long term pure small forward. I see him as a Shane Edwards type half forward flanker with midfield spurts. Cuningham similar if not more midfield.

McGovern is irrelevant. We haven’t overpaid for Papley yet and based on last season we won’t be.

 

[Stamos]

We could have had Duursma

How do you figure?

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Anyone trading SPS?

Yes for a first papley and Parker I would entertain the idea arrow

 

[Eiffel 65]

Good small forwards mean it is less important how the ball enters 50. Did we crumb a pack all night?
I really like Fisher, but he's not enough. And I'm hopeful for Owies, but there's no way we can rest our hope on him yet.
We are severely lacking small forwards who can pressure the opposition in the most meaningful way, which is kicking goals, particularly from the crumb.

If you can find another good one who wants to come to us and would be cheaper than Papley, by all means make a suggestion. But it is not simply a midfield issue.

Quinton Narkle. Could be gettable and highly talented. Would be great for us as he's more suited to being a pressure forward than the main target.

If the GWS cap squeeze is as bad as what they're saying, Ian Hill could be a chance to leave too despite being contracted. Whether he is or not, the reality is they'll be losing at least one star player. That decision will come down to their priorities.

Once again, I'm going to re-watch the game at some stage tomorrow, but I don't recall Papley crumbing a pack tonight either. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that one, but even if he did, I just didn't see him as having any impact on the game. He definitely had far less impact than Fisher. As for Owies, he will only improve with more game time.

 

[Eiffel 65]

not sure why they rate fish. Still a woeful kick...

Have you seen Papley's kicking?

 

[Eiffel 65]

If you cant see the difference in the opportunities the two players had tonight you mustn’t have been watching. Fisher would’ve done 0 in the Swans forward line tonight, it’s down to opinion on how Papley would’ve done in ours. You only have to look at their heat maps to see the massive difference

I don’t see Fisher as a long term pure small forward. I see him as a Shane Edwards type half forward flanker with midfield spurts. Cuningham similar if not more midfield.

McGovern is irrelevant. We haven’t overpaid for Papley yet and based on last season we won’t be.

I was watching the game and can tell you that Sydney's ball movement inside forward 50 was very good in the first half. Sydney had a disposal efficiency of >70%. The quality of their entry was not the reason why Papley didn't kick any goals.

As for McGovern, he is a relevant example. It's an example of us overpaying based on potential output. Should we chase Papley, the same will happen. We'll be paying him based on improved output, not what he actually does.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I was watching the game and can tell you that Sydney's ball movement inside forward 50 was very good in the first half. Sydney had a disposal efficiency of >70%. The quality of their entry was not the reason why Papley didn't kick any goals.

As for McGovern, he is a relevant example. It's an example of us overpaying based on potential output. Should we chase Papley, the same will happen. We'll be paying him based on improved output, not what he actually does.

Their ball movement was fantastic for during the first quarter. That doesn’t exactly benefit an opportunistic small forward though. They were hitting up leads and taking contested marks. By the end of the game our disposal efficiency was 68%, not a considerable sifference

I think the +16 inside 50s and our absolute forward half dominance paints a clearer picture. 80% of Papley’s disposals we’re outside 50, Fisher’s was closer to a 50/50 split and in the end he actually got more footy inside 50.

I recommend having a look at the heat maps of not only Fish and Papley but also both teams. Really shows how inefficient we were.

 

[BlueJet]

Quinton Narkle. Could be gettable and highly talented. Would be great for us as he's more suited to being a pressure forward than the main target.

If the GWS cap squeeze is as bad as what they're saying, Ian Hill could be a chance to leave too despite being contracted. Whether he is or not, the reality is they'll be losing at least one star player. That decision will come down to their priorities.

Once again, I'm going to re-watch the game at some stage tomorrow, but I don't recall Papley crumbing a pack tonight either. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that one, but even if he did, I just didn't see him as having any impact on the game. He definitely had far less impact than Fisher. As for Owies, he will only improve with more game time.

Realistically, at this point I think that people like their idea of Papley more than anything he's actually doing.

 

[Stamos]

AFL moves to address player behaviour, key dates unveiled in post-season roadmap

AFL and clubs working together to mitigate potential behavioural risk of players who intend to stay in Queensland

www.afl.com.au

• The 2020 Free Agency Period would begin, as usual, six days after the Grand Final - on Friday October 30, and run until the following Friday (November 6)
• The Trade Period would open on Wednesday November 4, and close Thursday November 12
• The NAB AFL National Draft would be held "week commencing December 7" but was yet to be given an official timeslot
• Playing list sizes, as previously forecast, would be cut in coming seasons, but that the reductions would likely be completed over a number of seasons. Negotiations with the AFL Players Association were continuing toward reaching a number for 2021

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Realistically, at this point I think that people like their idea of Papley more than anything he's actually doing.

I’m a fan of Papley at the right price but more just want to fill the small forward role in general.

I don’t think Fish is the answer, long term I see him further up the ground. Cuners similar. I enjoyed Owies tonight but he’ll be lucky to retain his spot on the list at this stage. Eddie is pushing 57 now.

It’s a position we’ve neglected for a while now and I’d rather we go with something somewhat proven than an 18 year old kid.

 

[Stamos]

I feel dirty doing this, but probably worth posting

 

[THE_GUN]

We've got other areas of the ground we need to improve. A small forward is not a high priority.

Zac Fisher is really starting to come on as our small forward. Owies looked lively tonight too.

Papley has kicked 3 goals since round 8. He's massively overrated and pumped up by the media because they sense a 'blockbuster trade' for someone who's merely a good player.

Honestly, the guys in the media saying we need a small forward and is our #1 priority have no idea what we've got on our list.

Even just look at tonight's game:

Zac Fisher: 16 disposals, 1 tackle and 1 goal.
Tom Papley: 10 disposals, 1 tackle and 0 goals.

If we trade for Papley, we'll be buying at his highest value and probably get burnt in the long term, just like what's happening now with McGovern.

But you are looking at this the wrong way and need to consider the alrenative , How many more young players does Carlton need ? How much longer do you continue on the build ? When does players like Cripps start playing finals ? How long does young talent remain whilst still stocking up on talent ?

It gets to a stage before you know it these players get restless and other clubs come calling and for Carlton to hold these players the dream of playing finals and winning flags need to be within reach before they get disillusioned.

Papley is not 'Just' a small foward he has ability to play up the ground and plays high getting involved and effectively runs through the midfield in a way, Also has the talent and ability to kick 40+ goals a year in a regular season.

From where i sit i see carlton in a very similar position to Richmond 2016 , We knew we had the top talent but needed the pieces to improve the mid section of our playing 22 Rance / Wietering Curnow/Martin(sort of) Cotchin/Cripps Jack/Harry Martin/Edwards etc but we needed the finishing pieces

Richmond paid #6 for Prestia / Papley as well as getting Nankervis and Caddy which you Guys dont need but do need players like Williams.

This year needs to be a year where Carlton go all in and go after Williams & Papley to elevate them into finals.

Cannot keep relying on organic growth from within. Time is Now

 

[THE_GUN]

Did you see McAdam tonight? He was electric. Exactly the type of player we need at the moment.

Unfortunately we gave him up like a set of steak knives in that trade.

We could have had Duursma and McAdam should we have sat on our hands and not traded with the Crows.

I agree with this post and wont go through old post but did mention at the Time, Not sure why Carlton are so obsessed with MM and McAdam fits perfectly into your needs and wouldn't have to trade and could use the picks whilst saving the $$$ for prepaying players that are young and talented.

The thing with MM is that he looks and plays in a similar way to his brother but nowhere near as good but their 'Style' looks similar and makes you think he 'could become the same' but totally different level. mind you in saying this he would probably play well at west coast with their game plan and the way they play his brother across HB intercepting

 

[BlueJet]

I’m a fan of Papley at the right price but more just want to fill the small forward role in general.

I don’t think Fish is the answer, long term I see him further up the ground. Cuners similar. I enjoyed Owies tonight but he’ll be lucky to retain his spot on the list at this stage. Eddie is pushing 57 now.

It’s a position we’ve neglected for a while now and I’d rather we go with something somewhat proven than an 18 year old kid.

That's completely fine, it doesn't mean that we need to pay overs to secure one though.
A star small forward is a luxury, not an essential component of a list build.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Isn't McGovern's contract up this year anyway?

 

[Foucault1989]

If Plowman picks up Papley tonight, it will be like the Hindenburg disaster “oh the humanity”.

This aged well...

 

[chunkylover53]

this place has too big a hard-on for papley. he's good but ya dreaming if he fixes our problems and is worth putting up one of our youngsters for.

whats govs contract status?

 

[slashin_velvet]

this place has too big a hard-on for papley. he's good but ya dreaming if he fixes our problems and is worth putting up one of our youngsters for.

whats govs contract status?

Last night was his time to shine in front of our supporters and he didn't fire a shot. Not worth two 1sts, and if we dont make finals, not worth our top 10 pick without something coming back.

 

[Coona Blues]

I feel dirty doing this, but probably worth posting

Would not be tidy, but I would prefer the AFL adopt a figure to reach by say 2022. Lists are too varied, clubs are at different stages. We have some
highly promising kids that would be potentially cut prematurely due to keeping a semblance of experience that would be phased out within a couple of
years.

Gold Coast has a monster list numbers wise and should not have to cut to the bone. The AFL should set monetary limits for this year and allow flexibility in
numbers. Clubs should be able to reduce by a couple or by the ultimate target of six or so at such short notice. Many posters are enjoying the offerings of Cottrell, Polson and Owies, massive list cuts would severely threaten these lesser skilled, heart and soul types against some of the first years or a developing KPP like BSOS (or even Finbar, who is better than most think, despite being a 'tweener) I want skilled Honey, Philp, Ramsay, Phillips types retained. A year
long "grace period" dropping, say three overall would be sensible.

 

[Ricky Mott]

A win without Gibbons is a list clogger.
Who picked TDK and Cottrell? Was it Agresta Llyod or Liddle?

 

[slashin_velvet]

Would not be tidy, but I would prefer the AFL adopt a figure to reach by say 2022. Lists are too varied, clubs are at different stages. We have some
highly promising kids that would be potentially cut prematurely due to keeping a semblance of experience that would be phased out within a couple of
years.

Gold Coast has a monster list numbers wise and should not have to cut to the bone. The AFL should set monetary limits for this year and allow flexibility in
numbers. Clubs should be able to reduce by a couple or by the ultimate target of six or so at such short notice. Many posters are enjoying the offerings of Cottrell, Polson and Owies, massive list cuts would severely threaten these lesser skilled, heart and soul types against some of the first years or a developing KPP like BSOS (or even Finbar, who is better than most think, despite being a 'tweener) I want skilled Honey, Philp, Ramsay, Phillips types retained. A year
long "grace period" dropping, say three overall would be sensible.

Yeah, cut the salary cap and drop the minimum number of players required. Give clubs flexibility.

 

[bigm386]

Footy and the farm: Younger Walsh sets his sights on an AFL career

Henry Walsh, the younger brother of Carlton star Sam, is a leading ruck prospect in this year's NAB AFL Draft

www.afl.com.au

Would love the story if we pick up Sam's little (big) brother.

But we need another Ruckman on the list in my opinion. Sound like a great kid and if he has 50% of the application Sam has he will be best 22

 

[Arr0w]

A win without Gibbons is a list clogger.
Who picked TDK and Cottrell? Was it Agresta Llyod or Liddle?

Haha

 

[Sheephead]

Cottrell - Can’t mark and can’t kick.
Owies - doesn’t chase, won’t tackle.
TDK - no good below his knees

We have no depth.

SARCASM (and BS) is my forte. Fair game by the 3 in shite condition.

And SPS showed his class in the wet. No sarcasm.